GP12 tested today at Jerez

Keshav · Apr 11, 2011

J4rn0 said:
So now not just Rossi but Ducati as a company, and possibly the whole of Italy (and why not, Spain) are just a big cheating machine? And who would be the victims of such a huge conspiracy...? Honda? Yamaha? Japan?

I'm expecting almost anything at this point --even little green humanoids providing Rossi with illegal alien technology to give him some unfair advantage so that boppers on Mars can cheer their idol...

Btw, Kesh -- we have had only Euros here in Eurozone for 10 years now

In what way does the large size of Ducati rule out it being corrupt? In what way would the two be mutually incompatible?

This is a ........ distinction you're making. Who said anything about the whole of Italy? The thing about the Medicis was clearly

a jest. You keep making these side-bar distractions to divert away from simple questions to which you won't give simple answers.

The victim - as it were - would be the Japanese - who seem to be abiding by the rules. That has been the central theme

of this controversy from the beginning. How can you pretend not to know this?

Yes I'm familiar with the Euro. I was just taking poetic license. Like when I call you Paisan - tho in fact I have no idea if you're really

Italian. In any event the mode of currency is irrelevant - as are most of your obfuscations, red-herring arguments and divergences from the topic at hand.

If you have any real integrity - answer the first two questions in this post without evading or changing the subject.

digger · Apr 11, 2011

tin hats at the ready boys, its a conspiracy!

bluegreen · Apr 11, 2011

Mental Anarchist said:
The use of the terms "might" and "apparently" are hardly conclusive. What I also find disturbing is that you could hardly call the bike that VR rode a GP12 considering Ducati themselves have pointed out that the GP12 is still only in the design faze. I doubt that the manufacturers agreed that slipping the 2012 spec engine into the 2011 chassis would be considered a testing the GP12. After all it is Dorna that is arguing that an engine does not make a motorcycle and it is the chassis that is the motorcycle.

What I will say right now is that if Honda, Yamaha and Suzuki come out and ratify what Ducati has done I will offer up my humblest apologies to everyone. I can assume that if they do not you will be prepared to do the same thing and will join me in denouncing this whole saga as cheating.

Deal

As far as the GP12 is concerned. It looks like it's in a bit of a grey area. Although I'm inclined to think the other manufactures will speak up if they feel any wrong doing has occurred. You don't spend billions of yen trying to win something then stand idly by and watch one team cheat. I'm taking a wait and see approach.

Ducati certainly isn't trying to hide anything. Maybe they decided to gamble their reputation on being able to cheat out in the open. Or maybe they were just the first team to test.

Mental Anarchist · Apr 11, 2011

bluegreen said:
Deal

As far as the GP12 is concerned. It looks like it's in a bit of a grey area. Although I'm inclined to think the other manufactures will speak up if they feel any wrong doing has occurred. You don't spend billions of yen trying to win something then stand idly by and watch one team cheat. I'm taking a wait and see approach.

Ducati certainly isn't trying to hide anything. Maybe they decided to gamble their reputation on being able to cheat out in the open. Or maybe they were just the first team to test.

I think you are right there. The risk is also quite low as most Rossi fans, which is the majority of fans, are well proven to turn a blind eye to anything controversial when it comes to Rossi as well as Dorna who as we all know would not call the police if Rossi committed murder.

Ducati knows what it is like to battle against the Rossi factor as they lost all the hard work they put into developing the Bridgestones. They just bought the Rossi factor for 15million euro's and it looks to me like they decided to take their newly acquired balance of power out for a spin.

J4rn0 · Apr 11, 2011

Keshav said:
In what way does the large size of Ducati rule out it being corrupt? In what way would the two be mutually incompatible?

This is a ........ distinction you're making. Who said anything about the whole of Italy? The thing about the Medicis was clearly

a jest. You keep making these side-bar distractions to divert away from simple questions to which you won't give simple answers.

The victim - as it were - would be the Japanese - who seem to be abiding by the rules. That has been the central theme

of this controversy from the beginning. How can you pretend not to know this?

Yes I'm familiar with the Euro. I was just taking poetic license. Like when I call you Paisan - tho in fact I have no idea if you're really

Italian. In any event the mode of currency is irrelevant - as are most of your obfuscations, red-herring arguments and divergences from the topic at hand.

If you have any real integrity - answer the first two questions in this post without evading or changing the subject.

1. Are you trying to insinuate that Ducati are not as fair or correct as any other manufacturer?! And on what do you base such an allegation?

2. Who are you to judge personal integrity anyway.

3. Your speculations are full to the brim of commonplace silly notions that, again (I'm sorry) smell of ignorance. Italians are all mafia? of course! And Japanese are all honorable samurais (Yakuza is as honorable as Mafia anyway). Go on, tell us that Germans are all Nazis and Americans are all ignorant Imperialists. And what about India -- an ocean of corruption?

Grow up boy, get a life. In all countries the majority of people are basically honest, work hard, have children, take them to the park, care for the values of life. Just for your information

Mental Anarchist · Apr 11, 2011

J4rn0 said:
1. Are you trying to insinuate that Ducati are not as fair or correct as any other manufacturer?! And on what do you base such an allegation?

2. Who are you to judge personal integrity anyway.

3. Your speculations are full to the brim of commonplace silly notions that, again (I'm sorry) smell of ignorance. Italians are all mafia? of course! And Japanese are all honorable samurais (Yakuza is as honorable as Mafia anyway). Go on, tell us that Germans are all Nazis and Americans are all ignorant Imperialists. And what about India -- an ocean of corruption?

Grow up boy, get a life. In all countries the majority of people are basically honest, work hard, have children, take them to the park, care for the values of life. Just for your information

Do you forget the unfair advantage that Ducati had in 2007?

Goatboy · Apr 11, 2011

So four days on & not a word from any other team, or associated rider, or indeed anyone. Perhaps they don't use the internet?

J4rn0 · Apr 11, 2011

Mental Anarchist said:
Do you forget the unfair advantage that Ducati had in 2007?

Yes of course, the hidden fuel reservoir...

J4rn0 · Apr 11, 2011

Goatboy said:
So four days on & not a word from any other team, or associated rider, or indeed anyone. Perhaps they don't use the internet?

Wait, as soon as they read this forum they'll realize that Ducati has been cheating on them and then you'll see...

michaelm · Apr 11, 2011

Goatboy said:
So four days on & not a word from any other team, or associated rider, or indeed anyone. Perhaps they don't use the internet?

In a sport where moving the fuel tank 2cm has been known to drastically change the balance of a bike, an engine of different capacity and characteristics even if the weight is the same, which it may not be, is not going to result in very useful feedback for the current bike in any case imo. I think stoner tested the gp 09 carbonfibre thing during the 2008 season anyway, but perhaps in a regular testing session.

What interests me is the configuration of the new engine; presumably it is still an L4 as it seems likely a narrower angle V4 would have been obvious.

Nuts · Apr 11, 2011

Mental Anarchist said:
They just bought the Rossi factor for 15million euro's and it looks to me like they decided to take their newly acquired balance of power out for a spin.

Gold !!!!!

Nuts · Apr 11, 2011

Mental Anarchist said:
They just bought the Rossi factor for 15million euro's and it looks to me like they decided to take their newly acquired balance of power out for a spin.

Gold !!!!!

ozbiker13 · Apr 11, 2011

J4rn0 said:
1. Are you trying to insinuate that Ducati are not as fair or correct as any other manufacturer?! And on what do you base such an allegation?

2. Who are you to judge personal integrity anyway.

3. Your speculations are full to the brim of commonplace silly notions that, again (I'm sorry) smell of ignorance. Italians are all mafia? of course! And Japanese are all honorable samurais (Yakuza is as honorable as Mafia anyway). Go on, tell us that Germans are all Nazis and Americans are all ignorant Imperialists. And what about India -- an ocean of corruption?

Grow up boy, get a life. In all countries the majority of people are basically honest, work hard, have children, take them to the park, care for the values of life. Just for your information

Yes...i found something to agree with

renjith_varma · Apr 12, 2011

J4rn0 said:
1. Are you trying to insinuate that Ducati are not as fair or correct as any other manufacturer?! And on what do you base such an allegation?

2. Who are you to judge personal integrity anyway.

3. Your speculations are full to the brim of commonplace silly notions that, again (I'm sorry) smell of ignorance. Italians are all mafia? of course! And Japanese are all honorable samurais (Yakuza is as honorable as Mafia anyway). Go on, tell us that Germans are all Nazis and Americans are all ignorant Imperialists. And what about India -- an ocean of corruption?

Grow up boy, get a life. In all countries the majority of people are basically honest, work hard, have children, take them to the park, care for the values of life. Just for your information

Sadly I have to agree with this

Talpa · Apr 12, 2011

digger said:
tin hats at the ready boys, its a conspiracy!

thats 'mental'

Mental Anarchist · Apr 12, 2011

J4rn0 said:
Yes of course, the hidden fuel reservoir...

And the joystick control from the pits.

Nino · Apr 12, 2011

Keshav said:
What it says is: I have nothing against Ducati - except when they're cheating.

Although I frequently critisized them for their inability to design the bike

to make it rideable for competitors other than Stoner. And for the crappy

way they threw Stoner and Melandri and Capirossi under the bus when

there were problems with the bike.

So you've got nothing against Ducati except for their 'cheating'.

Oh, and their inability to design a bike.

And for ditching Stoner.

Well hopefully by ditching Stoner they now have a #1 rider who can give them some proper feedback on the bike. Oh yeah, they have to cheat to do it - this is the line to be trotted out with more frequency as soon as Rossi starts winning races

.

Keshav · Apr 12, 2011

J4rn0 said:
1. Are you trying to insinuate that Ducati are not as fair or correct as any other manufacturer?! And on what do you base such an allegation?

2. Who are you to judge personal integrity anyway.

3. Your speculations are full to the brim of commonplace silly notions that, again (I'm sorry) smell of ignorance. Italians are all mafia? of course! And Japanese are all honorable samurais (Yakuza is as honorable as Mafia anyway). Go on, tell us that Germans are all Nazis and Americans are all ignorant Imperialists. And what about India -- an ocean of corruption?

Grow up boy, get a life. In all countries the majority of people are basically honest, work hard, have children, take them to the park, care for the values of life. Just for your information

1. Again you evade the question. That Ducati's integrity has been called into question is a given. And you replied in essence that they were too big

to be dishonest.

Again, the allegation is clearly a result of Ducati's willingness to brazenly break the rules by allowing Rossi and Hayden to test outside the allowed testing schedule. You're not stupid - but you do make a lame pretense of being obtuse on these two points. Might as well just say "Duh... uhh what was the question?" This pretense is patently dishonest.

2. Cut the ........ about Italians, Mafia etc. this is another lame red-herring non-issue and you well know it. I made reference to the Medicis etc.

strictly as a joke, and reiterated this in a previous post. To extra clear about this - I would point out that half my family are from Naples so you playing race/culture card is a weak and wasted gambit.

As to your #2 question - the answer is: I'm the guy whose simple, direct questions you continually evade because answering them honestly would undercut the basis of the denial with which you have so comfortably cushioned yourself.

cliche guevara · Apr 12, 2011

Nino said:
as soon as Rossi starts winning races

.

i highly doubt that if rossi starts winning again keshav or any other members here would dare to downplay grand prix victories just as successful cheating .

on the other hand if another rider wins what do you say? youre whole line of argumentation is based on the firm belief that all victories are rossis earnings and all losses are because of machinery and that makes it difficult to debate

Austin · Apr 12, 2011

Nino said:
Oh yeah, they have to cheat to do it - this is the line to be trotted out with more frequency as soon as Rossi starts winning races

.

There's a chance you'll have to wait for 2012 to say that. Rumors are that they're throwing everything at 2012 and essentially writing off this season. Apparently the test was to appease Rossi to show him that the GP12 will be competitive, as he's not a happy camper.

GP12 tested today at Jerez

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