GP12 tested today at Jerez

2 wheeled panzer commander · Apr 8, 2011

Mental Anarchist said:
So the bike is a GP11 chassis with a new swing arm and the 2012 engine with its compatible exhaust. So tell me how this could possibly be considered a GP12? If they are going to allow teams to test the GP12 then they should have to line up with a bike that does not have any main components from this years bike.

This is nothing more than extra testing for this season with a few little benefits to trying out the engine for next year.

When the announcement came that Rossi was switching to Ducati a lot of people suggested that the rules would be bent to allow Rossi to test more so he could learn to ride the bike. Well here we have it. Another prediction of favouritism comes true.

Do you also love the BS from Rossi about how great the engine is and how much you can slide it blah blah blah. So what did they turn the TC off? Great that they got the engine so perfect right off the bat!!!

MotoGP is becoming a dumb man's sport. To watch it and suck up the BS that is feed to us you have to be as dumb as.....well...Nino and friends.

i understand what your saying about the gp12 and it being not too different from the gp11 bike . but i thought it was a foregone conclusion that the best part of the 800 bike changes that were hight cost parts this year would have to be transferable to the 1000 cc bike . and thats a good thing if you look at the likes of suzuki who want to keep costs down .

but you can see how it looks like 46# is getting more seat time on his bike . but i'm sure every team will be given the same track time on there bikes with next years riders

Austin · Apr 8, 2011

Mental Anarchist said:
The difference will be the 'later in the year' bit. I suspect that Honda and Yamaha will test there 2012 bike after it has been full shacked down by test riders much later in the year because they don't need to fix their 2011 bike. Presently Ducati have a bike that is a middle of the pack bike at least. There is talk of major upgrades coming very soon. A 2012 'test' is organised seemingly just before the major upgrades are due to be presented to the 'factory' rider and his 'test' ......

In this 2012 'test' we see a new swing arm. Prior to this we hear that the front end issues could very well be coming from the rear end.

I would hope that if we see the '2012' swing arm end up on the '2011' bike, Yamaha and Honda both put in a protest and have the part banned for the remainder of 2012. Of course Dorna will not allow the protest because nothing must get in the way of 'marketing'.

Very fair point. And I, more or less, agree with you. All I'm saying is that from a technical standpoint, if Yamaha and Honda test their 2012 bikes later in the year, then they've all had a chance. You know what I mean? I think it's exploiting a loophole, but until Ducati and Rossi/Hayden are testing on more occasions than the others, then I don't think there's a lot to complain about. Just my opinion.

J4rn0 · Apr 8, 2011

It is really funny to call the GP12 a Yamacati or some other stupid name because it has an inverted swingarm -- Honda made the same change in 2008 and nobody called it a Yahonda because of that.

Then we have others already crying foul play cause Rossi has tested a bike for one day. Never mind Hayden will do the same (as most other riders will during the year), it must be foul play since Rossi is involved. Get a life...

Keshav · Apr 8, 2011

Nino said:
Learn to love Vale

See... that's the thing. I do ~~love~~ like Vale.

We all do. It's just that some of us are a bit more

down-to-earth about it and are capable of seeing

him objectively - warts and all.

Hell... now that I think on it - I don't "love" Stoner.

I just respect him - a lot. He's not particularly

lovable. Nor for that matter is Spies.

Now if you're talking LOVE with a capital L

the guy to talk to is Jumkie, everyone's favorite

stalker.

Keshav · Apr 8, 2011

J4rn0 said:
It is really funny to call the GP12 a Yamacati or some other stupid name because it has an inverted swingarm -- Honda made the same change in 2008 and nobody called it a Yahonda because of that.

Then we have others already crying foul play cause Rossi has tested a bike for one day. Never mind Hayden will do the same (as most other riders will during the year), it must be foul play since Rossi is involved. Get a life...

I was thinking maybe ....-ha.

BKmoto · Apr 8, 2011

Austin said:
Very fair point. And I, more or less, agree with you. All I'm saying is that from a technical standpoint, if Yamaha and Honda test their 2012 bikes later in the year, then they've all had a chance. You know what I mean? I think it's exploiting a loophole, but until Ducati and Rossi/Hayden are testing on more occasions than the others, then I don't think there's a lot to complain about. Just my opinion.

I agree, Ducati are exploiting a loophole but it sounds like everyone else will too. Speaking of loopholes, anyone else think the Honda gearbox might fall into that category. I love that they did it, I just don't think it followed the spirit of the rules.

Keshav · Apr 8, 2011

J4rn0 said:
It is really funny to call the GP12 a Yamacati or some other stupid name because it has an inverted swingarm -- Honda made the same change in 2008 and nobody called it a Yahonda because of that.

Then we have others already crying foul play cause Rossi has tested a bike for one day. Never mind Hayden will do the same (as most other riders will during the year), it must be foul play since Rossi is involved. Get a life...

Basically - this was a chance for Rossi to suss out the new engine. I wouldn't make THAT big a deal out of it.

As others have said - as long as the other factories are free to take advantage of this loophole - it's all good.

Austin · Apr 8, 2011

BKmoto said:
I agree, Ducati are exploiting a loophole but it sounds like everyone else will too. Speaking of loopholes, anyone else think the Honda gearbox might fall into that category. I love that they did it, I just don't think it followed the spirit of the rules.

To be honest, I've been wondering about the Honda gearbox sticking around. Not because of the starting issue, but because of the downshifting. Maybe it's just Dovizioso making an excuse, I don't know, but he said that the downshifting with it is extremely difficult. To the point where it's become a conscious action for him rather than second nature. He mentioned it's led to a number of braking mistakes, missing apexes etc. and I have to wonder if it's contributing to his unusual number of falls this season. But if Stoner and Pedrosa don't have that issue with it, or if they can handle its quirks, then I suppose it isn't going anywhere.

alex29 · Apr 8, 2011

J4rn0 said:
It is really funny to call the GP12 a Yamacati or some other stupid name because it has an inverted swingarm -- Honda made the same change in 2008 and nobody called it a Yahonda because of that.

Then we have others already crying foul play cause Rossi has tested a bike for one day. Never mind Hayden will do the same (as most other riders will during the year), it must be foul play since Rossi is involved. Get a life...

I called it a Yamacati partly taking the piss but more to the point the swingarm plus side exit exhaust bears a resemblance to the M1,comparisons are inevitable. . . . Will these mods end up on the GP11?

Keshav · Apr 8, 2011

Oniker said:
I called it a Yamacati partly taking the piss but more to the point the swingarm plus side exit exhaust bears a resemblance to the M1,comparisons are inevitable. . . . Will these mods end up on the GP11?

I guess it depends on whether they made the "GP12" handle better.

xx CURVE xx · Apr 8, 2011

looks big

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2K2VU89JcFg[/media]

Anders · Apr 8, 2011

If this was a test of mainly the GP12 engine (Preziosi said) ,and it fits perfectly in the GP11 frame,atleast there can't be a totally different engine.Probarbly the same L configuration then.

Or,was this to a big part a test of ideas for the GP11 rearend to correct the front end?

Isn't it possible to remap and tweak the 800 engine taking alot more fuel to simulate what a 1000 engine could be like roughly?

By the way,so this is Ducati's test days,and there will be a test after Mugello for everyone?

(and ofcourse the other factories can have there own tests after any raceweekend they like)

jazkat · Apr 8, 2011

xx CURVE xx said:
looks big

yesssssssss curveeeeeeee

the return of the thunder

mylexicon · Apr 8, 2011

Mental Anarchist said:
So the bike is a GP11 chassis with a new swing arm and the 2012 engine with its compatible exhaust. So tell me how this could possibly be considered a GP12? If they are going to allow teams to test the GP12 then they should have to line up with a bike that does not have any main components from this years bike.

Troubling info about the frame, isn't it? I still don't think the development is cross compatible, but it does appear that Ducati may have used this test to further develop this year's bike.

Mental Anarchist · Apr 8, 2011

mylexicon said:
Troubling info about the frame, isn't it? I still don't think the development is cross compatible, but it does appear that Ducati may have used this test to further develop this year's bike.

Aren't Dorna using the excuse that 'an engine does not make a bike', to justify their use of production engines in the CRT bikes and its encroachment on WSBK?

So if this excuse sticks then Ducati is testing a GP11 end of story.

mylexicon · Apr 8, 2011

Mental Anarchist said:
Aren't Dorna using the excuse that 'an engine does not make a bike', to justify their use of production engines in the CRT bikes and its encroachment on WSBK?

So if this excuse sticks then Ducati is testing a GP11 end of story.

True, but it is also true that a GP11 with a 22L gas tank would also be legal to test with MotoGP riders. This test is at least following the spirit of the rules.

michaelm · Apr 8, 2011

mylexicon said:
Troubling info about the frame, isn't it? I still don't think the development is cross compatible, but it does appear that Ducati may have used this test to further develop this year's bike.

I don't care about them testing, an engine with different characteristics (which is what valentino definitely wants) will change things drastically, even regardless of differing weight etc. Like you I am interested in what they are testing; are they sticking with the current chassis design/material, and is it already too late to change if they wish to do so?

(EDIT kropotkin seems to imply it was a modified gp11 chassis, and says a new chassis of nature unspecified with rossi/hayden input is under design for the gp12).

Mental Anarchist · Apr 8, 2011

mylexicon said:
True, but it is also true that a GP11 with a 22L gas tank would also be legal to test with MotoGP riders. This test is at least following the spirit of the rules.

Really? So in reality there is no test ban at all it is just that you are not allowed to test a complete bike. In my view it should be that they are not allowed to test a prototype bike, full stop.

michaelm said:
I don't care about them testing, an engine with different characteristics (which is what valentino definitely wants) will change things drastically, even regardless of differing weight etc. Like you I am interested in what they are testing; are they sticking with the current chassis design/material, and is it already too late to change if they wish to do so?

(EDIT kropotkin seems to imply it was a modified gp11 chassis, and says a new chassis of nature unspecified with rossi/hayden input is under design for the gp12).

I guess this is my point. They do not have a GP12 as it is still in design. They have a GP11 with some bits for next season bolted to it. So where do you draw the line on any of those new bits bolted to the GP11 and tested outside an official 2011 test session being introduced during the current season. Maybe to keep it fair they should have a ban on any part tested under this 'gentleman's' agreement being used during the current season. If this was the case then I would stake my life on the fact that Rossi would not have tested yesterday.

If Rossi was only human and not the reincarnation of christ when it comes to development of a motorcycle then I could understand that he would need extra help. But as it happens Stoner switched teams and was able to test a series of parts including a couple of completely different chassis, electronic systems etc all in the official tests and turn up to Race 1 ready to go and he is only human and allegedly can't develop his way out of a wet paper bag.

Tekniqs · Apr 9, 2011

to be fair, that honda was dialed in from day 1

Jumkie · Apr 9, 2011

mylexicon said:
Troubling info about the frame, isn't it? I still don't think the development is cross compatible, but it does appear that Ducati may have used this test to further develop this year's bike.

Ya think?

Let me get this straight, so a couple of weeks ago we hear Burgess say that Rossi wants some things changed for the engine and Ducati is working on it to present at Estoril. Today they test a "GP12", which turns out to be a GP11 with a different engine...what r we so confused about? They even painted it like a GP11 so ther wont be any mistake. WTF

Oh, and J4rno, get off it already, i dont even think some of the crazies here buy ur insisting that Ducati is doing nothing extraordinary. U keep harping about all the changes as no big deal. J4rno crying--hey guys, dont call it a YamaDuc, even Honda did this, bla bla. Hello, what about Jap do u not understand in Italian? Ducati's swing arm and side exhaust mite as well come from the Yamaha garage dude. Mayb we r all seeing and reading a mirage? Exactly how does ur sense of alternate reality give anything u say credibility? Answer: it doesn't.

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GP12 tested today at Jerez

2 wheeled panzer commander

Austin

J4rn0

Keshav

Keshav

BKmoto

Keshav

Austin

alex29

Keshav

xx CURVE xx

Anders

jazkat

mylexicon

Mental Anarchist

mylexicon

michaelm

Mental Anarchist

Tekniqs

Jumkie

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