Ben Spies MotoGp Failure ?

First, lay off NJ. It's an amazing state.

Second, the BSB seems like the only national series to have it's head on straight. Considering how small and balmy the UK, they are doing a fanstastic job.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Keshav @ Oct 14 2009, 08:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I wonder why Southern NJ isn't a nation. Oh yeah, now I remember; because
it's too freakin' small and insignificant.

Woe dude, WTF.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dion @ Oct 12 2009, 02:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Leon Camier won 19 out of 25 races in BSB on a R1. I say there pretty ...... hot..

And only won 7 out of 20 races in AMA. The amazing yamaha R1 has also won a grand total of zero races so far in the Australian Championship.

Information on the all japan SBK is tough to find if you cant read japanese, but from what I dug up its a Honda rider dominating there, with suzuki in second. (maybe). More information would be great so if anyone can find it enlighten me.

Yamaha sits 4th in the World Superstock Championships, behind Ducati, honda and suzuki, and tied with kawasaki. Back to WSBK, they are 65 points behind Ducati in the manufacturers championship.

That gift from God that is the yamaha R1 went 1st and 13th in Donington09 race one. Race two saw yam R1's go 1st, 5th, 6th, and 8th in Race two. Good stuff, but hardly world shattering when the countless double podiums of the Ducati are considered.

The wonderful and fantastic Yam R1 has turned Tom Sykes from a rider that qualified 6th on an overweight suzuki (broken radiator race 1, 6th race two Brands08) and dicing with bayliss in Donington08 to finish second, into a guy that averages 8th in the 2009 championship with a best of 4th. You can argue that Sykes isn't any worse on the yamaha than he was on the suzuki for his wildcards last year, especially considering his 10th in race 2 donington08, but you can NOT argue that the yam has made him better.

With this information it would seem that A)Spies has more talent than the wsbk field B)Leon Camier has more talent than the BSB field C)The yamaha R1 is at best an average machine.

If Spies was on Alstare Suzuki he would have clinched the title by now and won nearly every race. Yeah I said it. Won. every. damn. race. Is the Suzuki better than the R1? or the 1098+200? No, but Spies' familiarity would have made a world of difference in a racing series where all the bikes are relatively equal barring the 200 extra cc's of the ducati. (but that displacement advantage is fair, right?). Spies will be fine in motogp.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yello13 @ Oct 14 2009, 12:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>And only...

Good post, you should come around more often.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Oct 14 2009, 12:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Woe dude, WTF.


New Yorkers mocking New Jersey has been a traditional past time since
forever. Usually Jerseyites having grown up hearing NJ referred to as
"the armpit of the universe", are quite inured to it, kind of like the way
the Irish are about drunk jokes. That anyone from
Jersey would take it seriously - would be quite the anomaly. If anyone
is genuinely offended - please accept my sincere apologies. Hey man,
my wife is from Jersey and even after 9 years I still kid her about it.

A talk show host was recently talking about the national debate on healthcare
and suggested that Newark New Jersey's new healthcare plan consisted
of "a bus ticket out of Newark". And the mayor Corey Booker (a brilliant young
politician) took it in stride and countered accordingly. He said something
just as funny - tho for the life of me I can't remember what. The joking back
and forth between New Yorkers and Jersyites has been going on since I was
a kid.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yello13 @ Oct 14 2009, 03:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>And only won 7 out of 20 races in AMA. The amazing yamaha R1 has also won a grand total of zero races so far in the Australian Championship.

Information on the all japan SBK is tough to find if you cant read japanese, but from what I dug up its a Honda rider dominating there, with suzuki in second. (maybe). More information would be great so if anyone can find it enlighten me.

Yamaha sits 4th in the World Superstock Championships, behind Ducati, honda and suzuki, and tied with kawasaki. Back to WSBK, they are 65 points behind Ducati in the manufacturers championship.

That gift from God that is the yamaha R1 went 1st and 13th in Donington09 race one. Race two saw yam R1's go 1st, 5th, 6th, and 8th in Race two. Good stuff, but hardly world shattering when the countless double podiums of the Ducati are considered.


The wonderful and fantastic Yam R1 has turned Tom Sykes from a rider that qualified 6th on an overweight suzuki (broken radiator race 1, 6th race two Brands08) and dicing with bayliss in Donington08 to finish second, into a guy that averages 8th in the 2009 championship with a best of 4th. You can argue that Sykes isn't any worse on the yamaha than he was on the suzuki for his wildcards last year, especially considering his 10th in race 2 donington08, but you can NOT argue that the yam has made him better.

With this information it would seem that A)Spies has more talent than the wsbk field B)Leon Camier has more talent than the BSB field C)The yamaha R1 is at best an average machine.

If Spies was on Alstare Suzuki he would have clinched the title by now and won nearly every race. Yeah I said it. Won. every. damn. race. Is the Suzuki better than the R1? or the 1098+200? No, but Spies' familiarity would have made a world of difference in a racing series where all the bikes are relatively equal barring the 200 extra cc's of the ducati. (but that displacement advantage is fair, right?). Spies will be fine in motogp.


Your post is totally irrelevant. The discussion was only about the Yamaha as configured
to WSBK standards. .... man, I've ridden Yamahas for more than 20 years and ride an R6 now.
If you're going to reply to a topic - make sure you understand what is being discussed.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (clarkjw @ Oct 14 2009, 12:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>First, lay off NJ. It's an amazing state.

Second, the BSB seems like the only national series to have it's head on straight. Considering how small and balmy the UK, they are doing a fanstastic job.

Holy crap. And people say I'm thin-skinned. The UK is "balmy"? Really?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Keshav @ Oct 14 2009, 03:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>People from anywhere except New Jersey mocking New Jersey has been a traditional past time since forever.Fixed that for you.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Keshav @ Oct 14 2009, 01:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>New Yorkers mocking New Jersey has been a traditional past time since
forever. Usually Jerseyites having grown up hearing NJ referred to as
"the armpit of the universe", are quite inured to it, kind of like the way
the Irish are about drunk jokes. That anyone from
Jersey would take it seriously - would be quite the anomaly. If anyone
is genuinely offended - please accept my sincere apologies. Hey man,
my wife is from Jersey and even after 9 years I still kid her about it.

A talk show host was recently talking about the national debate on healthcare
and suggested that Newark New Jersey's new healthcare plan consisted
of "a bus ticket out of Newark". And the mayor Corey Booker (a brilliant young
politician) took it in stride and countered accordingly. He said something
just as funny - tho for the life of me I can't remember what. The joking back
and forth between New Yorkers and Jersyites has been going on since I was
a kid.

Thanks for the explanation Kesh, I was being a bit facetious in my backing up my buddy Clarky, who happens to be from NJ and is one of the finest human beings I know (I should have put a happy face in my post). And yeah, I see the humor. Tis was funny, but then again, I'm not from NJ. BTW, Jon Stewart from the Daily Show I think is from NJ. He has some of the best jokes, both about NYers and NJites.

Kesh, I wasn't really hurt or anything. Ok, maybe a little
I'm used to the Jersey jokes...but take a backroad ride from NY to NJ Motorsports Park and you'll change your tune

However, I did find the BSB comment quite rediculous. I guess it was a joke. A better one would be putting professional motorcycle racing and AMA in the same sentence.

Jum you're the man.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (clarkjw @ Oct 14 2009, 11:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>However, I did find the BSB comment quite rediculous. I guess it was a joke. A better one would be putting professional motorcycle racing and AMA in the same sentence.

Umm, you just did.









Yes, know what you meant but.







Gaz

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (clarkjw @ Oct 14 2009, 07:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Kesh, I wasn't really hurt or anything. Ok, maybe a little
I'm used to the Jersey jokes...but take a backroad ride from NY to NJ Motorsports Park and you'll change your tune

However, I did find the BSB comment quite rediculous. I guess it was a joke. A better one would be putting professional motorcycle racing and AMA in the same sentence.

Jum you're the man.

Duude! It was totally a joke. The ride to NJ Motorsports is one I know well. I go down there
a couple times a year since it opened to race Karts. It's a pisser. Last time I was there was
right after it rained and we'd been riding all day and someone suggested running the course
counter-clockwise. I went off at the beginning of the straightaway, hit wet grass - no brakes
and ended up taking out a section of the cyclone fence. Had a nice concussion. But it's a
great facility.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Keshav @ Oct 14 2009, 03:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>New Yorkers mocking New Jersey has been a traditional past time since
forever. Usually Jerseyites having grown up hearing NJ referred to as
"the armpit of the universe", are quite inured to it, kind of like the way
the Irish are about drunk jokes. That anyone from
Jersey would take it seriously - would be quite the anomaly. If anyone
is genuinely offended - please accept my sincere apologies. Hey man,
my wife is from Jersey and even after 9 years I still kid her about it.

A talk show host was recently talking about the national debate on healthcare
and suggested that Newark New Jersey's new healthcare plan consisted
of "a bus ticket out of Newark". And the mayor Corey Booker (a brilliant young
politician) took it in stride and countered accordingly. He said something
just as funny - tho for the life of me I can't remember what. The joking back
and forth between New Yorkers and Jersyites has been going on since I was
a kid.
SNL Weekend Update Thursday Interviews New York Governor David Paterson Sorry I can't imbed, NBC won't allow it. The interview is about 3/4 the way in. Lots of good Jersey jokes.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Keshav @ Oct 14 2009, 07:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Duude! It was totally a joke. The ride to NJ Motorsports is one I know well. I go down there
a couple times a year since it opened to race Karts. It's a pisser. Last time I was there was
right after it rained and we'd been riding all day and someone suggested running the course
counter-clockwise. I went off at the beginning of the straightaway, hit wet grass - no brakes
and ended up taking out a section of the cyclone fence. Had a nice concussion. But it's a
great facility.


Running the track the opposite way doesn't mean the run-off's will work the same. But then I guess you already found that out, the hard way.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J708 @ Oct 7 2009, 01:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Spies will be a success in MotoGP and Yamaha will celebrate. End of story. The next person who doubts Bens abilities will be eating dirty ..... in .... sauce.
If you ever wondered what that tastes like just ask Supershinya 56.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Keshav @ Oct 14 2009, 01:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Your post is totally irrelevant. The discussion was only about the Yamaha as configured
to WSBK standards. .... man, I've ridden Yamahas for more than 20 years and ride an R6 now.
If you're going to reply to a topic - make sure you understand what is being discussed.

You riding yamahas for 20 years is a good deal more irrelevant than the figures I brought up, which pertained to actual racing.

If you really think that the WSBK machines are tuned 'that' much higher than near-factory equipment in other major series' then you are deluding yourself. The AMA bikes are not slower by much and I guarantee the MFJ bikes are tuned pretty damn high, being in Japan and all. The engine characteristics and geometry are similar enough to provide useful comparison. The bikes definitely didn't seem too alien to Morais, Hacking, or any other wildcard this year. A superbike is a superbike. Ben Spies showed that this year; Haslem, Neukirchner and anyone else brand swapping will show that next year. The performance of the bikes are equally matched, only minor riding style adjustments are needed. Had Spies not wasted time adjusting to the yam and had been on a K9 it would be game over.

To beat the old saying to death: the best riders win. It is the rider that is the difference, end of story. As has been already said in this thread, Spies performs on every bike he has ridden. From his supersport days, to ama sbk and wbsk, he has shown he possesses the most important trait of all, which is adaptability.

Expect a show in Valencia.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yello13 @ Oct 15 2009, 08:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Expect a show in Valencia.

I think that we need to be realistic here. If he can manage top 8 in Valencia I think that would be a fantastic showing.

On top of that MotoGP bikes are a different breed than SBK's. He's going to need some time to adjsut to the bike. It's not like he's going to a different series and hopping on an R1. Then there is the tires..

I hoping for a fifth

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yello13 @ Oct 15 2009, 11:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You riding yamahas for 20 years is a good deal more irrelevant than the figures I brought up, which pertained to actual racing.

If you really think that the WSBK machines are tuned 'that' much higher than near-factory equipment in other major series' then you are deluding yourself. The AMA bikes are not slower by much and I guarantee the MFJ bikes are tuned pretty damn high, being in Japan and all. The engine characteristics and geometry are similar enough to provide useful comparison. The bikes definitely didn't seem too alien to Morais, Hacking, or any other wildcard this year. A superbike is a superbike. Ben Spies showed that this year; Haslem, Neukirchner and anyone else brand swapping will show that next year. The performance of the bikes are equally matched, only minor riding style adjustments are needed. Had Spies not wasted time adjusting to the yam and had been on a K9 it would be game over.

To beat the old saying to death: the best riders win. It is the rider that is the difference, end of story. As has been already said in this thread, Spies performs on every bike he has ridden. From his supersport days, to ama sbk and wbsk, he has shown he possesses the most important trait of all, which is adaptability.

Expect a show in Valencia.

It's clear that you're championing Yamahas and have the wrong-headed delusion that I am bad-mouthing them - so I pointed out that I've been a Yamaha rider (I raced them in club races for years) for a long time and think highly of the marque. That is relevant.

And you're throwing around a lot of non-pertinent, extraneous, irrelevant info here. Who the .... said anything about the AMA? It's plain and simple - the Yamahas have not been competitive in WSBK because of overall configuration rules that encompass engine tuning, electronics, suspension etc. It's well known and accepted wisdom that everybody who follows WSBK agrees on; namely that the regulations have always been tipped in favor of Ducati. No championships have been won in WSBK on a Yamaha. Honda has won a few championships because they poured zillions of dollars into their WSBK efforts, and Yamaha has never quite matched their spending and the proof is in the bikes. This is all accepted wisdom. What is there to disagree about? Nothing. You just seem to be hell-bent on disagreeing about something. But nothing you have said as yet pertains to my original comment which was pretty straightforward. Clearly - you missed the point of what I was saying - and now you're obstinately trying to defend an argument about something I never implied. Quit while you're ahead. If you continue to argue about things I never implied - then I will have to conclude that you're too foolish to dialog with.

Oh and that business about the rider making the difference, any ninny knows this to be a limited truth. If this were an absolute fact (which is how you present it) Rossi would be able to win a MGP on a streetbike.

Ben Spies needs to sleep with his tires and his bike next weekend. It also might be a good idea to trade tires with Sykes after they are handed out. Well, maybe not sleep with his tires and bike but at least have a survelliance camera on them and be sure to check the footage.m On top of that he needs his food flown in from overseas and a taste tester to sniff our any problems. Check his boots and leathers for spiders and other venomous creatures. Then hire about 6 armed body guards and add kevlar to his leathers.

This game is crazy

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Keshav @ Oct 13 2009, 12:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>We're not talking about British club racing. We're talking about Yamahas running
configured to WSBK rules which have always been blatantly skewed in favor of the
Ducatis.

I've never fully bought that the rules have allways been in favor of Ducati and it was a joy to get my point proven when they went MotoGP: These guys know how to build race engines [period]
They also attract the best riders in the wsbk and together that's a pretty strong force regardless of engine configuration. True, there has been years where the rules favoured the ducati, just no every year allways. They've also done their homework in the racing department.
You mentioned how Haga or anyone else never won the title on the Yamaha, but surly taking the title now should be a walk in the park?