Ben Spies MotoGp Failure ?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dion @ Oct 7 2009, 09:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Maybe Spies will be different, I for one hope so.


Spies has been on a diet of pretzels and ice cream . Spies IS different! He got finer qualities and determination that a few riders would dream of having in their career. He's 25, and got a good 5-6 years ahead. He has never failed to deliver and is a rider who will always impress the audience and his team.

All i know is Moto GP needs to do something to bridge the gap between the factory bikes and the customer bikes. Its as if the customer bikes are there to fulfill the numbers quota.Take Sunday's race,after 6 laps, Edwards was over 6 seconds behind. On a day when Rossi got killed by the front 3,he still beat Edwards by 10 seconds. That was not the case with the 990's where Melandri and Gravelplow won races and other customer Honda's raced at the front and even won some races.That race Sunday was so boring after watching WSBK,i got up and helped the wife cook dinner and just checked in every 5 minutes or so just to see if someone had wrecked and how that altered the running order.As far as Spies, i think he will be the top running customer bike next year but without some bizarre set of circumstances, will not sniff a podium. I think it is fair to say that right now in GP,winning a race,much less a championship,is next to impossible on a customer bike.With that being the case, it only reasons that hot shot riders that are used to winning,give up mentally after a year on the GP circuit. Getting beat by 30 40 seconds,week end and week out starts to work on you and its easy to fall into mindset of who gives a ..... Im out here risking my life with no hope of winning,or even getting a podium, for what. The 800 experiment has been a huge failure,the riders dont like it,the fans dont like it, what will it take for Dorna to see the light.It appears that egotistical morons that run motorcycle championship series is not reserved for AMA.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gsfan @ Oct 7 2009, 12:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>One of the best WSBK riders in the history of the world on the best machine in the paddock. Don't worry about Ben.

JT was WSBK Champ, and on the Yamaha. Why do you think Spies will do any better?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dion @ Oct 7 2009, 10:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>... just like, Neil Hodgson, Troy Bayliss, Colin Edwards, and Other good superbike riders Ruben Xaus, shane Byrne, James Ellison, Mokoto Tamada, Nori Haga.
Which of those on your list was on a competitive bike? I'd say only Colin, lately. And he's been a consistent top 5 this year. Only Colin and Nicky have been on good bikes in GP, the rest have been 2nd tier. Why do you think Simoncelli or Lorenzo would not touch the Ducati? Why do you think it was so hard for Rizla Suzuki to attract a 250 champ? Because they suck! (Bayliss comes in on a one off on a good bike and won one btw). It amazes me how many on here follow the sport but have no idea what the prototype nature of the series means in results.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dion @ Oct 7 2009, 11:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Please enlighten me !

Are you serious?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Oct 7 2009, 07:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Are you serious?
educate the boy jum.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dion @ Oct 7 2009, 12:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Please do educate me ? I'd like to know what you think the nature of prototype racing series means in results.?
Ah, forget it. I'm too lazy.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Oct 7 2009, 10:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Spies came 2nd. Yeah, that's getting schooled "badly"

Yes, Haga schooled him that day. He was cruising and still beat Spies by 5 seconds. I was just adding that to your list of Imola and Kayalami.

Dion, the idea that people still doubt Spies abilities, even in WSBK, boggles me

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mr. Shupe @ Oct 6 2009, 08:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>He is a better supersport rider? I thought his last supersport campaign, 2006?, was somewhat lackluster in comparison to his superbike performance?
As I remember Spies never set the world alight on a 600. Then again, Suzuki hasn't taken the Supersport class seriously in at least a decade. Yosh Suzuki brought Tommy Hayden, who is regarded as about the best Supersport rider over here, to Suzuki primarily to win a 600 title and he wasn't able to do much with it, either.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dion @ Oct 7 2009, 12:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I think JT is a good comparison against Spies, I aint blowing smoke up JTs ... but he is a good rider, very good superbike rider. World Champion just like, Neil Hodgson, Troy Bayliss, Colin Edwards, and Other good superbike riders Ruben Xaus, shane Byrne, James Ellison, Mokoto Tamada, Nori Haga. all of which rode 4 stroke MotoGP bikes, and have failed to deliver, and so Ive realised once and for all SBK riders cant hack MotoGP.
Maybe Spies will be different, I for one hope so.
I've got to disagree with you on this. Toseland managed 16 wins in seven seasons. Spies has 12 in 13 meetings, an only seeing the vast majority of these circuits this season either when he shows up on Thursday or in preseason testing. Toseland gathered those results in a far greater span of time than Spies, and he had two seasons in WSS to help him in track knowledge. As far as I'm concerned there is no comparison between the two, it just so happens that Spies has spent a year in a series that Toseland has spent the majority of his career in.

Like I illustrated in an earlier post, look at what riders like Hodgson, Xaus, Byrne, Ellison and Tamada have done since they left MotoGP. Hodgson and Xaus can split a handful of race wins aboard Ducatis, Byrne has a domestic championship and has disappointed in WSBK (regrettably, I'm a big Shakey fan and hope he can come good with an Aprilia for 2010), and Tamada has fallen off the face of the planet.

Edwards and Bayliss are the freaks of the WSB to MotoGP phenomenon. Edwards has become a very useful development rider and has proven he's the quickest outside the aliens on a consistent basis. Bayliss was a casualty of the Ducati Marlboro attitude. He was never given the crew he wanted in 2003 and 2004. When he was finally given the crew he wanted in Valencia 2006, he won the thing convincingly. If Suppo wasn't so stubborn I think Bayliss would have had a very successful GP career.

Haga is a question mark in my mind. He's always been fast on a Superbike but for whatever reason was never able to put it together in Grand Prix. He took a podium wildcarding but couldn't find that speed when he was at Red Bull Yamaha in 2001. Despite McCoy's brief success there, I'm not convinced that team was as strong as McCoy's results led everyone to believe. He was never able to recapture that form and no teammate was ever able to do much, either. Then Haga went on the Cube and had similar results to Edwards. Haga wasn't thrown out of MotoGP, he left. Was his riding style compatible with Grand Prix? I don't know, results would indicate no. My opinion is that the talent is there, you compare his season with Edwards's in 2003 and you tell me otherwise. I just think he's a pure Superbiker through and through, and unless he was able to take the fight to Rossi week in and week out, he would rather ride a Super.

Dion, here's a little insight from WSBK veteran Troy Corser

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>Troy Corser was left underwhelmed with his two top ten finishes from the latest round of the World Superbike Championship at Magny-Cours, the Australian going on to point out that his race pace this year would have been good enough to win last year.

Emphasising the level of competition in this season's championship, Corser enjoyed a solid weekend in France, qualifying eighth before challenging for results in the bottom end of the top ten.

Although he admits he can't get 'too excited' about an eventual ninth and tenth place finish, Corser was nonetheless amazed to discover that his race distance time this year was better than that of both of last year's race winners Noriyuki Haga and Troy Bayliss.

“In a way there's nothing to get too excited about a pair of top ten finishes, but I guess that's what the expectations are and that's what we got. After a few laps, I was going as fast as the leaders, but they had already made a break and it was impossible to catch them up.

“This season is so competitive, that once you have lost a gap, you can lap as fast as the leaders, but still not make any headway. My crew chief Tom told me that my race distance time today would have been good enough to win the race last year!”

Rising to an 12th position in the overall standings, Corser continues to be impressed with the progress the BMW team has made in its debut year, but maintains there is still much more to come.

“For sure, the bike is improving steadily and there's another step to come in Portimao, but what's a little frustrating is that the bike has potential and we are not able to extract that potential as fast as Ruben and I would like.

“Everybody is working as hard as the can and we are getting there, but some patience is required at the moment. Our next task is to control some of the wheelspinning and wheelies we are getting. If we can get that sorted out and get the power on the ground, we'll be flying!”

Crash.net

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Oct 7 2009, 05:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The 800 experiment has been a huge failure,the <u>riders don't like it</u>,the <u>fans don't like it</u>, what will it take for Dorna to see the light.It appears that egotistical morons that run motorcycle championship series is not reserved for AMA.


Well said! Thank you very much! I feel a little less crazy now! Cheers!

I will judge Spies next year on the same grounds he has chosen to judge himself. He plans on setting his personal goals during the winter test sessions. He has said himself that he is looking to try and stay in the top 10 during his first year and would be happy with consistently placing 5th/6th. The guy is smart, and realistic about what he thinks he can achieve. With so many rookies in GP next year it will be interesting to see who will come out as top rookie.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dion @ Oct 6 2009, 03:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I am curious as to what forum thinks would happen if Ben Spies was a flop in MotoGP ?
Alleged superbike phenomenon, yet still only 2nd in the championship ? Still being beaten by Haga, a man who James Toseland (MotoGP failure )beat every season he raced him both on 2 cylinders and 4 cylinder machines..
Maybe the skill is shown by his results on the R1, the only yam making results in WSBK then the others R1s are ridden by David Checa, Tom Sykes, and erwan nigon, none of which set the world alight !
But the R1 is a proven winner by leon camier is BSB !
What will happen to Spies if he has the problems James Toseland has had this year ? I think he'll struggle, and I think the Motosport Press and Yamaha have Hyped him up so much that Ben has a long way to fall.
Good luck Spies, the world awaits !! And america too !
The difference between Toseland and Spies is the mentality. Toseland has a weak psyche while Spies is strong. Toseland turned out to be a headcase this year, I don't think that will happen to Ben.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Noodlerizer @ Oct 8 2009, 07:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The difference between Toseland and Spies is the mentality. Toseland has a weak psyche while Spies is strong. Toseland turned out to be a headcase this year, I don't think that will happen to Ben.
Another difference may be adaptability. Rather than being a headcase this year it could be that toseland just can't ride bridgestones. Ben on the other hand seems to be able to work out solutions and change things quickly, as his rapid acclimatisation to unfamiliar circuits in wsbk would seem to attest.

Colin Edwards has done better than any other world superbike graduate to date, so its excellent for spies that he will be along side him. If Spies beats Colin, he is a success. I wouldn't expect him to do it in his first season, but i think he will do it. We all know Spies is an excellent rider and a fast learner, but there is no way of telling yet if he will ever be able to get near the top 4 in the world because they are in a class of their own. I reckon he can get to Doviziozo level, after that i don't know.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mick.. Rossi.. 46 No1... @ Oct 7 2009, 02:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>JT was WSBK Champ, and on the Yamaha. Why do you think Spies will do any better?
Because i personally believe that JT is not in the same conversation as Spies when comparing talent.

That may be way off base,time will tell. There was a lot of naysayers when he came to WSBK also,except for the people that know bike racing and know Spies.There were a few that said he would do exactly what he is doing.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Oct 8 2009, 07:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Because i personally believe that JT is not in the same conversation as Spies when comparing talent.

That may be way off base,time will tell. There was a lot of naysayers when he came to WSBK also,except for the people that know bike racing and know Spies.There were a few that said he would do exactly what he is doing.

I said before the WSBK season that a top 5 would be reasonable and I knew where he was coming from and watched him race through the AMA. My heart said that he would win the championship though.

I am taking the same mentality with him for MOTOGP. Head says, top 8 would be amazing, heart says by the end of the season if he is getting the support from Yamaha he will be on the tail end of the top 4. Obviously if his bike is a POS satelite I don't expect him to achieve much more than top 10.