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Gecko Hunter said:
Rossi either wins on it or has egg on his face.
Click to expand...



Well at least it will be yellow
<






Gecko Hunter said:
As for Casey the same goes for him, simple as that although he will have the Puig obstacle to deal with.

If Honda have any balls (which I suspect they don't) that will be dealt with pretty smartly.
Click to expand...



I think Honda have already sent "the message" to Puig etc., hiring Stoner says nothing but "we believe we have the bike ...... but not the rider". Surely they would not go so far then drop it and not back Stoner 100% if Puig gets all "Puigy".



Stoner has only 2 more wins to be number 6 in the alltime winners list,

pretty sure that should at least happen in 2011 who knows maybe even he could do it this year then, Pedrosa is nowhere near that ......... Honda will be aware
<


And he has doubled the performance of Pedrosa in the Motogp class http://www.motorsportsetc.com/stats/st_gpwin.htm
 
Gecko Hunter said:
On a slightly different note,



As for Casey the same goes for him, simple as that although he will have the Puig obstacle to deal with.

If Honda have any balls (which I suspect they don't) that will be dealt with pretty smartly.



There can be no arguing any of these points both bikes are proven winners and in the case of the duck, proven by a "lesser" rider

who only won a championship because he happened to be on a better bike with better tyres which has never been done before

by any other rider.................



Cheers



Gecko Hunter
Click to expand...

Hrc may have to make a decision to back one rider or the other later in the season when the championship approaches as realistically every team in every form of racing has to do unless there are no competitors with a chance to win which I think is quite unlikely with the current field.



I don't think they are likely to give dani preference from the start even if his form prior to his crash might warrant it, because even apart from his lack of consistency prior to this year he is demonstrably fragile, and mostly one fall away from putting himself out of contention.
 
Jumkie said:
I had already gave you the context but you ignored it. That's why these threads get so long. Because even after the question is answered out pops the issue again. So again, context, Nicky didn't complain about Pedro's torpedo. That's the context to read Nicky's reaction to Rossi, its all good. Basically you would need to shoot him with a shot gun for him to say, yo, that's not cool man.
<
Click to expand...



yo jums, what if there wasn't really anything to complain about? what if you're right with the pedro torpedo context, but wrong with the VR context? not boppering, just saying. what if he didn't complain because, unlike the pedro torpedo incident, he wasn't just being nice this time; what if there wasn't really anything to complain about?
 
Gecko Hunter said:
On a slightly different note,



Rossi now has positively no excuses for not winning on the duck next year.



Casey has so far got 3 wins not sure exactly how many podiums (5 I think) and is now challenging for 2nd in the championship.



So there can be no dodgy excuse of a crap bike.



Rossi either wins on it or has egg on his face.



As for Casey the same goes for him, simple as that although he will have the Puig obstacle to deal with.

If Honda have any balls (which I suspect they don't) that will be dealt with pretty smartly.



There can be no arguing any of these points both bikes are proven winners and in the case of the duck, proven by a "lesser" rider

who only won a championship because he happened to be on a better bike with better tyres which has never been done before

by any other rider.................



Cheers



Gecko Hunter
Click to expand...



That means Stoner now has positively no excuse for not winning on the duck this year as well
wink.gif
 
Jane, my point doesnt hinge on Nics public opinion. Btw, ur same logic applys to Lorenzo. Like Rossiesky trying to hinge on contact while ignoring the block then taking Nicky wide. (While hes at it, ask him to put up a vid of VR's pass at MG corner, then tell me if this is reminicent of Elias' on Rossi, something Vale called "dangerous). Dont get stuck in isolation but look at the broad picture of VR's typical MO. Then u begin to see the tactic. My opinionis is its desperate and dirty tactic, perhaps ur opinion is thats standard racecraft. Perhaps u choose to call it shrewd or some other discription. I had a long conversation about it with CK (who is more in agreement with Rog but not quite as crazy as the crazies, u know who they are) and i got to thinking. He asked why dont others aliens use the tactic of lundging on inside then forcing other wide? This seems to b more typical of Rossi, at least in recent memory. He basically concluded, its becuz VR is willing to do anything to win and felt thats the key to success. If uv read my posts here, ive pretty much said same thing. Except ive charcterized that tactic as lacking integrity. I dont believe for one second that the other top riders simply dont posses the skill to lundge inside then put the other rider in the predicament of having to concede or risk crash. So why dont they employ this tactic more frequently (as i seen Rossi do). So im left with two options from my pondering. Its either balls or respect for a certain level of race etiquette. Notice how race etiquette has been dismissed by most of my antagonists. But is this a feasable & valid idea to consider? I contest that Casey Lorenzo and Nicky wer not punted becuz of their superior skill, Gibers was not so lucky. So ive concluded that these other three chose not to employ such counter tactics. Why? I speculate its bcuz of their understanding of what is acceptable race craft and perhaps the thought of running a guy wide leading to a possible crash is unconscionable. Its clear Rossi has a different understanding of race craft. According to CK, ends justify means in this game. Btw, Lorenzo has said, given the chance, he will race Rossi like Rossi. What does this mean? Well if the rider's opinion means anything, as is the premise of ur post, then take a closer look at what Rossi himself said about Elias at Turkey. He said Elias' crowding of him was "dangerous". Interesting, the man alludes to a certain unwritten rule of race craft, right? So why doesnt this apply to his moves? I suppose peeps can say, well thats becuz Elias was dangerous. Says who? Rossi and his fans? Elias thought it was fair. At Laguna Stoner felt Rossi was dangerous, Rossi thought it was fair. Same same as Lorenzo at Motegi. Well my opinion is his tactic at PI was dirty and dangerous. His fans think it was fair. Rossi, well of course he thinks it was goodfaith racecraft, but then again, he told us same thing about Gibers, Stones, & Lorenz, but called Elias dangerous, so that should giv u an idea of his perspective. Nicky, no complaints. So whos 'opinion' is right? And thats what its boiled down to, a diff of opinion. The peeps arguing me simply cant accept anybody's characterization of Rossi's race craft as anything other than sublime. They r the same peeps that say Gibs, Stones, r ....... and now JLo for complaining, but also will b quick to tag Elias as incorrect and dangerous in their respective incidents. Who is right when ther is an obvious inconsistency in the logic? Perhaps its just a difference of opinion. Perhaps...



(i was about done with the topic, and was just having fun now with the unreasonable crazies, but for u, i giv this reply. )
 
notabikerther4useless said:
So, to summarise: Stoner winning on a Duc proves that Stoner has no excuse for not winning on a Duc? Did I get that right?
Click to expand...





No, i meant championship you noob. I wasn't aware that we have people with your IQ level on this forum next time i will be more clear with my statements
wink.gif
 
no other rider on the grid has a chance of even winning a race let alone a championship on the ducati as it is now
 
inam said:
That means Stoner now has positively no excuse for not winning on the duck this year as well
wink.gif
Click to expand...



Hasn't he been winning now?



Seems like a slightly redundant statement however tongue in cheek lol!



I reckon Rossi will blow it,the only thing I'm not sure of is what creative excuse he will have!
<
 
Jumkie said:
Jane, my point doesnt hinge on Nics public opinion. Btw, ur same logic applys to Lorenzo. Like Rossiesky trying to hinge on contact while ignoring the block then taking Nicky wide. (While hes at it, ask him to put up a vid of VR's pass at MG corner, then tell me if this is reminicent of Elias' on Rossi, something Vale called "dangerous). Dont get stuck in isolation but look at the broad picture of VR's typical MO. Then u begin to see the tactic. My opinionis is its desperate and dirty tactic, perhaps ur opinion is thats standard racecraft. Perhaps u choose to call it shrewd or some other discription. I had a long conversation about it with CK (who is more in agreement with Rog but not quite as crazy as the crazies, u know who they are) and i got to thinking. He asked why dont others aliens use the tactic of lundging on inside then forcing other wide? This seems to b more typical of Rossi, at least in recent memory. He basically concluded, its becuz VR is willing to do anything to win and felt thats the key to success. If uv read my posts here, ive pretty much said same thing. Except ive charcterized that tactic as lacking integrity. I dont believe for one second that the other top riders simply dont posses the skill to lundge inside then put the other rider in the predicament of having to concede or risk crash. So why dont they employ this tactic more frequently (as i seen Rossi do). So im left with two options from my pondering. Its either balls or respect for a certain level of race etiquette. Notice how race etiquette has been dismissed by most of my antagonists. But is this a feasable & valid idea to consider? I contest that Casey Lorenzo and Nicky wer not punted becuz of their superior skill, Gibers was not so lucky. So ive concluded that these other three chose not to employ such counter tactics. Why? I speculate its bcuz of their understanding of what is acceptable race craft and perhaps the thought of running a guy wide leading to a possible crash is unconscionable. Its clear Rossi has a different understanding of race craft. According to CK, ends justify means in this game. Btw, Lorenzo has said, given the chance, he will race Rossi like Rossi. What does this mean? Well if the rider's opinion means anything, as is the premise of ur post, then take a closer look at what Rossi himself said about Elias at Turkey. He said Elias' crowding of him was "dangerous". Interesting, the man alludes to a certain unwritten rule of race craft, right? So why doesnt this apply to his moves? I suppose peeps can say, well thats becuz Elias was dangerous. Says who? Rossi and his fans? Elias thought it was fair. At Laguna Stoner felt Rossi was dangerous, Rossi thought it was fair. Same same as Lorenzo at Motegi. Well my opinion is his tactic at PI was dirty and dangerous. His fans think it was fair. Rossi, well of course he thinks it was goodfaith racecraft, but then again, he told us same thing about Gibers, Stones, & Lorenz, but called Elias dangerous, so that should giv u an idea of his perspective. Nicky, no complaints. So whos 'opinion' is right? And thats what its boiled down to, a diff of opinion. The peeps arguing me simply cant accept anybody's characterization of Rossi's race craft as anything other than sublime. They r the same peeps that say Gibs, Stones, r ....... and now JLo for complaining, but also will b quick to tag Elias as incorrect and dangerous in their respective incidents. Who is right when ther is an obvious inconsistency in the logic? Perhaps its just a difference of opinion. Perhaps...



(i was about done with the topic, and was just having fun now with the unreasonable crazies, but for u, i giv this reply. )
Click to expand...



At Laguna Rossi refused to admit he was very very lucky that he had Stoner to run into.



Simple as that.



The only thing that is consistent here is that when Rossi does it to someone else its good race craft when someone does it to Rossi it was a dodgy cheap move.

And I mean that from Rossi's point of view no ones on the forums here, so don't feel as though that was aimed at someone.



We had an interesting article here (Brisbane, Australia) that quoted Rossi as saying that they need to move the time the PI GP was held (month) as it was too dangerous in those conditions (wind etc), yet everyone else seemed to do just fine.



Funny isn't it



Cheers



Gecko Hunter
 
Jumkie all you need to do is go back and watch Jerez and Sachsenring races this year and if you have already watched those races then i can't see your comments where you have called Jorge and Casey dirty and dangerous.
 
Gecko Hunter said:
At Laguna Rossi refused to admit he was very very lucky that he had Stoner to run into.



Simple as that.



The only thing that is consistent here is that when Rossi does it to someone else its good race craft when someone does it to Rossi it was a dodgy cheap move.

And I mean that from Rossi's point of view no ones on the forums here, so don't feel as though that was aimed at someone.



We had an interesting article here (Brisbane, Australia) that quoted Rossi as saying that they need to move the time the PI GP was held (month) as it was too dangerous in those conditions (wind etc), yet everyone else seemed to do just fine.



Funny isn't it



Cheers



Gecko Hunter
Click to expand...



Lizard Man



Rossi didn't need Stoner to run into at Laguna Seca. He woud have made the corner anyway. Stoner's desire to blast past on the outside led to that impact. He should have hung back slightly and shot through on the inside. The heat's getting to you.



As for Jumkie's fourteen essays and counting on the topic of Rossi's desparate and dirty move. You know I'd interpreted them being that Jumkie was trying to convert the 'boppers' to his viewpoint which would never happen. I'm sure that the 'boppers' would concede however that Jumkie is entitled to his opinion on the matter and that it doesn't have to be the same as theirs.
 
Gecko Hunter said:
We had an interesting article here (Brisbane, Australia) that quoted Rossi as saying that they need to move the time the PI GP was held (month) as it was too dangerous in those conditions (wind etc), yet everyone else seemed to do just fine.



Funny isn't it



Cheers



Gecko Hunter
Click to expand...



This was through the riders safety commission and many riders were asking for the change as they had only one dry session prior to the race.
 
Pinky said:
no other rider on the grid has a chance of even winning a race let alone a championship on the ducati as it is now
Click to expand...





I agree that no other rider currently on a ducati has a chance of even winning a race let alone a championship on the ducati as it is now.
 
woody996 said:
Lizard Man



Rossi didn't need Stoner to run into at Laguna Seca. He woud have made the corner anyway. Stoner's desire to blast past on the outside led to that impact. He should have hung back slightly and shot through on the inside. The heat's getting to you.



As for Jumkie's fourteen essays and counting on the topic of Rossi's desparate and dirty move. You know I'd interpreted them being that Jumkie was trying to convert the 'boppers' to his viewpoint which would never happen. I'm sure that the 'boppers' would concede however that Jumkie is entitled to his opinion on the matter and that it doesn't have to be the same as theirs.
Click to expand...



Lizard Man...I'm actually laughing at that, its pretty funny.



Seriously though "the heat" as you put it isnt getting to me at all.

I'm quite a laid back guy and I'm feeling pretty laid back right now
<




Seriously though it really does seem like one case for Rossi and a different set of rules for the others.

I like Rossi, I have been a fan for ages how can you not admire the guy?

Not many ppl as skillful come along very often and the motorcycle world is seriously blessed to have someone this good still riding.



I do feel however that this has gone to his head just a wee bit.



Rossi did screw up big time at Laguna I don't care what anyone says, he was very very lucky, he did not deliberately run across the dirt and if he or anyone else says he did it on purpose is full of .....



Yeah Casey did get hot under the collar after that but its up to the rider coming back onto the track to give way not the guys who didnt screw up and run off it.



Anyway Laguna was a long time ago and regardless what the individual view point is it provided awsome entertainment regardless of who you go for.



As far as PI Rossi was the only one quoted in the Courier mail and regardless of how you look at it Rossi was beaten by the conditions and the other riders. The conditions where just the same for everyone and he can't blame a crap bike and well the injury thing he seems to be handling that just fine now doesn't he?



And if I recall did I see Rossi get a bit cranky at a back marker for blocking him?



Isn't this the same thing Casey got a roasting for on this forum previously?



Interesting how no one bagged Rossi for that one.



He did do a great job getting to where he did and for the record I think the move he pulled on Nicky was fair and that the only thing Nicky didn't do was give Rossi a written invitation (I was actually going for Nicky as well).



Anyway just my opinion



Cheers



Lizard Man
<
 
inam said:
No, i meant championship you noob. I wasn't aware that we have people with your IQ level on this forum next time i will be more clear with my statements
wink.gif
Click to expand...



So...if Stoner can win a race on the Duc then he has no excuse for not winning the championship? Did I understand you correctly? Y'know, me being a noob an all? I just want to clarify. Could you be more clear, please? People with my IQ level often have trouble deciphering the logic of morons...
 
Jumkie said:
I had a long conversation about it with CK (who is more in agreement with Rog but not quite as crazy as the crazies, u know who they are) and i got to thinking. He asked why dont others aliens use the tactic of lundging on inside then forcing other wide? This seems to b more typical of Rossi, at least in recent memory. He basically concluded, its becuz VR is willing to do anything to win and felt thats the key to success.
Click to expand...

CK has a very good point. I don't totally agree in this situation as anyone of the aliens would do the same move if they thougt they could get away with it.

We see it more often from Rossi because he does more passes than anyone. (Failed starts, bad qualies...)

If uv read my posts here, ive pretty much said same thing.
Click to expand...

No you didn't. Read your posts. Lacking integrity, dirty, desperate is NOT synonyms of willingness to win. If you used ruthlessness and rough racing we could come to some sort of agreement but what you've been arguing are very different from what you quote CK on.

The peeps arguing me simply cant accept anybody's characterization of Rossi's race craft as anything other than sublime. They r the same peeps that say Gibs, Stones, r ....... and now JLo for complaining, but also will b quick to tag Elias as incorrect and dangerous in their respective incidents. Who is right when ther is an obvious inconsistency in the logic? Perhaps its just a difference of opinion. Perhaps...
Click to expand...

Well, you could argue that his race craft weren't on top when he took out Melandri or DePuniet but instead you attack Rossi on defined points when he turn around a race at the last lap/last turn without taking someone out, and within the rules. It might be ruthless and hard but it's hardly lack of integrity. The pass on Hayden were nothing like dirty or desperate while the infamous pass on Sete might be called a bit dirty and even desperate if you take a certain poster's definition. None of those passes are sublime, they are not even even esthetically pretty to look at but they do have a certain beauty in that they settles the score at the latest moment possible. CK was right, he has the will to win, and only a fool leave him a glimpse of an opening and believe he can get away with it.



Should we discuss the incidents at PI or inconsistency among Rossi fans, Rossi himself or even better, Jumkie's inconsistencies?
<
 
Gecko Hunter said:
Lizard Man...I'm actually laughing at that, its pretty funny.



Seriously though "the heat" as you put it isnt getting to me at all.

I'm quite a laid back guy and I'm feeling pretty laid back right now
<




Seriously though it really does seem like one case for Rossi and a different set of rules for the others.

I like Rossi, I have been a fan for ages how can you not admire the guy?

Not many ppl as skillful come along very often and the motorcycle world is seriously blessed to have someone this good still riding.



I do feel however that this has gone to his head just a wee bit.



Rossi did screw up big time at Laguna I don't care what anyone says, he was very very lucky, he did not deliberately run across the dirt and if he or anyone else says he did it on purpose is full of .....



Yeah Casey did get hot under the collar after that but its up to the rider coming back onto the track to give way not the guys who didnt screw up and run off it.



Anyway Laguna was a long time ago and regardless what the individual view point is it provided awsome entertainment regardless of who you go for.



As far as PI Rossi was the only one quoted in the Courier mail and regardless of how you look at it Rossi was beaten by the conditions and the other riders. The conditions where just the same for everyone and he can't blame a crap bike and well the injury thing he seems to be handling that just fine now doesn't he?



And if I recall did I see Rossi get a bit cranky at a back marker for blocking him?



Isn't this the same thing Casey got a roasting for on this forum previously?



Interesting how no one bagged Rossi for that one.



He did do a great job getting to where he did and for the record I think the move he pulled on Nicky was fair and that the only thing Nicky didn't do was give Rossi a written invitation (I was actually going for Nicky as well).



Anyway just my opinion



Cheers



Lizard Man
<
Click to expand...



Good to see that you have a sense of humour Lizard Man. The heat reference was a sunny Queensland shot - me being in cold old Sydney at the moment.



As for Laguna, a long time ago now I know. Rossi did go in too hot but didn't have much choice about his re-entry to the track. It wasn't like he had time to look around and change his line while on the dirt for that tenth of a second or whatever it was.



I believe in one set of rules for all and I don't think anyone on here honestly wants one rider to just be allowed to do whatever they like. I'm not convinced that's the case so next time someone gets a warning for something that Rossi has got away with, I'll be the first to say that the wrong thing has happened.



I'm sure another rider or two said the same things as Rossi regarding the weather but being Rossi, it was mentioned in the news. You know how little attention mainstream Australian media pays to MotoGP (with the exception of Channel 10). End of the day, Rossi didn't get his bike setup well enough in the space of time that all riders had to do the same. Noone to blame other than himself and I don't think he was blaming anyone else.



Other riders were commenting that the wind was causing them to lose the front coming down the straight or into turn one. That is pretty dangerous given the speed involved. As to whether or not the event should be held in October - are the conditions like that every year or was it unusually bad weather??? I tend to think it is the latter. When would be an alternative time to hold it - push the Superbikes out in April.



I did comment on Rossi waving his fist towards Asparagus but in slightly different words. I said that he'd better not do it every second week otherwise he'd get a reputation. With that would come plenty of comments on Powerslide (and I'm sure Rossi pays a lot of attention to this site).



If you recall the bashing of Stoner regarding fist waving, it was happening every second event. Around the same time Spies had a fist wave and a couple of others did as well but it wasn't a frequent event so they didn't trigger the same reaction.
 

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