Australian GP **RACE**

Jumkie said:

Jane, my point doesnt hinge on Nics public opinion. Btw, ur same logic applys to Lorenzo. Like Rossiesky trying to hinge on contact while ignoring the block then taking Nicky wide. (While hes at it, ask him to put up a vid of VR's pass at MG corner, then tell me if this is reminicent of Elias' on Rossi, something Vale called "dangerous). Dont get stuck in isolation but look at the broad picture of VR's typical MO. Then u begin to see the tactic. My opinionis is its desperate and dirty tactic, perhaps ur opinion is thats standard racecraft. Perhaps u choose to call it shrewd or some other discription. I had a long conversation about it with CK (who is more in agreement with Rog but not quite as crazy as the crazies, u know who they are) and i got to thinking. He asked why dont others aliens use the tactic of lundging on inside then forcing other wide? This seems to b more typical of Rossi, at least in recent memory. He basically concluded, its becuz VR is willing to do anything to win and felt thats the key to success. If uv read my posts here, ive pretty much said same thing. Except ive charcterized that tactic as lacking integrity. I dont believe for one second that the other top riders simply dont posses the skill to lundge inside then put the other rider in the predicament of having to concede or risk crash. So why dont they employ this tactic more frequently (as i seen Rossi do). So im left with two options from my pondering. Its either balls or respect for a certain level of race etiquette. Notice how race etiquette has been dismissed by most of my antagonists. But is this a feasable & valid idea to consider? I contest that Casey Lorenzo and Nicky wer not punted becuz of their superior skill, Gibers was not so lucky. So ive concluded that these other three chose not to employ such counter tactics. Why? I speculate its bcuz of their understanding of what is acceptable race craft and perhaps the thought of running a guy wide leading to a possible crash is unconscionable. Its clear Rossi has a different understanding of race craft. According to CK, ends justify means in this game. Btw, Lorenzo has said, given the chance, he will race Rossi like Rossi. What does this mean? Well if the rider's opinion means anything, as is the premise of ur post, then take a closer look at what Rossi himself said about Elias at Turkey. He said Elias' crowding of him was "dangerous". Interesting, the man alludes to a certain unwritten rule of race craft, right? So why doesnt this apply to his moves? I suppose peeps can say, well thats becuz Elias was dangerous. Says who? Rossi and his fans? Elias thought it was fair. At Laguna Stoner felt Rossi was dangerous, Rossi thought it was fair. Same same as Lorenzo at Motegi. Well my opinion is his tactic at PI was dirty and dangerous. His fans think it was fair. Rossi, well of course he thinks it was goodfaith racecraft, but then again, he told us same thing about Gibers, Stones, & Lorenz, but called Elias dangerous, so that should giv u an idea of his perspective. Nicky, no complaints. So whos 'opinion' is right? And thats what its boiled down to, a diff of opinion. The peeps arguing me simply cant accept anybody's characterization of Rossi's race craft as anything other than sublime. They r the same peeps that say Gibs, Stones, r ....... and now JLo for complaining, but also will b quick to tag Elias as incorrect and dangerous in their respective incidents. Who is right when ther is an obvious inconsistency in the logic? Perhaps its just a difference of opinion. Perhaps...



(i was about done with the topic, and was just having fun now with the unreasonable crazies, but for u, i giv this reply. )

Click to expand...

notabikerther4useless said:

Those riders include Hayden (a world champion), Capirossi (a world champion and multiple race winner), and Melandri (a multiple race winner).

Click to expand...

chopperman said:

You kesh,BM and pov make out hayden was put in the gravel or something. There was barely any contact what so ever, and what little there was was on the exit meaning hayden left the door open. it was hard but fair. It was to be expected when your on the last lap fighting for the podium. If this were any other riders than vr and hayden you would not be having this debate. You ask for close exciting racing week in week out in the gp threads. you get some close racing and all you lot can do is ..... about it. As far as i can see it's only you 4 complaining ! Maybe haydeen will learn to defend his lines when theres a podium at stake.  I sometimes wonder what exactly you lot want to see in racing "no please after you sir"

get over it !

Click to expand...

Gecko Hunter said:

At Laguna Rossi refused to admit he was very very lucky that he had Stoner to run into.



Simple as that.



The only thing that is consistent here is that when Rossi does it to someone else its good race craft when someone does it to Rossi it was a dodgy cheap move.And I mean that from Rossi's point of view no ones on the forums here, so don't feel as though that was aimed at someone.



We had an interesting article here (Brisbane, Australia) that quoted Rossi as saying that they need to move the time the PI GP was held (month) as it was too dangerous in those conditions (wind etc), yet everyone else seemed to do just fine.



Funny isn't it

Cheers



Gecko Hunter

Click to expand...

Keshav said:

Yo Fishy - yer post doesn't make any sense. Type slower.

Click to expand...

Gecko Hunter said:

Lizard Man...I'm actually laughing at that, its pretty funny.



Seriously though "the heat" as you put it isnt getting to me at all.

I'm quite a laid back guy and I'm feeling pretty laid back right now

Seriously though it really does seem like one case for Rossi and a different set of rules for the others.

I like Rossi, I have been a fan for ages how can you not admire the guy?

Not many ppl as skillful come along very often and the motorcycle world is seriously blessed to have someone this good still riding.



I do feel however that this has gone to his head just a wee bit.



Rossi did screw up big time at Laguna I don't care what anyone says, he was very very lucky, he did not deliberately run across the dirt and if he or anyone else says he did it on purpose is full of .....



Yeah Casey did get hot under the collar after that but its up to the rider coming back onto the track to give way not the guys who didnt screw up and run off it.



Anyway Laguna was a long time ago and regardless what the individual view point is it provided awsome entertainment regardless of who you go for.



As far as PI Rossi was the only one quoted in the Courier mail and regardless of how you look at it Rossi was beaten by the conditions and the other riders. The conditions where just the same for everyone and he can't blame a crap bike and well the injury thing he seems to be handling that just fine now doesn't he?



And if I recall did I see Rossi get a bit cranky at a back marker for blocking him?



Isn't this the same thing Casey got a roasting for on this forum previously?



Interesting how no one bagged Rossi for that one.



He did do a great job getting to where he did and for the record I think the move he pulled on Nicky was fair and that the only thing Nicky didn't do was give Rossi a written invitation (I was actually going for Nicky as well).

Anyway just my opinion



Cheers



Lizard Man

Click to expand...

Pinky said:

when rossi looses its dangerous, when he wins its hard racing... rossi is the ultimate hacker

Click to expand...

Jumkie said:

(i was about done with the topic, and was just having fun now with the unreasonable crazies, but for u, i giv this reply. )

Click to expand...

notabikerther4useless said:

I'll take a wager that Stoner wins one before Rossi does. How's that for fair?



You're right though, Stoner doesn't win them all - he just wins more than anyone else.

Click to expand...

xx CURVE xx said:

Click to expand...

Babelfish said:

It sure does make sense. I just called your bluff when you got so hung up how easy the "dirty" block passes are yhat they are even done in club racing. At the same time you claim that a clean pass are much more difficult. From what you write the only conclusion must be that AMA and club racers in your area are not at the skill level to perform a clean pass. Of course it's not so but it goes to show that what you claim are nothing bur BS. The same passes are done at every level but that doesn't make it relevant to compare a club racers's pass with a motoGP rider's pass even if the pass it self are similar. It takes a whole different level or even set of skills to perform that pass on Hayden than it does on any club racer. No improvement in chassis and tires can offset that.

Click to expand...

MdubSTYLIE said:

BarryMac...the very definition of a hater.

Click to expand...

Keshav said:

I said from the start it was fair and legal - technically. As to the any other rider argument. Not so Mate.

I and a few others complained several times against Simoncelli - whose moves were ....... dangerous

back when he was racing against Aoyama.

Click to expand...

raven46 said:

Its not about wins its about WC's untill Casey has surpassed Valentino you need to stfu

Click to expand...

Gaz said:

So, by this logic you should also STFU until your chosen rider (assuming it is VR given your response) has more World titles than:



Angel Nieto - 13



Giacomo Agostini - 15

Gaz

Click to expand...

chopperman said:

Yes, and you also slip in the word 'technically' along with the other word you used 'desperate' it build's a picture of you disapproval. I really cant see why any 'race fan' would disapprove of that move now especially after the video and photographic evidence posted show this was a very sweet, calculated and successful pass that earned him the podium. i thought we all loved close technical racing.

Click to expand...