Aragon GP 2011: RACE

Willski said:

Ain't that we all want Pov ? Racing ? Then again, I suppose not. If you are Stoner fan then it must be great seeing him dominate. If you were a Rossi fan, the last decade must have been fun too. I try to watch as much bike racing ( in all forms ) as i can. I try and attend 2 GP's a year, a WSB round and as many BSB rounds as I can get to.



I think we all understand that there is a difference between prototype racing and controlled racing and I do not want one to become the other either. we also understand that having the best equipment is generally the key to success in this series. The problem for me is that currently, the other two races which happen on a Sunday are a better watch.



The word 'Boring' has been used on here numerous time this season to describe the MotoGP season so far. I don't find it boring to watch Stoner ( or the dominant machinery ) kick .... Its awesome to watch this guy ride a bike whether you love or hate him. I don't find it boring to watch Rossi and Hayden go through the trials and tribulations of getting the Ducati fixed. I don't find it boring at all....But watching 40 guys battling for every corner of ever lap until the flap comes out is a better watch in my opinion.



I do keep an eye on the DSB when I can get it !

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That about sums it up for me too. Tight close racing is what we all want, BUT! GP is what it is and what we get is GP!

Must add, a boring GP at home is never boring when at the track!

Jumkie said:

You didn't read what I said. Of course the #1 guy gets the bits, but I'm saying to 'prevent' the other guy from getting them is ......... Big difference. That's what I'm saying.



I don't think I was that subtle about the power. There are many ways to manipulate the system and all within the rules. Believe what you want. You cant tell me two guys have the same power all day long, then in a drag race see one pull away, you can go on believing the .........



There is a Moto2 race thread, spoil there. I left out names on purpose.

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Jumkie, you of all people [ i think] know that there are numerous variables that contribute to acceleration and top speed. You are aware that Marquez is much smaller than the guys he was battling with. When i say much smaller, im talking 15 to 25 pounds. That kind of difference on a small bore bike with very little torque is huge. Not only is he lighter, he is shorter, [possibly better aero],. It has been decided that tire preservation was important this weekend on a dirty track. Less weight = better tires at the end =better drive out of corner etc:. Also, do you know what gearing he had compared to the other riders. Would it surprise you to know that he didnt have the highest trap speed on the day. You are way to quick to claim conspiracy, especially for someone who follows racing.

BarryMachine said:

No shortage of entertainment for us Stoner fans, its only you boppers who are sooking/crying/whinging.

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really 6 minutes of tv coverage was enough for you cause thats all Stoner got after he got away ..i much more would have like to see Jorge "i give up" Lorenzo fight for the win with him...... anyone for that matter..that was a boring ....... race especially after the Moto 2 madness.





and the Repsol livery looked like The Great Pumpkin Charlie Brown took a .... on a Honda

MotoGP is eerily similar to F1 this season, both have guys that have pretty much run away with the championship. I haven't watched much of either.

Jumkie said:

Pedro, you will be replaced in a couple of years, enjoy having the second best place in the hearts of the series organizers. Your days of never making it are numbered.

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Who's going to replace him -- Lorenzo? Don't think he's ready to abandon the tuning fork people yet.



Stoner, Lorenzo and Pedrosa won't lack factory rides for the foreseeable future. And as someone already mentioned, Pedrosa is more popular than Lorenzo -- his standing with Spaniards and Repsol is fine as it is.

Beef Supreme said:

Who's going to replace him -- Lorenzo? Don't think he's ready to abandon the tuning fork people yet.

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Marquez will replace him.

eltoro said:

MotoGP is eerily similar to F1 this season, both have guys that have pretty much run away with the championship. I haven't watched much of either.

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Your simply not a fan of either. The whiners brought down AMA Superbike, and the whiners will bring down Moto GP with their demands for spec racing and close championships.

mylexicon said:

The definition of race is not in jeopardy, but the definition of sport or competition might be in trouble. If many people are inspired to compete by thoughtfully written rules and commercial rights agreements, the competitors will finish relatively close to one another. As it stands right now, the space race was closer than the GP at Aragon.



If you ignore the logical outcome of properly constructed racing rules, the sport turns into an annoying cultural dichotomy. One political affiliation support heinous, tear-inducing boredom b/c it is "pure" racing. A different political group use spec regulations and performance balancing to create a cheap sport that is fair for everyone. The method and the result are inextricable. If you ignore the paint-drying affair you have just witnessed, you only make it easier for the NASCAR crowd to take control of the sport.



I wouldn't compare human-contests to motorsports either. Time takes its toll on the human body so anomalies are celebrated as developmental achievements. Corporations are more indelible, and, for decades, their prototype motorsports developments have actually been purchased from other brilliant minds.

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Yes i forgot, motorsports racing doesnt have a human element Its really pretty simple, if you dont like it, make a stand and quit watching. That would save the true fans of GP the weekly whining and bitching, and free up you and other whiners to actually go and make a difference

Jumkie said:

Oh, and as far as spec engines my ....

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Jumkie said:

I don't think I was that subtle about the power. There are many ways to manipulate the system and all within the rules. Believe what you want. You cant tell me two guys have the same power all day long, then in a drag race see one pull away, you can go on believing the .........

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Jumkie your points above strike me as very odd. Firstly you of all people know how many variables there are that determine how fast a rider is on the straight. I'm not sure about the details of the moto2 rules but i don't know how many of the ancillary components are free for teams to modify for themselves, but no doubt these things will have an effect on efficiency. Then there is gearing, aerodynamics, weight, geometry, suspension setup, tyre performance (that will vary depending on setup and rider), weight and thats before we even consider riding style and technique. Despite all of these things you have written a post that states the aparent advantage could well have been obtained 'well within the rules' while clearly seeming to suggest that something underhanded is going on. Would you care to be more specific about what you suspect is actually happening and why you feel all other logical factors are not worth mentioning?



I know that you get frustrated with the politics of the gp world, but it seems to me you go out of your way to resist praise uppon riders that are popular, well funded and generally favoured. We can all appreciate the value of an underdog but you seem to go to reasonably extreme lengths, often bordering on discrediting the riders who are in good positions. It is nice to be an idealist and value the spirit of certain rules, and the sporting side of motorcycle racing but you have to be realistic. It is a competition, it is a business and it is a ruthless cruel arena. Not all riders get the same opportunities, not all riders get the same support but that does not necessarily mean the rider in question hasn't earned it, they don't deserve it or that their performance is unworthy of admiration.



I understand that you feel the casual fans may miss these intricacies, but most of us on here are well aware of them and a lot of those who don't know may not even care, and don't need to. Everyone appreciates a supply of information about what really goes on, but we can make our own minds up of what to do with that information don't you think?

povol said:

Your simply not a fan of either. The whiners brought down AMA Superbike, and the whiners will bring down Moto GP with their demands for spec racing and close championships.

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I'm not a fan because I want to see close racing? Did I say anything about spec racing in my post or demanding things to be changed? I simply said it is not entertaining at all to see someone dominating a championship. I fully acknowledge some riders/drivers have that special talent to do so, but I do not personally find it entertaining.

woody996 said:

Marquez will replace [Pedrosa].

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Even if he ends up in MotoGP next year, as a rookie Marquez will have to start in a satellite team, and typically the way the #2 HRC rider gets replaced is when a satellite rider is faster. Maybe Marquez will be faster than Pedrosa, but so far there isn't much evidence that being brilliant in Moto2 leads to brilliance in MotoGP. Nakamoto has been pretty supportive of Pedrosa throughout the season, even with all the injuries.



I think hatred of Puig is causing a little wishful thinking Pedrosa will be frog-marched out of the HRC paddock.

eltoro said:

I'm not a fan because I want to see close racing? Did I say anything about spec racing in my post or demanding things to be changed? I simply said it is not entertaining at all to see someone dominating a championship. I fully acknowledge some riders/drivers have that special talent to do so, but I do not personally find it entertaining.

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If you quit watching a sport because it doesnt meet your entertainment values, your not a fan of that sport. You simply want to be entertained. I am a fan of Moto GP, i would never quit watching it because my favorite rider is stuggling, or if the championship was not close. If i want to be entertained, i will hire a juggling clown that will perform exactly as i want.

povol said:

You simply want to be entertained

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The 800 formula has led to more processional racing, there's no argument about that, and it's not unreasonable to look back at the early 990s and 500s and wonder how changes to the current regulations can bring back some of that racing. Even during Doohan's era the racing was closer than it is now.

Beef Supreme said:

Even if he ends up in MotoGP next year, as a rookie Marquez will have to start in a satellite team, and typically the way the #2 HRC rider gets replaced is when a satellite rider is faster. Maybe Marquez will be faster than Pedrosa, but so far there isn't much evidence that being brilliant in Moto2 leads to brilliance in MotoGP. Nakamoto has been pretty supportive of Pedrosa throughout the season, even with all the injuries.



I think hatred of Puig is causing a little wishful thinking Pedrosa will be frog-marched out of the HRC paddock.

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If Repsol pushes for Marquez, it will be Marquez. The Pedrosa experiment is running out of time in their eyes., Stoner winning the title could actually save Pedrosa's ... in Hondas eyes. There can only be one champion, and all Honda cares about is that its a factory Honda. Its Repsol that is desperate for a Spanish champ.

povol said:

If you quit watching a sport because it doesnt meet your entertainment values, your not a fan of that sport. You simply want to be entertained. I am a fan of Moto GP, i would never quit watching it because my favorite rider is stuggling, or if the championship was not close. If i want to be entertained, i will hire a juggling clown that will perform exactly as i want.

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Do you not think there are fans who want to be 'entertained' by competition? Do you not think competitive events/sports want to give a product that is entertaining? Clearly everyone has their definition of 'entertaining'. Some people like seeing a competitor dominate an event/competition, others do not find that entertaining. You say whiners are annoying, but I personally find people like you who arrogantly throw around 'You're not a fan! I'm a fan because I follow it no matter what!' just as annoying.

The problem with all the guys here that think and give the stupid excuse that the racing is boring is this…they have the ..... that Stoner is just too good and too fast and is the best rider!

Get off the grass all you guys and just accept that Stoner is the quickest and unbeatable when he’s focused and that seems to be every other weekend.

If you’re bored with the motogp then go and watch something else and don’t come on here and air you’re usual boring opinions which come to the fore every time a rider leads the championship like Stoner is like Rossi did and Doohan did…how fucken boring are you guys!

povol said:

If you quit watching a sport because it doesnt meet your entertainment values, your not a fan of that sport. You simply want to be entertained. I am a fan of Moto GP, i would never quit watching it because my favorite rider is stuggling, or if the championship was not close. If i want to be entertained, i will hire a juggling clown that will perform exactly as i want.

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I understand you Povol. Racing ebbs and flows. Take sbk for example. Spies vs Haga was one of the best seasons ever imo. This year its the same rules, same bikes but Checa vs Biaggi is not quite the same. But thats just the way it goes, no use whinging about it.



Just watching any rider at over 60% lean angle I find more than entertaining. They raise the hairs on the back of my neck every race.



What we are seeing now is GFC hit racing. .... happens, it will recover with time. Yamaha dont have the funds to develop both this years and next years bikes. Therefore no new engines. Honda have to win this year to get one 800 title. Whats wrong with that? People dont want seamless shift gearboxes? I'll take one.



I understand the push to go back to 1000 to lower costs, but take out the GFC and I'd even prefer to see them go to 700cc rather than 1000cc to continue the development side, the more radical the bikes the better.

flawless ride from stoner again!, lorenzo did wll to claw back some positions.... very impressed with bautista pushing the zuki hard.



rossi did ok considering the starting possition, not a bad race really but only for because of the guys fighting for sixth.



only just watched the race but missed fp's and QP... another crazy busy weekend, im getting punished lol.



the repsol design for this weekend was a dam joke!

Beef TACO said:

Even if he ends up in MotoGP next year, as a rookie Marquez will have to start in a satellite team, and typically the way the #2 HRC rider gets replaced is when a satellite rider is faster. Maybe Marquez will be faster than Pedrosa, but so far there isn't much evidence that being brilliant in Moto2 leads to brilliance in MotoGP. Nakamoto has been pretty supportive of Pedrosa throughout the season, even with all the injuries.



I think hatred of Puig is causing a little wishful thinking Pedrosa will be frog-marched out of the HRC paddock.

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I see you just started to watch motogp last year. Let me give a quick history lesson. 2006 Dani Pedrosa entered motopg @ repsol Honda. 2006 Nicky Hayden became the last 990cc world champion for repsol Honda. During Hayden campaign for the 06 title. He was forced to develope parts to benefit Pedrosa in 2 ways.



1) It would slow down Hayden during 06 so Dani could win the 06 title "those of us who was watching will remember the clutch issues", amoung a few others.



2) The parts that Hayden was developing would be for the minature bike presented in 2007. That bike being built specially for Dani Pedrosa.





So please tell me there taco supreme. What has Pedrosa done for HRC/repsol since 2007???? The short answer is NOTHING!!! He has done nothing but blame the bike and others for his failure. Knowing that Repsol & HRC has given him everthing he asked for and failed to deliver. Please explain to the rest of us why Pedrosa will be at HRC in 2013? Take a closer look at what Stoner is doing on a bike that was built for Pedrosa.





Maybe Marquez will be faster than Pedrosa, but so far there isn't much evidence that being brilliant in Moto2 leads to brilliance in MotoGP. A statement like this only proves you just started to watch Grand Prix racing. Did you see him back in 125?? Also, did you see the first couple of moto2 races with Marc?





I think hatred of Puig is causing a little wishful thinking Pedrosa will be frog-marched out of the HRC paddock. You might wanna pull the rose colored glasses off.







Nakamoto has been pretty supportive of Pedrosa throughout the season, It's called professionalism! That is what you do when you are at the top. Something that alberto puig/pig needs to learn.





Even if he ends up in MotoGP next year, as a rookie Marquez will have to start in a satellite team, One name for you there grasshopper, Nastro Azzurro!!!!!





FYI, you can subscribe to motogp.com & catch up on all those races you never saw.

.

birdman said:

I understand you Povol. Racing ebbs and flows. Take sbk for example. Spies vs Haga was one of the best seasons ever imo. This year its the same rules, same bikes but Checa vs Biaggi is not quite the same. But thats just the way it goes, no use whinging about it.



Just watching any rider at over 60% lean angle I find more than entertaining. They raise the hairs on the back of my neck every race.



What we are seeing now is GFC hit racing. .... happens, it will recover with time. Yamaha dont have the funds to develop both this years and next years bikes. Therefore no new engines. Honda have to win this year to get one 800 title. Whats wrong with that? People dont want seamless shift gearboxes? I'll take one.



I understand the push to go back to 1000 to lower costs, but take out the GFC and I'd even prefer to see them go to 700cc rather than 1000cc to continue the development side, the more radical the bikes the better.

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That is true, its not the same, but i did not quit watching like some would., Thats called a fair weather fan