good race by stoner. nice to see lorenzo really put the effort in to try and keep the championship interesting. the boy just doesn't go down easy. spies ... damnit man, wtf.
Joined Aug 2008
6K Posts | 748+
Thailand
I'm with SoD - FUGLY!!!!!
Come on dudes... What's the one thing everyone's noticed about PieMan this year... .....-... starts!!! Well no farkin comment? The boy NAILED the start. Huge, colossal, order-of-magnitude improvement and no comments. Yeah he didn't have the race-pace but he rocked the start, bodes well.
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
I hope you were kidding. hahaha. That livery looked like something like a kids cereal box. The numbers were the best thing, as I think they use black electrical tape at last minute. hehe
Ok, a few thoughts. Can we please replace Moto2 as the premier class? Wow, that race was unbelievable 3/4 of a race. Btw, I'd like to add, perhaps one of the most honest journalist I've read says in the same breath, 'yeah, that guy has the updates and they are being withheld from the other chaps...but hey, he's fast so.... (my sarcastic interpretation) perhaps he deserves it. Perhaps it wouldn't be a good idea for said journalist to call it ........, I wouldn't recommend it myself, but I'll say it, I call ......... haha. Oh, and as far as spec engines my .... Good kid, I like him, but c'mon, this is NOT a spec engine regardless of what they say on paper.
On to the "boring" race, MotoGP.
On to the BIG story (as Kropo says)...Rossi's pit lane start. Looked genius for first part of the race, then not so much at the end. But if one thing Rossi has, its cosmic luck, and thanks to Abraham's crash, plus Aoyama and Crutchlow battling (and what looked like contact) he sneaked past Hiroshi, which made his finishing order look better. This should highlight the fact that the aluminum add on is not the silver bullet they had hoped for and looks like just another development piece to scrap. Of course, I fully expect Gpone to suggest Rossi intended to finish low so as to send the message to Ducati that this scrap of soda cans attached to the front is not the answer. What I don't get is, why make this aluminum piece and take the penalty is they intend to build a full Yamaha frame later? We already know they are not looking to improve the 800, so why try this little improvement (which turned out to be no improvement) while still taking a pitlane start? Wouldn't have been better to stick to the GP11.1 and finish the season? Or is the thinking, lets try this little aluminum piece so we can eliminate it as a possible solution for next year? Is that what they are thinking? Well, at least they got a fresh engine out of it.
Continuing with Ducati...so will Nicky now have to eventually start from pit lane? According to what I've read, he will not get the "improved" aluminum piece. Which I'd like to add here, that despite the fact these "improvements" have not been so much of an improvement, once Nicky has got them, he's actually out performed Rossi on that evolution of the new piece (barring tire issues). I think they should start asking the frame manufacture to deliver some form of the twin-spar frame immediately and fit it to the bikes. Take the engine penalties every race from here on out and develop for 2012 in complete and absolute haste. (No, I don't think that's what they are doing yet, this aluminum piece was partly to improve the 800, they fully intend to use a twin-spar for next year, because if they don't, next year will be another complete disaster of BACKWARD development.) These little .... non-improvements are wasting valuable time and resources. Something that Rossi/Burgess are not use to understanding the limited nature of money and time. Sky has always been the limit, but even the great Rossi can't add hours and days to the Gregorian calendar (that means he can't add time to the 365 day year). In my layman opinion, they should top at this very moment developing the 800 in any shape or form. Everything that is tested from here on out should be 1000 bound.
Oh, about the race, I almost forgot there was one. Stoner is the only alien in MotoGP. Anybody who disagrees with this, I think less of your opinion.
And to my Aussie friends, you can admire the ability of Stoner all you want, but understand that "racing" is another aspect of the show, and frankly, the show sucks. Even if Stoner would to slow down (Mick ref), the show would still suck because its just a procession for most of the depleted field. This is what people mean by "boring". Its NOT and inditement on Stoner, as much as a couple of you get butt hurt. Now personally, I don't find the races boring in that way, but the racing IS boring. I'm on the edge of my seat the entire race because something can always happen, like a crash or something. Plus the sheer talent displaced by the riders on the edge is astonishing. Not to mention this new super slow motion that is quite amazing. So if you were to hook up a heart rate machine on me while watching the race, you wouldn't believe just how excited I am until the last finisher crossed the line. Today I watched the Moto2 race after the MotoGP race, and the contrast was so stark that it made me feel like I had just watched the main event of a series. I actually felt tired after Moto2. God only ones what my heart rate was during that fantastic race, I'm almost thankful it tapered off at the end because I may have gone into cardiac arrest.
Lorenzo, I've become a fan. He is battling to stay alive, and though what we are witnessing are "kicks of a drowning man" (as my dad use to say); he hasn't accepted the inevitable outcome of this year's championship. Good on him.
Dovi, I feel bad for him. His leverage on the bargaining table is quickly evaporating.
Spies, disappointing. Decent start for about 100 meters, then what?
Pedro, you will be replaced in a couple of years, enjoy having the second best place in the hearts of the series organizers. Your days of never making it are numbered.
Elias, BMW sucks but you have no choice.
Abraham, I admire your determination and it should be rewarded, but if you lease a Ducati next year, you're wasting your money, talent, and the little good will you've earned.
Rossi, he will be on a Jap bike in 2013.
Nicky, your career has been wasted on GP power politics.
Edit: to add, Barbera, your a chicken .... mothafuker. May I quote Cal Crutchlow... Q: What is your most memorable pass? A: When I passed Barbera, because I don't like him. That makes two of us. haha
Joined Feb 2007
11K Posts | 2K+
Tennessee
Brilliant ride by Stoner, in a class of his own.Won handily last year on the Duc, blew them into the weeds this year on a proper bike. Brilliant strategy by Ducati to take the engine at Aragon. Starting from pit road was hardly a penalty at all compared to where he would have started . The way the track is configured and where pit road joins the track, the penalty was more like 3-4 seconds. Solid ride from Pedro, will soon take his rightful place in the championship. Title is not gone for Lorenzo, but its close. Yamaha needs to throw caution to the wind and lean out their engines, they are woefully slow compared to every bike on the grid. 4 slowest bikes on the grid. As far as the new Ducati, if anything, its worse, at least for now. Even when Rossi had clear track, his lap times were 1.5- 2.0 seconds off the leaders pace. Usually, they are 1.2- 1.5 off pace in q trim, and 7-8 tenths off in race trim. They are going backwards.Spies finally gets a start, now whats the problem. Nicky had a pretty decent ride considering.
The Repsols were hard to miss, bright as hell.
IT WAS WINDY!! Sustained at 30 kph + gusts. Don't know if they commented on it, but it was really blowing. Here in Aragon we have a wind system locally known as "el Cierzo." It blows down the Ebro river valley and it is so prevalent where I live that all the trees grow at an angle!
Anyway, it was a lot colder than yesterday and not pleasant.
I confirm Pedrosa is more liked in Aragon than Lorenzo. Crowd roar when they called out Pedrosa at the starting grid was double Lorenzos. And Lorenzos fan club was down the way in my grandstand. Great race by the top three, bit boring, but the results mirrored the practice. I thought the best ride was by Bautista. He's been steadily progressing with the Suzuki, and todays result was in chilly weather. I'll post some pics in the other thread latter on.
I have a head ache from the ride back. I had el Cierzo as a headwind the entire ride home.
IT WAS WINDY!! Sustained at 30 kph + gusts. Don't know if they commented on it, but it was really blowing. Here in Aragon we have a wind system locally known as "el Cierzo." It blows down the Ebro river valley and it is so prevalent where I live that all the trees grow at an angle!
Anyway, it was a lot colder than yesterday and not pleasant.
I confirm Pedrosa is more liked in Aragon than Lorenzo. Crowd roar when they called out Pedrosa at the starting grid was double Lorenzos. And Lorenzos fan club was down the way in my grandstand. Great race by the top three, bit boring, but the results mirrored the practice. I thought the best ride was by Bautista. He's been steadily progressing with the Suzuki, and todays result was in chilly weather. I'll post some pics in the other thread latter on.
I have a head ache from the ride back. I had el Cierzo as a headwind the entire ride home.
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
Oh, I forgot to add. That fuckng BMW was hauling ... when he passed Abraham and DePuniet's crash and behind Rossi. That quite doesn't seem like a good idea. What the .... is the "safety" car for anyway? Looks to me like a hazard.
Joined Oct 2007
4K Posts | 744+
Tuscany, Italy
Stoner is the new king of MotoGP.
It's not his fault, but he's kind of responsible for the state of depression of all other top riders. Pedrosa is depressed because he can't match his pace on a bike that he (thought he had) developed just for himself. Lorenzo is depressed because he sees that he is powerless against him, and it's not just the bike. Finally, Rossi is depressed because he now has to acknowledge that he cannot be as fast as Stoner on this Ducati, while inventing a new Ducati that will suit him is much more difficult than anticipated.
So Stoner is depressing them all...!
But it's not his fault.
It's not his fault, but he's kind of responsible for the state of depression of all other top riders. Pedrosa is depressed because he can't match his pace on a bike that he (thought he had) developed just for himself. Lorenzo is depressed because he sees that he is powerless against him, and it's not just the bike. Finally, Rossi is depressed because he now has to acknowledge that he cannot be as fast as Stoner on this Ducati, while inventing a new Ducati that will suit him is much more difficult than anticipated.
So Stoner is depressing them all...!
But it's not his fault.
Joined Feb 2007
11K Posts | 2K+
Tennessee
I hope you were kidding. hahaha. That livery looked like something like a kids cereal box. The numbers were the best thing, as I think they use black electrical tape at last minute. hehe
Ok, a few thoughts. Can we please replace Moto2 as the premier class? Wow, that race was unbelievable 3/4 of a race. Btw, I'd like to add, perhaps one of the most honest journalist I've read says in the same breath, 'yeah, that guy has the updates and they are being withheld from the other chaps...but hey, he's fast so.... (my sarcastic interpretation) perhaps he deserves it. Perhaps it wouldn't be a good idea for said journalist to call it ........, I wouldn't recommend it myself, but I'll say it, I call ......... haha. Oh, and as far as spec engines my .... Good kid, I like him, but c'mon, this is NOT a spec engine regardless of what they say on paper.
On to the "boring" race, MotoGP.First of all, I'd like to say its nice to have all my Aussie friends (except you pinky) chiming in. It makes me wonder where all the Rossi fans have gone? Us Hayden fans are still soldiering on in agony, so I'd expect a few Rossi fans to chime in as well.
On to the BIG story (as Kropo says)...Rossi's pit lane start. Looked genius for first part of the race, then not so much at the end. But if one thing Rossi has, its cosmic luck, and thanks to Abraham's crash, plus Aoyama and Crutchlow battling (and what looked like contact) he sneaked past Hiroshi, which made his finishing order look better. This should highlight the fact that the aluminum add on is not the silver bullet they had hoped for and looks like just another development piece to scrap. Of course, I fully expect Gpone to suggest Rossi intended to finish low so as to send the message to Ducati that this scrap of soda cans attached to the front is not the answer. What I don't get is, why make this aluminum piece and take the penalty is they intend to build a full Yamaha frame later? We already know they are not looking to improve the 800, so why try this little improvement (which turned out to be no improvement) while still taking a pitlane start? Wouldn't have been better to stick to the GP11.1 and finish the season? Or is the thinking, lets try this little aluminum piece so we can eliminate it as a possible solution for next year? Is that what they are thinking? Well, at least they got a fresh engine out of it.
Continuing with Ducati...so will Nicky now have to eventually start from pit lane? According to what I've read, he will not get the "improved" aluminum piece. Which I'd like to add here, that despite the fact these "improvements" have not been so much of an improvement, once Nicky has got them, he's actually out performed Rossi on that evolution of the new piece (barring tire issues). I think they should start asking the frame manufacture to deliver some form of the twin-spar frame immediately and fit it to the bikes. Take the engine penalties every race from here on out and develop for 2012 in complete and absolute haste. (No, I don't think that's what they are doing yet, this aluminum piece was partly to improve the 800, they fully intend to use a twin-spar for next year, because if they don't, next year will be another complete disaster of BACKWARD development.) These little .... non-improvements are wasting valuable time and resources. Something that Rossi/Burgess are not use to understanding the limited nature of money and time. Sky has always been the limit, but even the great Rossi can't add hours and days to the Gregorian calendar (that means he can't add time to the 365 day year). In my layman opinion, they should top at this very moment developing the 800 in any shape or form. Everything that is tested from here on out should be 1000 bound.
Oh, about the race, I almost forgot there was one. Stoner is the only alien in MotoGP. Anybody who disagrees with this, I think less of your opinion.
And to my Aussie friends, you can admire the ability of Stoner all you want, but understand that "racing" is another aspect of the show, and frankly, the show sucks. Even if Stoner would to slow down (Mick ref), the show would still suck because its just a procession for most of the depleted field. This is what people mean by "boring". Its NOT and inditement on Stoner, as much as a couple of you get butt hurt. Now personally, I don't find the races boring in that way, but the racing IS boring. I'm on the edge of my seat the entire race because something can always happen, like a crash or something. Plus the sheer talent displaced by the riders on the edge is astonishing. Not to mention this new super slow motion that is quite amazing. So if you were to hook up a heart rate machine on me while watching the race, you wouldn't believe just how excited I am until the last finisher crossed the line. Today I watched the Moto2 race after the MotoGP race, and the contrast was so stark that it made me feel like I had just watched the main event of a series. I actually felt tired after Moto2. God only ones what my heart rate was during that fantastic race, I'm almost thankful it tapered off at the end because I may have gone into cardiac arrest.
Lorenzo, I've become a fan. He is battling to stay alive, and though what we are witnessing are "kicks of a drowning man" (as my dad use to say); he hasn't accepted the inevitable outcome of this year's championship. Good on him.
Dovi, I feel bad for him. His leverage on the bargaining table is quickly evaporating.
Spies, disappointing. Decent start for about 100 meters, then what?
Pedro, you will be replaced in a couple of years, enjoy having the second best place in the hearts of the series organizers. Your days of never making it are numbered.
Elias, BMW sucks but you have no choice.
Abraham, I admire your determination and it should be rewarded, but if you lease a Ducati next year, you're wasting your money, talent, and the little good will you've earned.
Rossi, he will be on a Jap bike in 2013.
Nicky, your career has been wasted on GP power politics.
Edit: to add, Barbera, your a chicken .... mothafuker. May I quote Cal Crutchlow... Q: What is your most memorable pass? A: When I passed Barbera, because I don't like him. That makes two of us. haha
I have zero problem with the obvious lead rider { Marquez] getting the new bits, there is a constuctors title to win also. The next Suter rider is hopelessly out of contention, and has been for a long time. As far as the spec engine, are you insinuating that Marquez has a different spec engine than the other riders. The engines are by rule, handed out randomely, if your suggesting that Dorna is manipulating the system and sneaking Marquez more powerful engines, that is an accusation i cant get on board with. I cant beleive they would risk the whole series to advance his career.
Joined Feb 2008
3K Posts | 470+
Outback Steakhouse
I have been making the error of watching the races live. The problem is that I watch the MOTO2 race and sit on the edge of my seat with a big smile on my face. It's bike RACING ! Then the motogp coverage starts.......the excitment rarely seems to come from the actual racing but from hoping something might happen
Joined Feb 2007
11K Posts | 2K+
Tennessee
While we are on the subject of Moto2, if you dont want to know what is going on, divert your eyes
SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER
We have a championship race now. Only 6 points seperate Bradl and Marquez. I dont know if Bradl has it in him to stem the locomotive tide that Marquez is riding. It looks like he will win it going away. This is one of the most dominant streaks i have ever witnessed. It reminds me of Edwards comeback from seeminly insurmaounatable deficit to win the WSBK title.
SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER
We have a championship race now. Only 6 points seperate Bradl and Marquez. I dont know if Bradl has it in him to stem the locomotive tide that Marquez is riding. It looks like he will win it going away. This is one of the most dominant streaks i have ever witnessed. It reminds me of Edwards comeback from seeminly insurmaounatable deficit to win the WSBK title.
Joined Feb 2007
11K Posts | 2K+
Tennessee
People, thats the difference in Spec racing and Prototype racing. Moto Gp is about dominance of machinery. always has been, and hopefully always will be.We have plenty of spec series, please do not push Moto GP there.In other words, be careful what you wish for, you might just get it. You like Moto 2, watch DSB, it puts Moto2 to shame if close racing is you gig.
New ideas. Valentino confirms its confidence in the Ducati, but now needs a clear response from the House for which he abandoned a winning bike at the end of last year. " I do not know if we need a new chassis, which is the better hand or other material, is not I who have to know, I'm not an engineer" - Rossi
Can someone please sticky the above quote, direct from the horses mouth. A rider does NOT "develop" a bike. they give feedback that is all.
Can someone please sticky the above quote, direct from the horses mouth. A rider does NOT "develop" a bike. they give feedback that is all.
" he (rossi) doesn't come back to his motorhome until 8:30pm, because he is busy in meetings with the engineers. Then, at 8:30 in the morning, he is back with them again"
is that Uccio or his wife speaking
is that Uccio or his wife speaking
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
You didn't read what I said. Of course the #1 guy gets the bits, but I'm saying to 'prevent' the other guy from getting them is ......... Big difference. That's what I'm saying.
I don't think I was that subtle about the power. There are many ways to manipulate the system and all within the rules. Believe what you want. You cant tell me two guys have the same power all day long, then in a drag race see one pull away, you can go on believing the .........
There is a Moto2 race thread, spoil there. I left out names on purpose.
Joined Feb 2008
3K Posts | 470+
Outback Steakhouse
Ain't that we all want Pov ? Racing ? Then again, I suppose not. If you are Stoner fan then it must be great seeing him dominate. If you were a Rossi fan, the last decade must have been fun too. I try to watch as much bike racing ( in all forms ) as i can. I try and attend 2 GP's a year, a WSB round and as many BSB rounds as I can get to.
I think we all understand that there is a difference between prototype racing and controlled racing and I do not want one to become the other either. we also understand that having the best equipment is generally the key to success in this series. The problem for me is that currently, the other two races which happen on a Sunday are a better watch.
The word 'Boring' has been used on here numerous time this season to describe the MotoGP season so far. I don't find it boring to watch Stoner ( or the dominant machinery ) kick .... Its awesome to watch this guy ride a bike whether you love or hate him. I don't find it boring to watch Rossi and Hayden go through the trials and tribulations of getting the Ducati fixed. I don't find it boring at all....But watching 40 guys battling for every corner of ever lap until the flap comes out is a better watch in my opinion.
I do keep an eye on the DSB when I can get it !
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
Today on the behest of Curve, I watched the Moto2 AFTER MotoGP. I walked away feeling like I got my money's worth of racing this weekend. I'm going to do the same next race and next race. I had more fun.
Love that avi buddy!
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
I'm not sure my buddy Pov understands your point, or most people around here understand what close racing means. F1 has been called boring even though they are as technologically advanced and amazing to watch as a space shuttle launch.
As far as prototype racing, I'm not particularly a fan of it. Because most people assign the rider the "best" or "alien" when clearly its been about the mouse trap. This is very annoying to me personally. So I'd rather have a more 'spec-esk' series. The lesson of 2011 is that the package matters. But before 2011, all Ive read is how "alien" Rossi is the GOAT, now he quals in 13th and finishes midpack. Now suddenly eveybody is saying the bike sucks. Why didn't they say the reverse was true before? Its perfectly logical but you'd be hard pressed to see it admitted in the press, much less the laymen spectators.
There are as I understand it, about 5 fairly equal bikes in GP atm. (3 Hondas, 2 Yamahas). Stoner is crushing them. The rest have zero chance even if Allah was ridding them. Well actually, even if Rossi was riding them. That my friend is "prototype" racing. Not a great formula for "racing". There are exceptions however. As the development of the 990s progressed, we had "prototype" racing while the bikes had fair parity resulting in great "racing" (what we want). (Except for the Saturday Night Special, which threw that parity out of the water).
Joined Feb 2007
11K Posts | 2K+
Tennessee
A sport race is a competition of speed, against an objective criterion, usually a clock or to a specific point. The competitors in a race try to complete a given task in the shortest amount of time.
In the definition of 'race' above. Can anyone show me where it mandates that these competitions of speed be close. If the finish between 1st and 2nd is 1/1000th of a second, or 10 seconds, I DONT CARE, as long as advantages are not gained OUTSIDE the technical regulations. Why does Usain Bolt blow our minds, not because he wins a 100 yard dash in record time, its because he wins by margins never seen before in such a short distance. What do we remember Secretariat for, the triple crown of course, but which race was burned into our brain, not the first 2 where he barely beat Sham, its the third where he does the unthinkable, unheard of, impossible, by beating the second best horse in the world by 31 lengths that send chills down your spine. Learn to celebrate excellence and ditch that soccer mom attitude, it will not only make your racing experience much more enjoyable, it would make the world a better place.
In the definition of 'race' above. Can anyone show me where it mandates that these competitions of speed be close. If the finish between 1st and 2nd is 1/1000th of a second, or 10 seconds, I DONT CARE, as long as advantages are not gained OUTSIDE the technical regulations. Why does Usain Bolt blow our minds, not because he wins a 100 yard dash in record time, its because he wins by margins never seen before in such a short distance. What do we remember Secretariat for, the triple crown of course, but which race was burned into our brain, not the first 2 where he barely beat Sham, its the third where he does the unthinkable, unheard of, impossible, by beating the second best horse in the world by 31 lengths that send chills down your spine. Learn to celebrate excellence and ditch that soccer mom attitude, it will not only make your racing experience much more enjoyable, it would make the world a better place.
Sad, but true.
1. The Australian creamsicle rode like a true champ.
2. Pedro is closing in on Dovi for 3rd.
3. Lorenzo did well considering the circumstances.
4. Hairball ran wide.
5. Spies disappointed, looked like he and Simo had the wick up too high at the beginning.
6. Bautista impressed.
7. Hayden rode well.
8. Barbera....I don't like him.
9. Crutchlow showed determination and skill
10. Vale is wasting time and money.
11. Aoyama is underwhelming everyone. WSBK.
12. Randy is happy to finish. WSBK.
13. Colin is trying to stay in one piece for his move to CRT.
DNF - Capirossi needs to retire like JT--effective immediately
DNF - Karma bit Elias in the rearend
DNF - Dovi should be begging Suzuki to let him ride a factory bike
DNF - Abraham needs to build a giant boat and ride out this storm......wait, that was Noah.
The definition of race is not in jeopardy, but the definition of sport or competition might be in trouble. If many people are inspired to compete by thoughtfully written rules and commercial rights agreements, the competitors will finish relatively close to one another. As it stands right now, the space race was closer than the GP at Aragon.
If you ignore the logical outcome of properly constructed racing rules, the sport turns into an annoying cultural dichotomy. One political affiliation support heinous, tear-inducing boredom b/c it is "pure" racing. A different political group use spec regulations and performance balancing to create a cheap sport that is fair for everyone. The method and the result are inextricable. If you ignore the paint-drying affair you have just witnessed, you only make it easier for the NASCAR crowd to take control of the sport.
I wouldn't compare human-contests to motorsports either. Time takes its toll on the human body so anomalies are celebrated as developmental achievements. Corporations are more indelible, and, for decades, their prototype motorsports developments have actually been purchased from other brilliant minds.
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