2024 Gran Premio Estrella Galicia 0,0 de España - Circuit Jerez

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dogfight said:
Learn to analyse free data before jumping to conclusion: https://resources.motogp.com/files/results/2024/SPA/MotoGP/RAC/Analysis.pdf

What MM does after contact:
Lap 22: 1:38:3xx
Lap 23: 1:37:6xx. (3rd personal best in the race)
Lap 24: 1:37:8xx.
Lap 25: 1:37:637 (personal best).

What Pecco does after contact:
Lap 22: 1:38:2xx
Lap 23: 1:37:449 (race record)
Lap 24: 1:37:7xx.
Lap 25: 1:37:7xx.

Marquez post the personal best in the last lap, and 3rd personal best in the 3rd last lap. And you think it is a "maintaining distance" decision ;).

The true story: Marquez has tried everything but Bagnaia had more in the Bag.
Click to expand...
So you are saying Bagnaia let MM catch up so he could crash into him ?.

As I previously said, credit to Bagnaia for 2 great laps, the first and the 23rd, which won him the race.

You are talking a tenth of a second in terms of the late laps, and you may not have noticed that MM caught up 2 seconds or so prior to their contact. We will never know what might have happened had he not lost ground on the first lap but as he would more genuinely say than that other guy, and did say about the tyre marks on his leathers post race, that’s racing, and he partly got shuffled back because of a genius first lap from Bagnaia.

Most on here are veterans of debates with members of the Valeban, in my case going back to the days when Hayden then Stoner were the enemies, and you are no less banal than all the others, with your tactic of making large unsupported assertions while trying to pick minor holes in the arguments of your opponents but ignoring their substantive arguments hardly a new one, nor a method of winning a debate except in your own mind, inside which you are doubtless a legend.

I would say MM is in a similar situation to your boy in 2014, grateful to be back competing towards the front of the field, after nightmare years of non-competitiveness, although in Valentino’s case after being 2 seconds a lap slower than the guy who had just vacated the 2010 Ducati and won races on that horrible bike.

The really amusing thing is that while I am sure MM wouldn’t mind another title or two he iis unlikely imo to go to his grave obsessed with a title he didn’t win as would seem likely to be the case with Rossi and his acolytes on track and those such as you off track, given the ongoing bitterness and rancour constantly on display from him and you/they 9 seasons on from 2015.

I have news for you, while MM may never win a 7th/9th title there is rather more chance of him doing so than Valentino has of winning an 8th/10th title.

It would seem highly likely that irony is a concept foreign to the Valeban, but for me the ironies are dual, firstly that Valentino never needed an 8th title to match Agostini, everyone knew he was better already, and secondly that the theft of the 2015 title is a fiction significantly the result of a fever dream which apparently involved post race analysis by that icon of the sport Uccio. Lorenzo was the guy Valentino needed to beat in those late season races, as well as Pedrosa in several races and Iannone in one.

Your version of the Gibernau curse is hardly novel either, but a reminder to those of us who followed the sport way back then that we should have realised what Rossi was about way sooner.
 
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moto vudu said:
Right, MM knew Jorge was the guy Valentino needed to beat so MM did everything he could to prevent that from happening.

The MM fandom here is really just hatred for Rossi disguised as admiration for Marc. Marquez is easily one of the most dangerous riders to ever participate in the sport. If he was good friends with Rossi, the same people here currently acting like MM fanboys would actually despise him. As long as he's Rossi's enemy, they'll root for MM and pretend he is greater than he actually is.
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Yes bias is something that only exists in other people.

So how exactly did MM steal the 2015 title from Valentino ?. I have waited 9 years for an explanation of the mechanism.

And you are absolutely correct that I, along I am sure with others, am partly an MM fan because he is a rider who finally stood up to Rossi’s off track manipulations.

Great riders like Lorenzo and the rider of whom I am particularly a fan, Casey Stoner, had their careers made a misery for the sin of beating Rossi on track fairly and squarely, to say nothing of Nicky Hayden who rode a great season to deservedly win the 2006 title, for which he was widely derided if not with quite the same malice directed at other riders who dared to compete with Rossi.

And how pray tell as a fan of Mr 9/7 has MM at 8/6 been over rated ?.
 
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moto vudu said:
Right, MM knew Jorge was the guy Valentino needed to beat so MM did everything he could to prevent that from happening.

The MM fandom here is really just hatred for Rossi disguised as admiration for Marc. Marquez is easily one of the most dangerous riders to ever participate in the sport. If he was good friends with Rossi, the same people here currently acting like MM fanboys would actually despise him. As long as he's Rossi's enemy, they'll root for MM and pretend he is greater than he actually is.
Click to expand...

Not true. I like Marini and others who are friends with Rossi. The only two I don't like are Bezz and Pecco. Bezz is because he made some comments that were in poor taste. He is not willing to have any interaction with Marc not because of anything Marc did to him but rather what he thinks was done to his boss years ago. He would most certainly like your posts. My dislike for Pecco is completely because of his words and actions. He takes zero accountability for any mistakes he has made on or off the track. I literally can't stand him, but it has nothing to do with his association with Rossi. Its not even noticeable on race weekends. He actually talks to Marc and shows him respect until they are on the track. I am ok with the way he races just not the way he finds fault in others but not himself. Making mistakes in life is fine. Not owning up to them is not. Bezz is a right ..... He is basically Uccio that can ride a bike. Pecco just needs to grow up.
 
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moto vudu said:
The MM fandom here is really just hatred for Rossi disguised as admiration for Marc. Marquez is easily one of the most dangerous riders to ever participate in the sport. If he was good friends with Rossi, the same people here currently acting like MM fanboys would actually despise him. As long as he's Rossi's enemy, they'll root for MM and pretend he is greater than he actually is.
Click to expand...
That is some ass-backward horse ..... Cult of personality types who cling to this kind of thinking always go in for absurdist, paranoid conspiracy theories to explain why the one they worship isn’t really worth worshipping. This crap about having the championship “stolen” is as ridiculous at the crap about a certain election being stolen by sore losers who can’t accept basic reality. Seriously, Rossi fans are so cognitively impaired as to actually believe that admiration for Marquez is nothing more than hatred for a rider that nobody here cares to discuss anymore. Rossi is so irrelevant to the discussion of current day racing. He only barely gets mentioned in passing, except when a small handful of Rossifarians dredge his name up for the sake of mourning his passing from relevance, the way Shias beat themselves with whips and chains and cry over the way Ali doesn’t get the respect he deserves from Shiites, or the way red necks keep promoting the tragedy of abolition, and saying the South will rise again. It’s ....... laughable. Get over it.
 
MdubSTYLIE said:
Do you need a tissue .......?
Click to expand...
Yes his personal attacks are obviously entirely different from those of others, they are his. And he has shown no inclination to address any substantive arguments posted by others, merely nibbling at minutiae as is the wont of those of his ilk. And someone who basically posted very early in this thread that MM won’t ever win a 7th title, nyah, nyah nyah is hardly the epitome of maturity himself.

Even back in the days when you and I were at odds we were both prepared to engage in genuine debate, and came to a point of mutual respect, particularly for your knowledge of bikes and bike racing on my part which I am sure exceeds mine.

Given the history of gp bike racing over the last 25 odd years and almost universal hatred of MM and most of Rossi’s other opponents elsewhere on other bike racing forums and many other places over that period it is rather amusing that something of an alternative narrative on this tiny corner of the internet so irks Rossi partisans.

I will back track on an earlier post which I based on the post of another, Bagnaia probably doesn’t deserve to be grouped with Bezzecchi, not that the latter is devoid of riding talent either btw. I do think Bagnaia is prone to whinging about others despite behaving similarly himself, something of which MM whatever his faults can’t be accused.
 
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michaelm said:
Yes his personal attacks are obviously entirely different from those of others, they are his. And he has shown no inclination to address any substantive arguments posted by others, merely nibbling at minutiae as is the wont of those of his ilk. And someone who basically posted very early in this thread that MM id never going to win a 7th title,, nyah, nyah nyah is hardly the epitome of maturity himself. .

Even back in the days when you and I were at odds we were both prepared to engage in genuine debate, and came to a point of mutual respect, particularly for your knowledge of bikes and bike racing on my part which I am sure exceeds mine.

Given the history of gp bike racing over the last 20 years and almost universal hatred of MM and most of Rossi’s other opponents elsewhere on other bike racing forums and many other places it is rather amusing that something of an alternative narrative on this tiny corner of the internet so irks Rossi partisans.

I will back track on an earlier post which I based on the post of another, Bagnaia probably doesn’t deserve to be grouped with Bezzecchi, who is also not devoid of riding talent btw. I do think Bagnaia is prone to whinging about others despite behaving similarly himself, something of which MM whatever his faults can’t be accused.
Click to expand...

I think it is rare we don't see things the same way. The debate we had back in the day was based of cod psychology and opinions. I've always enjoyed and learned something from your replies. Still do.
 
michaelm said:
I am a fan of Lorenzo and particularly of Stoner, whom he never raced btw, ahead of MM.
Click to expand...

Pardon me! Time passes and my memory slips! Of course I now remember Stoner never raced with Marquez.

Several years ago I was in Spain (the year Rins won in the rain at Valencia) and somewhere there was an old giant advertising billboard with Stoner on the Honda. It may have been oil advertising, Repsol?

In any case it struck me, as Stoner had been out of racing already for a time.

It seems in Spain serious attention is paid to motorbike racing in general and respect flows to all the riders, not just the Spaniards. Look at all the great Spanish riders in the past and present. There must be something in the water.

As an American I can only wish that more attention was paid to MotoGP and motorcycle racing in general. Alas, I’ll have to be content that the AFT flat track show is coming to the cool short track in my hometown of Ventura in a couple of weeks. We are a long ways on from Nick Hayden.
 
Its funny that vudu mentions that MM fandom is just hatred for Rossi. A battle line was drawn by Rossi. He is the one who cut off communication and refused to shake hands twice with Marc. He drew a line in the sand a forced motogp fans to pick a side. The yellow fever are the ones who chose to villainize a rider because their messiah told them to. It is actually extremely sad that he did this. He lot of fans by doing this. He made motogp toxic. MM fandom and Rossi are not related. MM had a great career one of the best ever all after Rossi was basically irrelevant. Rossi's name only gets brought up when mentioned by people who won't let it go. When Marc fans are way past giving a .... about him. The fact of the matter is he was never even on the same level as Marc during Marcs career. He is nothing to MM fans but a thorn in our side.
 
MdubSTYLIE said:
Please don't turn this into another "RoSsI wAs ScReWeD" thread. Please take that flat earth ........ back to the Sepang thread. If we collected all the tears of Rossi fans we could solve the world’s water crisis.
Click to expand...

I have to hand it to Michaelm and all the others who accurately go back and try to logically refute all the valeban nonsense. It takes time that I personally don’t want to take to do that, so thank you to those who do!

Honestly, when the valebanese occasionally show up as they do under various names, I’ll give them a chance. After they show their colors I simply skip over their posts, never mind read them. I have plenty of more rewarding ways to waste time.
 
Bern1 said:
Pardon me! Time passes and my memory slips! Of course I now remember Stoner never raced with Marquez.

Several years ago I was in Spain (the year Rins won in the rain at Valencia) and somewhere there was an old giant advertising billboard with Stoner on the Honda. It may have been oil advertising, Repsol?

In any case it struck me, as Stoner had been out of racing already for a time.

It seems in Spain serious attention is paid to motorbike racing in general and respect flows to all the riders, not just the Spaniards. Look at all the great Spanish riders in the past and present. There must be something in the water.

As an American I can only wish that more attention was paid to MotoGP and motorcycle racing in general. Alas, I’ll have to be content that the AFT flat track show is coming to the cool short track in my hometown of Ventura in a couple of weeks. We are a long ways on from Nick Hayden.
Click to expand...
A sign of my age, but I don’t forget not just Nicky Hayden but also Rainey, Schwantz and particularly Eddie Lawson who stands comparison with any rider ever imo, and golden age 500 gp bike racing in general. I didn’t follow the sport soon enough to see Freddie Spencer at his reputedly amazing peak, just in his decline, but am of course aware of him, KRSR and Barry Sheene who migrated to Australia and became a prominent and very enjoyable motorsports commentator.

Interesting that we both were fans of Jorge Lorenzo, a very different style of rider than those I have mentioned, but still very much the genuine article and tough as they come while racing fairly.
 
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ApriliaRS250 said:
IIRC rossi lost the 2015 title by less than half a bike length when iannone snatched the win, costing rossi 5 very precious points

And when MM was absolutely unbeatable in his prime his only ..... in the armor was last lap battles which he more often than not lost to the likes of dovi and others
Click to expand...
Agree about both, Iannone cost him 4 points vs Lorenzo by passing him to finish 3rd at PI 2015, which would have been 9 points if that tanking ....... MM hadn’t beaten Lorenzo for the win by means of an astounding banzai last lap.

I had the same thought watching the race about the number of last lap stoushes MM has lost including to the likes of Dovi, he will usually get to the front if it is at all possible but not necessarily stay there. As I said despite his aggression in general I don’t remember, perhaps selectively, him pulling many counter moves like Bagnaia’s in this race and the other race this year.
 
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www.the-race.com

'Anyway, I don't like you' - The unseen Jerez MotoGP outburst

Johann Zarco has revealed he let loose on chief MotoGP steward Freddie Spencer in the aftermath of the Spanish Grand Prix, after being summoned to discuss his crash with Aleix Espargaro
www.the-race.com www.the-race.com

Zarco lashing out at Freddie Spencer after the race. Johan's timing is bad, and his reasoning is perhaps worse, but he has a point.

Spencer doesn't seem to care about the midpack during the race. In 2022, Fabio received a long-lap penalty for an optimistic overtaking maneuver on Espargaro. Aleix had excellent pace, and Fabio had nerfed the preordained victor in pursuit of Aprilia's second premier class triumph. Fabio and Aleix were also in direct competition for the championship lead at that point in the 2022 season. Since then, Nakagami went on a crime spree without penalties from race direction, and this Sunday featured several crimes against humanity, for which no penalties were assessed.

I'm not the sort of fan who demands absolute transparency and fairness because it seems like an impossible and somewhat juvenile request, but I can understand why some riders and fans are growing frustrated by the Spencer regime. If he wants to encourage hard racing, that's not necessarily bad, but the bikes are a lot heavier and faster than they were in his day.
 
You are fragile :) even your Marquez said that touch is normal, but you guy still whining, some 24h after race.

Your whining makes me memember Valencia 2023 where Martin hope ended with your torpedo Marquez :).

Marquez said after Jerez race:
""It was a tight fight, even like old times. This is good, it's racing. I tried to close the door, but he was inside and this is something that happens in the racing."

Link: https://www.motorsport.com/motogp/n...gp-duel-with-bagnaia-like-old-times/10604348/

I dont know why you Rossi haters want to look back every post at every 2024 race. I only reply one time here: You should know, in 10 years, people will only remember that Rossi 7 titles, much more races win than Marquez. That statistics doesn't lie.
Let me remind you if you might have forgotten.

Rossi: highest class
Title: 7
Win: 89
Pole: 55
Podium: 199

Marquez, highest class
Title: 6
Win: 59
Pole: 64
Podium: 101

Poor you.

michaelm said:
So you are saying Bagnaia let MM catch up so he could crash into him ?.

As I previously said, credit to Bagnaia for 2 great laps, the first and the 23rd, which won him the race.

You are talking a tenth of a second in terms of the late laps, and you may not have noticed that MM caught up 2 seconds or so prior to their contact. We will never know what might have happened had he not lost ground on the first lap but as he would more genuinely say than that other guy, and did say about the tyre marks on his leathers post race, that’s racing, and he partly got shuffled back because of a genius first lap from Bagnaia.

Most on here are veterans of debates with members of the Valeban, in my case going back to the days when Hayden then Stoner were the enemies, and you are no less banal than all the others, with your tactic of making large unsupported assertions while trying to pick minor holes in the arguments of your opponents but ignoring their substantive arguments hardly a new one, nor a method of winning a debate except in your own mind, inside which you are doubtless a legend.

I would say MM is in a similar situation to your boy in 2014, grateful to be back competing towards the front of the field, after nightmare years of non-competitiveness, although in Valentino’s case after being 2 seconds a lap slower than the guy who had just vacated the 2010 Ducati and won races on that horrible bike.

The really amusing thing is that while I am sure MM wouldn’t mind another title or two he iis unlikely imo to go to his grave obsessed with a title he didn’t win as would seem likely to be the case with Rossi and his acolytes on track and those such as you off track, given the ongoing bitterness and rancour constantly on display from him and you/they 9 seasons on from 2015.

I have news for you, while MM may never win a 7th/9th title there is rather more chance of him doing so than Valentino has of winning an 8th/10th title.

It would seem highly likely that irony is a concept foreign to the Valeban, but for me the ironies are dual, firstly that Valentino never needed an 8th title to match Agostini, everyone knew he was better already, and secondly that the theft of the 2015 title is a fiction significantly the result of a fever dream which apparently involved post race analysis by that icon of the sport Uccio. Lorenzo was the guy Valentino needed to beat in those late season races, as well as Pedrosa in several races and Iannone in one.

Your version of the Gibernau curse is hardly novel either, but a reminder to those of us who followed the sport way back then that we should have realised what Rossi was about way sooner.
Click to expand...
 
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mylexicon said:
www.the-race.com

'Anyway, I don't like you' - The unseen Jerez MotoGP outburst

Johann Zarco has revealed he let loose on chief MotoGP steward Freddie Spencer in the aftermath of the Spanish Grand Prix, after being summoned to discuss his crash with Aleix Espargaro
www.the-race.com www.the-race.com

Zarco lashing out at Freddie Spencer after the race. Johan's timing is bad, and his reasoning is perhaps worse, but he has a point.

Spencer doesn't seem to care about the midpack during the race. In 2022, Fabio received a long-lap penalty for an optimistic overtaking maneuver on Espargaro. Aleix had excellent pace, and Fabio had nerfed the preordained victor in pursuit of Aprilia's second premier class triumph. Fabio and Aleix were also in direct competition for the championship lead at that point in the 2022 season. Since then, Nakagami went on a crime spree without penalties from race direction, and this Sunday featured several crimes against humanity, for which no penalties were assessed.

I'm not the sort of fan who demands absolute transparency and fairness because it seems like an impossible and somewhat juvenile request, but I can understand why some riders and fans are growing frustrated by the Spencer regime. If he wants to encourage hard racing, that's not necessarily bad, but the bikes are a lot heavier and faster than they were in his day.
Click to expand...
And the riders are on the whole, much smaller than in Spencer’s heyday. That said, the safety equipment is vastly superior to what was available in the ‘70s. I still have an old pair of yellow Alpinestars boots from my club racing days, and compared to what I wear just for back-road riding, they’re like old cardboard. I can hardly believe that I thought they were the ultimate in foot protection back then. And Devil’s advocating here, the tracks are much safer today compared the short run-offs and hay bales of Spencer’s time, all of which, undoubtedly contribute to a false sense of security for riders who fall off bikes at over 100 MPH several times a weekend and just get up and go out again with bruised ribs or a bit of friction burn.
 
dogfight said:
You are fragile :) even your Marquez said that touch is normal, but you guy still whining, some 24h after race.

Your whining makes me memember Valencia 2023 where Martin hope ended with your torpedo Marquez :).

Marquez said after Jerez race:
""It was a tight fight, even like old times. This is good, it's racing. I tried to close the door, but he was inside and this is something that happens in the racing."

Link: https://www.motorsport.com/motogp/n...gp-duel-with-bagnaia-like-old-times/10604348/

I dont know why you Rossi haters want to look back every post at every 2024 race. I only reply one time here: You should know, in 10 years, people will only remember that Rossi 7 titles, much more races win than Marquez. That statistics doesn't lie.
Let me remind you if you might have forgotten.

Rossi: highest class
Title: 7
Win: 89
Pole: 55
Podium: 199

Marquez, highest class
Title: 6
Win: 59
Pole: 64
Podium: 101

Poor you.
Click to expand...
Who is whining? Our problem isn't with Pecco's hard riding. Its with his double standard of racing hard but not accepting being raced hard. I give tons of credit to pecco for how he rode after being passed. He stepped up and finished the job. I know its not easy to keep up or understand the conversation when you have a single agenda of villainizing Marc. Gaslighting is all Rossi and his Valeban have but it doesn't work here.
 

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