2024 Gran Premio Estrella Galicia 0,0 de España - Circuit Jerez

warthog1 · Apr 28, 2024

MdubSTYLIE said:
The bike/rider 50/50 ratio isn't the same anymore because of aero and ride height devices. Nothing what so ever makes me think the gp23 is better or equal to the 24. Every rider who has rode both states that. Every rider that has ridden both is riding better on the 24. You could argue Pecco is not but thats of his own doing. Martin better. Enea better. There is zero evidence that the gp23 is as good. Every rider who rode the 22 is doing worse on the 23. Its not a good bike compared to the 22 or the 24. I don't know how you could argue showing a single example otherwise. You can say it but you can't back it up. I haven't seen or heard anything about the chatter issue since the first round. However the braking issue has been the number one problem of the 23 last year and this year. Would Marc have won on the 24? probably. Would Pecco have lost on the 23? Probably. Hell if Pecco didn't bumper bike his way through I doubt he would have found a way around Marc today.

We here credit Marc on his riding because no one in the history of the sport has matched what he can do. In his down years the past 3 even, no one on that garbage pail bike has matched him. Not even close. I don't believe he has fallen from being great yet. I'll believe it when he isn't over preforming compared to every rider on equal machinery. So far that hasn't happened. I don't rate Pecco in the top 3 riders in gp. I rate him maybe 5th. He has benefitted by having the best bike on the grid. In a time where the bike means more than the rider due to, as mentioned above, aero and ride height. A bike that suits him while some of the other great riders are on .... cans.

Yep. That insane ability to save the front end of a motorcycle has not been displayed by anyone with the consistency Marc has managed.

I also love the way he fought his battles on the track, not in the press conference or through the use of his fans as summed up here.

The excessive fanatacism which spits from the viperous tongues of the Valeban is what really gets on my goat. Passionate fans I love. The hatred, animosity, detestation and relentless loathing I don’t. The lack of respect for other riders has increased dramatically in the last decade. I’ve watched it change from what used to be passionate fans, respectful of the riders they do not support, to total and complete hatred of other riders and there is one person who started it and one person who could nip it in the bud with just one press release. That person is Valentino himself. Instead, he chooses to ignore it, even perpetuate and subtly encourage it.

The Bigotry of MotoGP - The Vile Valeban

Valeban can see no rationale. Are unable to accept any facts. Refuse to acknowledge when Rossi makes a mistake, be it on track or in the media. Accept his petulance when he loses and applaud his derision of other riders.

www.mcnews.com.au

PRS717 · Apr 28, 2024

mylexicon said:
I think that's actually the topic of the "drama". Supposedly, Pedrosa said Lorenzo is fat or something along those lines. That's celebrity pre-fight hype for you

Keshav said:
Looks like Jorge’s new nickname will be Gordito.

MichaelBolton said:
No more hammer, just butter

MdubSTYLIE said:
Ham and butter

After watching the Moto2 race, I think the boxing match should be between Lorenzo and John Hopkins. They seem to be more or less in the same weight class.

DavidSim · Apr 28, 2024

MichaelBolton said:
The championship tightens up, and like they always say, the season starts in Jerez.

Based on what I have seen so far I am going to go out on a limb and say the championship is going to be won by one of the following (assuming they stay healthy):

1. Martin
2. Bagnaia
3. M. Marquez

If Marquez had not fallen off twice he'd be right up there in points !

michaelm · Apr 28, 2024

JPSLotus said:
I agree entirely on those 2 laps Pecco rode. Nothing but kudos to him for putting in those lap times...but they were lap times I expected from him sooner. I know he gets on very well at Jerez, but it should not have taken till this round to show off what he can do on the GP24.

MM I think had enough of not finishing either the race or in the points, so I was glad he decided after the contact to just maintain distance and to finish the race. Pecco got the MM experience today, and I'm reminded of something from Formula 1 about 30 years ago. When David Coulthard won his first grands prix in the Williams-Renault at the 1995 Portuguese Grand Prix, he had Michael Schumacher behind him in the Benetton-Renault. He remarked afterwards that the pace that Schumacher was pushing him at was so great, he was certain he was going to crash rather than finish the race. Bagnaia withstood MM which not many do, but he's going to find a time and place when it doesn't happen. Marc was pushing him as hard as I've seen anyone push Pecco these last few years. I do not think though that the outcome would have been the same if both were on GP24's though.

The association with Rossi is disappointing, but speaks to his ill-advised judgment in general whether on the race track or in the every day world. Nick Harris was always prone to hyperbole which I could never figure out if it was an effort to mimic the late Murray Walker or if he actually believes what he says. Pecco like many is fast on his day, but has the advantage of being on the best motorcycle on the grid.

I loved Murray Walker, even if he did get over excited during racing commentary which I found endearing. If you ever heard him interviewed away from a race he was a very smart bloke, a successful professional (a lawyer I believe) who came to race commentary fairly late in life because he loved racing. He didn’t take himself at all seriously and had a laugh about his Murrayisms.

I don’t think Nick Harris is malicious at all, but would be surprised if an interview away from racing revealed signs of high intelligence or any acquaintance with the concept of irony.

surendhar · Apr 28, 2024

p4p1 said:
I did find it funny in during the podium celebrations when MM was doing his terrible dancing, Pecco seemed to be enjoying himself, laughing and joking, either at or with MM or something else going on while Bezz looked like someone just shat in his cereal. Pecco seeming to not get involved in the Rossi/MM spat clearly looks to be better for his own mental health.

Yeah, I really can't understand the hatered towards Pecco (in relation to Marc). Unlike Bez (drinking the cool aid), Pecco is usually mature and doesnt get involved in this unnecessary hatred thing. He even congratulated and chatted with Marc in Parc ferme unlike the other ........ (who ocan only wish Marc when his boss is not around). I think Pecco generally gets on well with both Casey & Marc (VRs enemies)

Keshav · Apr 28, 2024

warthog1 said:
Had a bit more of a think about it today and I'm not sure. Enea and Pecco had some big battles in 22 before Enea was put on the factory bike.
Pecco and MM still seem civil with each other off the bike. Dunno.
I'd love to see MM with the factory support but aint too hopeful

The difference would be that MM and Pecco are both championship winners, Enea is not. More ego involved. The enmity is there. It's just that Marc really hides it well. Pecco is not into ostentatious displays of anger, but sure does sulk a lot. Putting them together in the same garage would I think, push Pecco over the edge. Marc I think, would weaponize that dynamic.

p4p1 · Apr 28, 2024

I think the knock on Pecco is that he is a massive hypocrite. Take the weekend for example, he complains about Binders pass, that after doing the same thing to Marquez he had to spend an hour with RD after the race defending himself. He goes on to say that what Binder did was worse than what Marquez did to Mir. But then Pecco himself will stuff it up the inside and cause contact like Brad to him against Marquez twice and a few others in recent memory.
FWIW if Marquez's 'pass' on Mir deserved a drop position penalty, which it did, then so did Pecco's cut back on Marquez.

michaelm · Apr 28, 2024

surendhar said:
Yeah, I really can't understand the hatered towards Pecco (in relation to Marc). Unlike Bez (drinking the cool aid), Pecco is usually mature and doesnt get involved in this unnecessary hatred thing. He even congratulated and chatted with Marc in Parc ferme unlike the other ........ (who ocan only wish Marc when his boss is not around). I think Pecco generally gets on well with both Casey & Marc (VRs enemies)

Perhaps I exaggerated due to a post made by someone else in the case of Bagania.

The thing is it is all wholly ridiculous particularly 9 seasons later and based on the fiction that the 2015 title was stolen from Valentino. Despite all the argybargy the reason Rossi didn’t win the 2015 title despite being admirably competitive at his then age and managing to lead the standings for most of the season was that Lorenzo was too fast for him in the end of season races. As MM said at the time Jorge was the guy Valentino needed to beat, not him.

dogfight · Apr 28, 2024

Data is availble for you:

https://resources.motogp.com/files/results/2024/SPA/MotoGP/RAC/AverageSpeed.pdf

Fact is fact.

Hollywood said:
It is obvious when the GP24 is in its top setting it is 10mph faster then anything else on the track. There were a couple instances where Bagnaia would hit that switch and the bike would have an instant boost of power, in particular down the back stretch heading towards turn 6.

warthog1 · Apr 28, 2024

Keshav said:
The difference would be that MM and Pecco are both championship winners, Enea is not. More ego involved. The enmity is there. It's just that Marc really hides it well. Pecco is not into ostentatious displays of anger, but sure does sulk a lot. Putting them together in the same garage would I think, push Pecco over the edge. Marc I think, would weaponize that dynamic.

Not sure. Marc wants to get past anyone and everyone on the track in front of him.
With respect to Pecco, he wants to demonstrate competetive and riding ability on an inferior machine. To make the case for a factory machine next year. (I am sure the data is indicating that already too).
Pecco understandably doesn't want a rival on an older, non-factory version of his bike beating him.

They will continue to race each other hard I expect but hopefully they don't take each other out. After yesterdays race I can see them doing so again

If you mean Marc would take energy and motivation from intra-team rivalry with Pecco I think you are right. He would race hard but fair though imo.

michaelm · Apr 28, 2024

warthog1 said:
Not sure. Marc wants to get past anyone and everyone on the track in front of him.
With respect to Pecco, he wants to demonstrate competetive and riding ability on an inferior machine. To make the case for a factory machine next year. (I am sure the data is indicating that already too).
Pecco understandably doesn't want a rival on an older, non-factory version of his bike beating him.

They will continue to race each other hard I expect but hopefully they don't take each other out. After yesterdays race I can see them doing so again

If you mean Marc would take energy and motivation from intra-team rivalry with Pecco I think you are right. He would race hard but fair though imo.

I think he meant the attitude to MM from those in the Rossi camp in general, which certainly has not dismayed MM previously, rather to the contrary. Bezzecchi is definitely one who along with his employers is unkeen on MM, which I am sure worries MM not at all. It may be unfair to group Bagnaia, who may well be concerned with maintaining his top dog status at Yamaha more than anything else, with the aforementioned curmudgeons..

Bern1 · Apr 28, 2024

Well that was a race. Phenomenal. Having just watched it this evening I also just read through all the comments.

Interesting, as always. I thought Martin had taken a big step in conservation but then he tossed it. However, let’s not forget that this has happened to…..literally everybody racing. We’ll see how it stacks up at the end of the year.

On Pecco having the best bike: MM had the best and fastest bike for a number of years. Heroics by Lorenzo and Stoner sometimes overcame that. I was impressed with Pecco’s race. At the end I was sure he had run out of tire and that MM would prevail. It’s ironic hearing Pecco referred to as a dirty rider. MM has dive bombed many a rider from the inside.

Regardless, great racing. Looks like a lot more to come.

Barbedwirebikerr · Apr 28, 2024

I'm just glad to be watching Marc race without the fear of feeling I'm about to see something catastrophic.

michaelm · Apr 28, 2024

Bern1 said:
Well that was a race. Phenomenal. Having just watched it this evening I also just read through all the comments.

Interesting, as always. I thought Martin had taken a big step in conservation but then he tossed it. However, let’s not forget that this has happened to…..literally everybody racing. We’ll see how it stacks up at the end of the year.

On Pecco having the best bike: MM had the best and fastest bike for a number of years. Heroics by Lorenzo and Stoner sometimes overcame that. I was impressed with Pecco’s race. At the end I was sure he had run out of tire and that MM would prevail. It’s ironic hearing Pecco referred to as a dirty rider. MM has dive bombed many a rider from the inside.

Regardless, great racing. Looks like a lot more to come.

Sure MM had the best bike in 2014 and probably 2913, but not so certainly subsequent to 2014, and definitely not after the control ECU and also won a title when riding injured with a bad shoulder for an entire season. The start of his premier class career was certainly a time when basically only 4 riders could win though. I am a fan of Lorenzo and particularly of Stoner, whom he never raced btw, ahead of MM.

MM was also outright dangerous initially in his career, ,and at the very least could be described as aggressive subsequently, but isn’t a hypocrite and doesn’t complain about other riders as he didn’t despite the tire marks on his leathers after the race. In his later title years with Honda I consider him to have ridden with greater care for the safety of others, but some of his first lap moves when the Honda had turned into a total pig are hard to defend even if he thought first lap aggression was his only chance.

Bagnaia this year seems to have decided he prefers both of them to crash out of a race than to be passed by MM, and I am not sure MM has taken matters quite that far overly

moto vudu · Apr 28, 2024

michaelm said:
Perhaps I exaggerated due to a post made by someone else in the case of Bagania.

The thing is it is all wholly ridiculous particularly 9 seasons later and based on the fiction that the 2015 title was stolen from Valentino. Despite all the argybargy the reason Rossi didn’t win the 2015 title despite being admirably competitive at his then age and managing to lead the standings for most of the season was that Lorenzo was too fast for him in the end of season races. As MM said at the time Jorge was the guy Valentino needed to beat, not him.

Right, MM knew Jorge was the guy Valentino needed to beat so MM did everything he could to prevent that from happening.

The MM fandom here is really just hatred for Rossi disguised as admiration for Marc. Marquez is easily one of the most dangerous riders to ever participate in the sport. If he was good friends with Rossi, the same people here currently acting like MM fanboys would actually despise him. As long as he's Rossi's enemy, they'll root for MM and pretend he is greater than he actually is.

ApriliaRS250 · Apr 29, 2024

IIRC rossi lost the 2015 title by less than half a bike length when iannone snatched the win, costing rossi 5 very precious points

And when MM was absolutely unbeatable in his prime his only ..... in the armor was last lap battles which he more often than not lost to the likes of dovi and others

dogfight · Apr 29, 2024

I like the way you and some others like @Keshav jump on, doing personal attack first before writing something. It looks like you used to lose your head right before everything else.

Your MM is the Duc 23 fastest rider last 3 races, it does not necesserily mean he is faster than Duc 24 riders if they are on the same term. That's why Domenicali asked not to compare MM and duc24 riders, they know that comparing Duc 23 riders and Duc 24 riders is non-sense at the moment. People will agree with me that the Ducati CEO is smarter than you.

And, the fact after Jerez is: I am still correct. You may still be happy with Marquez 2nd, I don't care. Head 2 head score now 2-0, first in 2022, and Jerez the 2nd.

MdubSTYLIE said:
This entire post is dog piss. As usual Marc lives rent free in the head of his haters who make irrational statements based on their dreams.

Are we sure that the gp24 is better than the 23? 100% yes. Who before today other than Marc was anywhere near the podium on the gp23? All 3 riders who rode the gp23 that are now on the 24 stated from the get go the bike is better. Its visually better. The results are better. The riders who went from the 22 to 23 are worse. Everything points toward the 24 being better. Hell even the 22 is better. Keep barking off ........ doggy.

I guess you missed Marc's save of old this weekend during fp3. Its all over the net. Check it out.

MdubSTYLIE said:
This entire post is dog piss. As usual Marc lives rent free in the head of his haters who make irrational statements based on their dreams.

Are we sure that the gp24 is better than the 23? 100% yes. Who before today other than Marc was anywhere near the podium on the gp23? All 3 riders who rode the gp23 that are now on the 24 stated from the get go the bike is better. Its visually better. The results are better. The riders who went from the 22 to 23 are worse. Everything points toward the 24 being better. Hell even the 22 is better. Keep barking off ........ doggy.

I guess you missed Marc's save of old this weekend during fp3. Its all over the net. Check it out.

dogfight · Apr 29, 2024

Learn to analyse free data before jumping to conclusion: https://resources.motogp.com/files/results/2024/SPA/MotoGP/RAC/Analysis.pdf

What MM does after contact:
Lap 22: 1:38:3xx
Lap 23: 1:37:6xx. (3rd personal best in the race)
Lap 24: 1:37:8xx.
Lap 25: 1:37:637 (personal best).

What Pecco does after contact:
Lap 22: 1:38:2xx
Lap 23: 1:37:449 (race record)
Lap 24: 1:37:7xx.
Lap 25: 1:37:7xx.

Marquez post the personal best in the last lap, and 3rd personal best in the 3rd last lap. And you think it is a "maintaining distance" decision

.

The true story: Marquez has tried everything but Bagnaia had more in the Bag.

JPSLotus said:
I agree entirely on those 2 laps Pecco rode. Nothing but kudos to him for putting in those lap times...but they were lap times I expected from him sooner. I know he gets on very well at Jerez, but it should not have taken till this round to show off what he can do on the GP24.

MM I think had enough of not finishing either the race or in the points, so I was glad he decided after the contact to just maintain distance and to finish the race. Pecco got the MM experience today, and I'm reminded of something from Formula 1 about 30 years ago. When David Coulthard won his first grands prix in the Williams-Renault at the 1995 Portuguese Grand Prix, he had Michael Schumacher behind him in the Benetton-Renault. He remarked afterwards that the pace that Schumacher was pushing him at was so great, he was certain he was going to crash rather than finish the race. Bagnaia withstood MM which not many do, but he's going to find a time and place when it doesn't happen. Marc was pushing him as hard as I've seen anyone push Pecco these last few years. I do not think though that the outcome would have been the same if both were on GP24's though.

The association with Rossi is disappointing, but speaks to his ill-advised judgment in general whether on the race track or in the every day world. Nick Harris was always prone to hyperbole which I could never figure out if it was an effort to mimic the late Murray Walker or if he actually believes what he says. Pecco like many is fast on his day, but has the advantage of being on the best motorcycle on the grid.

dogfight · Apr 29, 2024

michaelm, my statement is: Marquez will not win race again.

We can freely discuss Duc 23 and Duc 24 performances: you can say this, I can say that, so does people. You can be happy with the logic: "Duc 23 is inferior (you consider this is fact) and that's why MM is so good.". I see it good but not enough to win races. This year we see the combination MM + Duc 23, next year I dont know. Until post Jerez, the actual combination still 2nd max.

My thought on Duc 23 and Duc 24: at the start of the season, it is 50,50. My logic behind is improving the perfect bike is so hard.

michaelm said:
You and qui22a need to get your story straight, is the GP24 so much better than the GP23 that MM can’t ever win another race, or did Bagnaia just beat MM by superior riding on equal equipment ?.

As has been said, mostly wishful thinking in this post, and you reveal yourself rather than proving anything as per my previous post in reply to you.

MM looks to me like your boy claimed to be in 2014, happy to be competitive again. I am sure he would like another title, but unlike Rossi I strongly doubt he is going to go to his grave obsessing about a title being stolen from him, along with the Valeban such as you off track and even his acolytes in the current field it would appear. So whatever else MM his fans permanently have that as a cause of satisfaction/schadenfreude Should we wish to descend to tour level.

And once again, all of this angst is based on a fantasy/fever dream. Rossi never needed to win the 8th title to prove himself equal to or better than Agostini, everyone already knew he was better. And the ugly truth for you guys is that the basis of the obsession with the title that was stolen is that in the case of the PI 2015 race Ucchio’s race analysis is arrant nonsense, and MM was only marginally involved in Rossi not winning the 2015 title, the guy he needed to beat in the end of season races was Jorge Lorenzo as MM said, and Jorge won because he couldn’t do so, or beat Dani Pedrosa in a number of races and Iannone in one race.

warthog1 · Apr 29, 2024

Perhaps learn to look at the big picture before making assertions as to what others are looking at.
Pecco has multiple seasons onboard the Ducati and is on the factory team.
Pecco has won the last 2 years here, it is a strong track for him. Marquez just had his 4th race weekend on the Ducati after several seasons busted up after over riding the Honda.
The general opinion of those riding the 24 Ducati is it is a significant improvement over the end of season 23. Is Marquez even riding a bike equivalent of the end of season 23?
Perhaps Ducatis tech director knows a thing or two?

MotoGP, Barana: “The difference between the new and old Ducati will be bigger than in 2023”

MotoGP: The Technical Director of Ducati Corse illustrates what will differentiate the Desmosedici GP24 from the GP23 entrusted to Marquez: “We have worked on all fronts. The 2024 bike will have a more high-performance engine and a new aerodynamic package"

m.gpone.com

Search

Search

2024 Gran Premio Estrella Galicia 0,0 de España - Circuit Jerez

warthog1

The Bigotry of MotoGP - The Vile Valeban

PRS717

DavidSim

michaelm

surendhar

Keshav

p4p1

michaelm

dogfight

warthog1

michaelm

Bern1

Barbedwirebikerr

michaelm

moto vudu

ApriliaRS250

dogfight

dogfight

dogfight

warthog1

MotoGP, Barana: “The difference between the new and old Ducati will be bigger than in 2023”

Similar threads

Recent Discussions