2024 Gran Premio Estrella Galicia 0,0 de España - Circuit Jerez

gui22a said:

This is a bit of non-sense. Things don't work this way. It's not that a year old bike is crap and the new one is far superior. Sometimes it's just the opposite. In some places, some tracks, some sectors, it could be that even the GP22 would be faster than both the new bikes. Also, don't forget the GP23 is well developed and has lots of setup data for Jerez, whereas this track is totally new for the GP24. The 24 bike may suit some riders, others not, as well as the 23. The difference between both is pretty small.

What I'm realizing is that Marc lovers are just jumping on this subject to confort themselves.

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Not really nonsense.

He has none of the updates that the GP23 got for the entire season. He literally started at square 1 with the bike's development. Gresini formally asked that updates be made available for the GP23. Ducati said they would take it under consideration. He also mentioned he used his COTA settings for Jerez earlier in the weekend.

GP24 also made a huge step forward from the GP23 compared to the GP22 to the GP23. Especially in regards to the engine itself.

Do you dispute Pecco nearly crashed out multiple times trying to win today's race?

JPSLotus said:

Not even surprised. I think the only ones who are really taking any of this into account are Ducati.

MM kept up with a GP24 with all updates that had the wheels ridden off it, while being on a Qatar 2023 spec bike.

I don't know, if I were Pecco I'd be sort of embarrassed that I had to nearly crash multiple times just to stay in front.

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I am encouraged by this race as was MM obviously.

Credit to Bagnaia for the two fantastic laps that won him the race, but MM even elected to take second when Bagnaia would have taken them both down on this track which is close to Bagnaia’s best while being the track where MM had his career threatening injury. MM shrugged off the tyre marks on his leathers, but both he and his crew chief said the race didn’t go according to plan, partly due to Bagnaia’s dynamite first lap of course, but MM said he was stiff from the fall on Saturday and loosened up during the race. Getting away in front is probably his best chance to win as he has been trying to do, he looks to be at a disadvantage in a dogfight on a GP23.

Bagnaia is obviously fast and has now won 20 races and two titles, but one of the greatest of all time together with MM as Nick Harris called it is perhaps a little premature, particularly since Ducati were basically handed a bike advantage.

I thought I was being unfair in disliking him partly because of his Valentino Rossi association, but the post race scenes with Valentino himself on hand have assuaged any guilty feelings I might have had.

JPSLotus said:

Not really nonsense.

He has none of the updates that the GP23 got for the entire season. He literally started at square 1 with the bike's development. Gresini formally asked that updates be made available for the GP23. Ducati said they would take it under consideration. He also mentioned he used his COTA settings for Jerez earlier in the weekend.

GP24 also made a huge step forward from the GP23 compared to the GP22 to the GP23. Especially in regards to the engine itself.

Do you dispute Pecco nearly crashed out multiple times trying to win today's race?

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The GP22 was better than the early season GP23 imo, and Marco Bezzecchi’s as well I gather. And if that bike was so good why did they feel any need to refine and develop it over the season, the benefits of which have not been given to this year’s GP 23 riders.

And JPS and I are hardly isolated frustrated MM fans crying in our beers about MM’s bike, Gigi himself has flat out said MM has a bike disadvantage. The GP24 riders have been saying the new bike is better as well, which I guess they more or less have to say contractually, but was not what they were saying about the GP23 in comparison with the GP22 early last season.

Everyone and their mother got on with the gp22. The gp23 even by the end of the year some riders struggled with. You can see it this year. This was the first race Bez and A. Marc looked good on it. I imagine they will be up and down depending on the circuit. The gp24 from the first test was better than the 23.

JPSLotus said:

GP24 also made a huge step forward from the GP23 compared to the GP22 to the GP23. Especially in regards to the engine itself.

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To say "huge" is a lot exagerated. Specially in Jerez. The difference from both bikes are most likeley only engine wise, like peak power and delivery. But it's something limited in Jerez (as Dalligna has just said to GpOne) that is a fast flowing, twistted track.

And one can't ignore the GP23 is a ready to go bike, like I said, very well settled and set up, so normally in the first part of a season, the last year bikes always do great.

gui22a said:

To say "huge" is a lot exagerated. Specially in Jerez. The difference from both bikes are most likeley only engine wise, like peak power and delivery. But it's something limited in Jerez (as Dalligna has just said to GpOne) that is a fast flowing, twistted track.

And one can't ignore the GP23 is a ready to go bike, like I said, very well settled and set up, so normally in the first part of a season, the last year bikes always do great.

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would you say Enea has had huge advancements on the gp24? Also riders who rode the gp22 and huge losses this year? I would

gui22a said:

To say "huge" is a lot exagerated. Specially in Jerez. The difference from both bikes are most likeley only engine wise, like peak power and delivery. But it's something limited in Jerez (as Dalligna has just said to GpOne) that is a fast flowing, twistted track.

And one can't ignore the GP23 is a ready to go bike, like I said, very well settled and set up, so normally in the first part of a season, the last year bikes always do great.

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Which is doubtless why they have all been slower than the GP24s in the first 3 races except in MM’s hands.

And MM doesn’t have any set up for himself and his own riding style, and if anything I suspect his brother is benefiting from his set up data, not that I have ever been convinced sorting bikes is MM’s forte, he has always like the line in the old movie just ridden them imo.

In any case take up your argument with Marco Bezzecchi, the winner of 3 races on a GP22, who was finding the GP23 difficult, or with Gigi who has flat out said MM has a bike disadvantage. And btw how long are you going to ignore that the current GP23 riders don’t have the very well settled and set-up version of the GP23 if it is the case that the bike did finish the season that way ?, but rather the Qatar 20023 version.

Well, Martin is the best championship leader from a spectator's standpoint. He never fails to keep it interesting.

Overall, Jerez was entertaining, with plenty of intrigue and excitement. Many predictions and assertions were blown away on Sunday. Aprilia are the same inconsistent performers, and Mav is still prone to lackadaisical starts. I suggested that Martin would keep it together for a few more rounds, but Jorge had other plans. Binder is not fading away already. Dani will not outscore the entire HRC organization, though he may still outscore 1-2 Honda riders. Marini is still pitching a shutout through 4 innings. Nakagami is averaging 1 point per weekend. It will be close depending on Dani's other wildcard appearances. Acosta cannot walk on water. Bezzechi might still have something in the tank.

Perhaps the biggest question to come out of this weekend: Is a rider responsible for hitting another rider on the inside, when the offending rider is below the fairing?

This question is much older than this season, and it played an important role at Aragon in 2022 when Fabio and Marc collided, but it took center stage this weekend. Many riders were launching aggressive overtakes on the racing line and barging their opponents into oblivion, when the opponent squared the corner to cut back to the apex. Overtakes are difficult to achieve in this era. Is the overtaking rider responsible for things he can't see? or chooses not to see by ducking under the fairing?

mylexicon said:

Well, Martin is the best championship leader from a spectator's standpoint. He never fails to keep it interesting.

Overall, Jerez was entertaining, with plenty of intrigue and excitement. Many predictions and assertions were blown away on Sunday. Aprilia are the same inconsistent performers, and Mav is still prone to lackadaisical starts. I suggested that Martin would keep it together for a few more rounds, but Jorge had other plans. Binder is not fading away already. Dani will not outscore the entire HRC organization, though he may still outscore 1-2 Honda riders. Marini is still pitching a shutout through 4 innings. Nakagami is averaging 1 point per weekend. It will be close depending on Dani's other wildcard appearances. Acosta cannot walk on water. Bezzechi might still have something in the tank.

Perhaps the biggest question to come out of this weekend: Is a rider responsible for hitting another rider on the inside, when the offending rider is below the fairing?

This question is much older than this season, and it played an important role at Aragon in 2022 when Fabio and Marc collided, but it took center stage this weekend. Many riders were launching aggressive overtakes on the racing line and barging their opponents into oblivion, when the opponent squared the corner to cut back to the apex. Overtakes are difficult to achieve in this era. Is the overtaking rider responsible for things he can't see? or chooses not to see by ducking under the fairing?

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If it happens to Pecco yes. If Pecco does it no. One of the most commendable things about Marc is when he is raced hard he doesn't complain. He takes it and congratulates the winner. Had the move today been the other way around Pecco would be crying to the media. Hell he even does that when he is at fault.

Thanks for remembering me. .

Congratulation to Bagnaia once again won duel against Marquez. I am very happy.

You MM band wagon seem very fragile. I never said your Marquez is finished, I DID say that he will never win again, because it requires a bad/good days when all big competitors (Martin, Bagnaia, Vinales, Acosta) all not performing, and your Marquez already pass his peaks some years ago. One clear indicator is in the last 2 years, he could not pull out any miracle front wheel losing save. Just crash, and crash. From his point of view, he believes that big modern aero makes bike saving harder or even impossible, but in my view, his reflex has become slower than the required threshold to save the bike.

My second statement is he will have NOWHERE to go next year: Nowhere here means factory teams. You guys hit back by saying Ducati is interested in MM, KTM is interested in MM. That's true, But there is a big difference between what teams talk and waht teams do. You all know the fact that in a team they normally need number 1 rider, to focus to the championship, and to focus to the bike development. In some special cases we see team equality, but it is quite rare. Now, Duc has Bagnaia, definitely number 1 at the moment. KTM has Acosta the next super star, Vinales @Aprilia. Back to Honda? Absolutely NO. Go to Yamaha? Definitely NO, Quatararo is there, and Yamaha is ill. His choice is so limited.

Now move to Duc 23 vs 24 comparison, you MM band wagon feels/be confident that Duc 24 is much more superior to Duc 23. Any proof? Improving an all-rounds bike like the Duc 23 is very hard. The bike is so good so it dominated the fields in 2023. Engine? At the start of the season, some articles were talking about Duc 24 engine improvement. How much do you know about the power improvement and power delivery improvement? I doubt you will ever know it. Even with big engine improvement, it does not mean it is applicable at any track. This race for example, Jerez is not a stop and go track, so engine improvement is less significant here.

As you guys are confident that the Duc 24 is much superior to Duc 23, so watching MM fighting at the front makes you feel MM still so good. Sure he is still good but not enough to win races. In reality, Ducati is smarter than you! Ducati CEO Domenicali demands MM is not compared to Duc 24 riders. He is now the fastest Duc 23 rider, but there isn't any baseline to compare him with Duc 24 riders. Link: Ducati CEO demands Marc Marquez is not compared to GP24 riders

For me the Duc 24 has more potential, but it needs time to fix the new issues rising from modifications applied to the new bike. So as time goes on, Duc 24 will be superior to Duc 23. At the start of the season, it is 50/50.

michaelm said:

A/sa y x

He may have a problem with reciprocal favours from MM, particularly if he is in contention and as I expect MM isn’t, this season at least, later in the season.

Where is Dogfight ?. MM doesn’t look to have lost all that much particularly given he was riding a GP23.

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dogfight said:

Thanks for remembering me. .

Congratulation to Bagnaia once again won duel against Marquez. I am very happy.

You MM band wagon seem very fragile. I never said your Marquez is finished, I DID say that he will never win again, because it requires a bad/good days when all big competitors (Martin, Bagnaia, Vinales, Acosta) all not performing, and your Marquez already pass his peaks some years ago. One clear indicator is in the last 2 years, he could not pull out any miracle front wheel losing save. Just crash, and crash. From his point of view, he believes that big modern aero makes bike saving harder or even impossible, but in my view, his reflex has become slower than the required threshold to save the bike.

My second statement is he will have NOWHERE to go next year: Nowhere here means factory teams. You guys hit back by saying Ducati is interested in MM, KTM is interested in MM. That's true, But there is a big difference between what teams talk and waht teams do. You all know the fact that in a team they normally need number 1 rider, to focus to the championship, and to focus to the bike development. In some special cases we see team equality, but it is quite rare. Now, Duc has Bagnaia, definitely number 1 at the moment. KTM has Acosta the next super star, Vinales @Aprilia. Back to Honda? Absolutely NO. Go to Yamaha? Definitely NO, Quatararo is there, and Yamaha is ill. His choice is so limited.

Now move to Duc 23 vs 24 comparison, you MM band wagon feels/be confident that Duc 24 is much more superior to Duc 23. Any proof? Improving an all-rounds bike like the Duc 23 is very hard. The bike is so good so it dominated the fields in 2023. Engine? At the start of the season, some articles were talking about Duc 24 engine improvement. How much do you know about the power improvement and power delivery improvement? I doubt you will ever know it. Even with big engine improvement, it does not mean it is applicable at any track. This race for example, Jerez is not a stop and go track, so engine improvement is less significant here.

As you guys are confident that the Duc 24 is much superior to Duc 23, so watching MM fighting at the front makes you feel MM still so good. Sure he is still good but not enough to win races. In reality, Ducati is smarter than you! Ducati CEO Domenicali demands MM is not compared to Duc 24 riders. He is now the fastest Duc 23 rider, but there isn't any baseline to compare him with Duc 24 riders. Link: Ducati CEO demands Marc Marquez is not compared to GP24 riders

For me the Duc 24 has more potential, but it needs time to fix the new issue rising from modifications applied to the new bike. So as time goes on, Duc 24 will be superior to Duc 23. At the start of the season, it is 50/50.

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This entire post is dog piss. As usual Marc lives rent free in the head of his haters who make irrational statements based on their dreams.

Are we sure that the gp24 is better than the 23? 100% yes. Who before today other than Marc was anywhere near the podium on the gp23? All 3 riders who rode the gp23 that are now on the 24 stated from the get go the bike is better. Its visually better. The results are better. The riders who went from the 22 to 23 are worse. Everything points toward the 24 being better. Hell even the 22 is better. Keep barking off ........ doggy.

I guess you missed Marc's save of old this weekend during fp3. Its all over the net. Check it out.

So, IN OTHER WORDS a ONE TRICK PONY, yes?

It's never a nice feeling when your rider is defeated in battle for victory, but I must be pleased for 2nd in main race as great result.

MdubSTYLIE said:

If it happens to Pecco yes. If Pecco does it no. One of the most commendable things about Marc is when he is raced hard he doesn't complain. He takes it and congratulates the winner. Had the move today been the other way around Pecco would be crying to the media. Hell he even does that when he is at fault.

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Well, to be fair, Pecco is a smooth criminal. He just sort of pokes you with the blade and leans on it underneath his cloak. Some of the other guys are more like Texas chainsaw massacre. Aleix was trying to impress Mugabe or something. Mussolini died on April 28th so I guess Morbidelli was trying to make sure he's not forgotten It was getting ugly out there.

MdubSTYLIE said:

would you say Enea has had huge advancements on the gp24? Also riders who rode the gp22 and huge losses this year? I would

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I would but not "huge", though. It's true from the GP22 to GP23 there were some important modifications regarding power delivery (again, seems Ducati has only that to change now lol) and riders who came from the 22 have struggled a bit. But the GP23 dominated last year by FAR, with 13 wins out of 20, with 4 (all four!) different riders, including Enea who won at Malaysia. So we had 4 GP22 and 4 GP23. The GP23 took 13 wins with all her 4 riders. The GP22 won 4 races with 2 riders only. So, calm down. Enea's bad season might cause some weird feeling about the GP23 but let's not forget he crashed, got hurt and stayed away from racing a lot of time. But once he returned, he got to the grips with the GP23 and did well in the last part of the season. So it's not a crap neither a bad bike. Take it easy. It's championship material. It's, actually, the current champion machine.

michaelm said:

Which is doubtless why they have all been slower than the GP24s in the first 3 races except in MM’s hands.

And MM doesn’t have any set up for himself and his own riding style, and if anything I suspect his brother is benefiting from his set up data, not that I have ever been convinced sorting bikes is MM’s forte, he has always like the line in the old movie just ridden them imo.

In any case take up your argument with Marco Bezzecchi, the winner of 3 races on a GP22, who was finding the GP23 difficult, or with Gigi who has flat out said MM has a bike disadvantage. And btw how long are you going to ignore that the current GP23 riders don’t have the very well settled and set-up version of the GP23 if it is the case that the bike did finish the season that way ?, but rather the Qatar 20023 version.

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No rider has a "setup" for himself in a bike he never rode before. That's not a MM exclusivity. What he has and every other GP23 rider is the base very well defined and ready to go, and then they build from there. You guys keep saying this thing about updates to Gp23 but I sincerely don't remember the bike getting big updates from Qatar to Valencia. If I remeber well there was something with aero and then only eletrocnics (which does not demand hardware upgrades). I think Ducati will give that to MM for tomorrow tests.

Gigi said MM has a bike handcap, however, that is not entirely true for all tracks. Himself has said just a couple of hours ago, it's not the case at Jerez (go to GPone, it's fresh news, look for Dalligna picture and click to read).

EDITED: Guys, the GP23 has just won the 1st and 2nd championship spots. Calm down.

mylexicon said:

Well, Martin is the best championship leader from a spectator's standpoint. He never fails to keep it interesting.

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He commited a mistake today, but I like this guy. He really brings fun to the show and never disapoints. It's like he's always pushing to the maximum. Remembers me Ianonne but with a higher IQ.

dogfight said:

For me the Duc 24 has more potential, but it needs time to fix the new issues rising from modifications applied to the new bike. So as time goes on, Duc 24 will be superior to Duc 23. At the start of the season, it is 50/50.

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Sure, the GP24 brought some chattering. So it's not that the GP24 is a superior bike in every area. Maybe some guys can think of this way but aren't they ignoring the fact that the GP24 is being ridden by the world champion and the vice world champion, the current best and fastest 2 riders of MGP?

Also, today Bezzechi (GP23) finished ahead of Enea (GP24). So what?

MdubSTYLIE said:

This entire post is dog piss. As usual Marc lives rent free in the head of his haters who make irrational statements based on their dreams.

Are we sure that the gp24 is better than the 23? 100% yes. Who before today other than Marc was anywhere near the podium on the gp23? All 3 riders who rode the gp23 that are now on the 24 stated from the get go the bike is better. Its visually better. The results are better. The riders who went from the 22 to 23 are worse. Everything points toward the 24 being better. Hell even the 22 is better. Keep barking off ........ doggy.

I guess you missed Marc's save of old this weekend during fp3. Its all over the net. Check it out.

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wtf mate.. ahahaha. You're going off the line a bit with your thinking.

It is obvious when the GP24 is in its top setting it is 10mph faster then anything else on the track. There were a couple instances where Bagnaia would hit that switch and the bike would have an instant boost of power, in particular down the back stretch heading towards turn 6.

Hollywood said:

It is obvious when the GP24 is in its top setting it is 10mph faster then anything else on the track. There were a couple instances where Bagnaia would hit that switch and the bike would have an instant boost of power, in particular down the back stretch heading towards turn 6.

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are you serious?