Nobody here would consider it acceptable if a mechanic refused to wrench a precise setting that was demanded by the crew chief if that mechanic capriciously believed he "knew" better. The same standard to Jorge Lorenzo-one of many team members (fact) is NOT being applied, rather conveniently but certainly not consistently. 'Nah, I don’t think 3 clicks on the rear shock is a good idea, I'll just do my own thing, i think i "know" what the chief meant in my own way, I've been doing this for a long time, I've been part of championship teams before.' Well, that's a reasonable 'principle' we can all defend, right? (Sarcasm) It's a double standard!
It's an untenable position folks.
But surely we aren't ignoring that Dovi has been at Ducati a number of years now as opposed to Lorenzo's first year? And likewise do you not think that Ducati's performances this year could possibly have something to do with Lorenzo's input?
Sure, I'll play along my friend. Lorenzo is considered an "alien" full stop. He belongs to a class of few riders that the public perception is above and beyond Dovi--2nd tier rider. In other words, the context of comparing Lorenzo to Dovi, first/last year or otherwise is that Lorenzo was hired as the top mercenary to take Ducati 'motorcycle' factory to the title. I find the arbitrary pass for Lorenzo's 'adjustment period' unreasonable in this context. Did Viñalez get such a pass? How about Stoner when he jumped to Honda, because you know, the Ducati is so different you need a whole year, bla bla. It's something we've fabricated out of thin air to rationalize Lorenzo's absolute failure considering his 'elite status' amongst elites. Rank the current names of MotoGP, here is what most people would submit: 1. Marquez 2. Lorenzo 3. X. Who you gonna put in front of Lorenzo? Nobody.
The motorcycle Lorenzo inherited won 2 races by two different riders by the time Jorge started making development inputs. Ok, I'll grant you he's made the bike better, that is a tiny consolation for winning zero races over an entire year where his far "inferior" teammate has won 6. That "first year" adjustment period is given far too much disproportionate weight! At this point it's a copout.
Let's examine this supposed "first year" adjustment period notion further, since you're elevating the point as pivotal to Lorenzo's horrible performance, and strangely, some justification for him failing to cede the position to Dovi at Valencia (odd but ok, I'll go with it) . Surely this notion must have more 'points of reference', unless you're weighing this notion as if Lorenzo is a rookie to the class, or something similar, which he's not. The notion is he needs an adjustment period for what amounts to an unfamiliar motorcycle, ok let's take a look. Therefore, a comparison to Viñalez is a reasonable reference. Factoring in Viñalez isn't nowhere near as experienced nor rated as Lorenzo, yet he jumped manufacturers (note, different motorcycle factory) and won 3 races, competed for podiums and runners up, contended for the very championship up until the last few races of the season. Oh, but the Ducati is completely different, who are we to say judge the magnitude of difference comparatively between Yamaha vs Suzuki and Yamaha vs Ducati, hell even Dovi can win 6 races on it. I agree, Ducati is special, surely an alien like Lorenzo can unlock the code when an "inferior" rider, in perception far inferior to Lorenzo can win 6 races to Jorge's zero. How much weight is reasonable to handicap Lorenzo’s inability to match his "inferior" teammate on the same bike; or the rookiesk Viñalez another "inferior " rider who also needed an "adjustment" mulligan which also (note) changed manufacturers? Is there no expectation on Lorenzo? If so, you'll need to make a far more substantial case for it other than "it was his first year at riding another motorcycle" (one that won 6 races, not including satellite Petrucci being denied a win at Assen, plus another runner's up spot).
Let's be real here, Dovi has been capable of getting past Marquez this year yet we're meant to swallow that he deliberately held back from attempting an overtake of Jorge? Is no one considering that he simply couldn't get past him? I didn't see a moment in the race when Dovi drew alongside and Jorge blocked him. Likewise, when Dovi was 'released' after JLo binned it, how did he react to being freed from the evil games of JLo? He stacked it.
You're not the first person to say this, and frankly, these very points have been fully address in this thread, but I'll oblige you specifically then. Your premise is that all races and conditions are the same for riders to be able to 'duplicate exactly' what they've done in other occasions. Or as you put it, because Dovi pasted Marc before 'therefore' he can duplicate it here. "Let's be real"? Honestly, i wouldn't know where to begin to refute such mistaken logic because I'd need to go back to the fundamentals of racing, the very fundamentals of competition, motorsport, and physics. But I'll skip ahead, to say Dovi has beat Marquez on X occasion 'therefore' he could have done so to Lorenzo in this occasion is grossly simplistic. Following your premise, hell why stop at Lorenzo, why not just battle for the lead against Marquez right? He's done it before, right? Full stop.
But I'll continue to entertain your impossible premise, skipping ahead; a race plays out over a distance, there are many variables not the least being a function of time, contrasting styles, performance strengths and weaknesses, then over this period, fuel consumption, tire wear vs conservation, ebbs and flows throughout the performance cycles of each machine and rider, etc.etc.
I don’t doubt and neither should you that Dovi could have forced the issue on Lorenzo, ala Andrea Iannone, however it's clear Dovi, Ducati, and every swinging dick involved and watching figured Lorenzo wouldn't put Dovi in a predicament to risk crashing for a mere pass on his 'teammate'. See Pedrosa, Honda. If Dovi dive bombs, makes contact, both lose momentum, you would have said how stupid of Dovi. There is a reasonable explanation why he didn't go Stuka on Lorenzo, because like everybody else we figured Lorenzo was going to cede the position, why? Because that's reasonable, it was what the rival team was doing and therefore needed to be matched as a countermeasures, and the team demanded it! The reasonable explanation is that Dovi was duped under false pretenses. Do you think if it were Marquez a bike length in front of him that he wouldn't have pulled a move? Precisely because it was Lorenzo he didn't dive bomb or as you say "harass " to make his intention known, as if it wasn’t abundantly clear to Lorenzo. You sound like Lorenzo came into this race unaware of the situation and the stakes. Riding along, hey, nobody is showing me a wheel, that must mean this dash message and pit board message is confusing.
When Dovi was "released" as you put it, it was at a 'stage in the race' that methodically pushing forward was already neutralized! It's an important aspect that you've completely glossed over or fail to understand. It's one thing to have 20 laps to push vs 6 laps to push when the main protagonists almost crashed in front of you. When Dovi was "released" it was precisely at a win or bin moment. The time to mount a long drive had passed, it was now hail mary time thanks in part to Lorenzo!
Have you ever seen a hail mary play? It's a 'last minute' ditch effort that most always turns out failing, the crucial question here is: do you understand why this is true? I'm not so sure you do, because you're pointing to Dovi's crash and concluding, you see, nothing would have been gained from Lorenzo pulling aside. I'll spell it out, Dovi was put in a position that on top of the snow balls chance in hell to win the title, it was further complicated by a teammate that made the mountain to climb a tiny bit harder by 'eliminating' /frustrating some of the crucial 'TIME' to pull off a miracle.
Now maybe JLo should have moved over to let Dovi go even though he hadn't been seeing Dovi harassing him on the track. Maybe JLo should be a nice compliant rider that extinguishes his ego and desire to win on the command of his team and without any evidence that his teammate would prosper from his appeasement. Maybe JLo should have tried to win favour with all the pundits who were quick to admit their long held prejudices against him because of him not stepping aside.
You're being coy about your point here, but I'll assume your message is that there is no obligation between riders employed by the same manufacturer to follow management's demands. You are simply wrong, because the messages Ducati dispatched make it clear the expectation was for Lorenzo to behave in this case as a factory employee subject to their demands. We can offer eachother our thoughts on such a dynamic, tell eachother we hate team orders, its a moot point; fact is that's irrelevant. For reference, see how Pedrosa conducted his race and the obvious 'discipline' that he followed as a Honda employee.
But I'll still address your incorrect premise, that being Lorenzo was not under any expectation. Regarding your point of not being "harassed on the track" to alert him of tge situation apparently he was unaware of according to you, Lorenzo's pit board showed "Dovi +0", if you don’t think Lorenzo can interpret that as your teammate is directly behind you then this entire exercise of debate is either disingenuous or futile. Your arbitrary standard for Lorenzo to "know" his teammate was behind him was to be "harassed". Dovi needed to "harass" Lorenzo to be "seen" according to your assertion. No offense, but that's ridiculous.
You say there was "no evidence" his teammate might prosper from ceding the position, what do you consider "evidence"? The fact they were locked in the lead group is all the 'evidence' (the root word being 'evident') you'd need, his rival Marquez looking back repeatedly, that's evidence of a possibility that pressure was a real factor, and the most glaring evidence that apparently you and Lorenzo missed is that this became 'evident' when Marquez nearly crashed! There was plenty of "evidence" that Dovi could "prosper" from Lorenzo not blocking or ceding the position, you are incorrect on this point. Evidence does not mean it needed to be a slam dunk proposition, there was plenty of evidence that a possibility exited where Dovi might prosper in real time as the race played out. Contrast that to Pedrosa, whose awareness of 'evidence' that Marquez needed his reassurance (needed or not) was provided the benefit of the doubt!
False premise, the pundits opinion is irrelevant because this wasn't an issue between Lorenzo and pundits, it was an issue between Lorenzo and Ducati management. Ducati were trying to win a championship despite you and others thinking it was a foregone conclusion lending credence to Lorenzo's selfish actions; the possibility still existed to win the title and therefore they were actively trying to manage it, that is their job! Lorenzo doesn't engineer the bike, he shouldn't be making those decisions, he doesn't work in the accounting department, if he overruled the accountant it would be absurd, the team manager has a job, it was hus decision to make, Lorenzo is not beholden to pundits, he is however beholden to the part of the organization that makes the type of decision he refused to comply.
What I do know is that JLo is a racer and a winner and it does take a certain amount of alpha male ....... to be a successful champion. Look at Senna or Schumacher or even Marquez. They wouldn't be the type to meekly step aside for no real advantage because a team was instructing or a press contingent was clamouring for him to do the nice thing.
I'm afraid they'll be the ones remembered in the history books and also rans like Gibernau, Pedrosa and Dovi (no matter how nice they are) will not.
First of all, I dispelled this notion that there wasn't 'evidence' for a possible advantage to Dovi which was evident to Lorenzo and his team mangers, but let's move on.
Famous people, champions, are remembered for various aspects of their lives, not just their championships. The way these people conducted themselves is also remembered by some and often is the reason they are admired. Think this year.
In addition, you are suggesting that these champions have achieved their accomplishments solely on the "alpha male ......." element of their personality, or at least it's a necessary element, again you are mistaken. Every single "......." who has made it as a champion has been part of a greater effort behind the scenes, and more importantly: being on a capable package and performing on it during a season that lots of things have gone right, either by design or by luck. My assertion is Lorenzo conducted himself to negatively affect and effect one of millions of tiny elements that individually seem insignificant. You are taking one of these tiny seemingly insignificant elements and saying it doesn't matter, it didn’t matter, that is the premise of yours and others of similar thought. I refute this premise, every little thing counts towards a championship, it can and often does have significant impact on the outcome.
For a moment imagine a team member in the roster of Ducati Corse having the attitude of doing their own thing, even going rouge and applying an algorithm that was specifically 'flawed' except he "believed" to be doing the right thing. Let's say a 2nd tier engineer, perhaps even an intern. Nobody here would think this acceptable, but you're position is if it's the rider then he can do what he "believed" was best for the team despite explicit demands to the contrary. Is that a sustainable standard for a collective type organizations to operate under?
Let's examine your premise here further, as it has lots of holes. Lorenzo isn't Mr. Nice guy, so then, why didn’t he win this year's championship? Nice guy Dovi won 6 races ....... Lorenzo zero, perhaps that "....... guy" element you're assigning weight isn't so consequential after all, eh? What exactly prevented "assholeness" Lorenzo, that winning element as you say, to win this year? Let's see, "Lorenzo alpha ......." rode a competitive machine, right? Fact. Evidently the Ducati package contended for the title up until 6 laps from the season's conclusion, fact. Lorenzo was healthy, supported, experienced, was a former series multiple champ, #1 status, etc. etc. That "....... factor" didn’t amount to much success! Perhaps maybe you're assigning misguided importance to this characteristics my friend.
Bottom line, your position that a rogue element of a 'team' is acceptable is untenable. Their 'belief' (faith) does not overcome the obligation to act in a manner consistent with the group's effort and explicit demands by management. The likelihood of the race playing out predictably falls on its face when you consider Marquez almost crashed, Dovi was in the lead group. Pace has zero to do with a potential win when the leaders, which were momentary reduced to two disputing the lead can possibly crash out. The contention that nice guys finish last is a false notion, ........ don't always finish first, even when they're on machine that have won 6 races, notion debunked. I will concede though, ........ alway get away with it.
If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.
