WTH is up with Toni Elias?

If Elias was testing stuff for Honda then he is testing stuff that doesn't work. Not only does it not work but it doesn't work anywhere on any track, any temperature, dry or wet. So why would he be testing stuff that does not work? The Honda is a good package and it would be pretty hard to come up with new stuff that you think might work but consistently fails week in week out.



Back to reality...... Elias should be dropped immediately. People have suggested he is a talented rider well I beg to differ. If he was talented he would change his style. Has anyone seen Elias do anything even remotely different to what he has always done? No. He still hangs off the bike to a ridiculous degree. I say that if he can't or won't change then he should go back to club racing and stop wasting the opportunity and let someone else come in and have a real go. The are too many bloody Spanish riders anyway so get rid of him and bring in someone from a nationality not yet represented and let them run around at the back whilst they bring new viewers and potentially new sponsors.



Rant over.....

Maybe because he's scared of a challenge....just like you

Mental Anarchist said:

Back to reality...... Elias should be dropped immediately. People have suggested he is a talented rider well I beg to differ. If he was talented he would change his style. Has anyone seen Elias do anything even remotely different to what he has always done? No. He still hangs off the bike to a ridiculous degree. I say that if he can't or won't change then he should go back to club racing and stop wasting the opportunity and let someone else come in and have a real go. The are too many bloody Spanish riders anyway so get rid of him and bring in someone from a nationality not yet represented and let them run around at the back whilst they bring new viewers and potentially new sponsors.



Rant over.....

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What a load of crap. I think Elias and his team seriously need to consider parting ways because his riding is not suitable for motogp, but to suggest he isn't talented is totally ......... Adaptability is a valuable ability but Toni is a race winner in all 3 classes and a world champion, he is a world class GP rider any way you look at it.

Tom said:

What a load of crap. I think Elias and his team seriously need to consider parting ways because his riding is not suitable for motogp, but to suggest he isn't talented is totally ......... Adaptability is a valuable ability but Toni is a race winner in all 3 classes and a world champion, he is a world class GP rider any way you look at it.

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his race results suggest he's an average rider at best.

“It was one of the worst races of my career because we could not even match yesterday’s lap time. We probably took the wrong direction with the set up, as the front and rear grip was really poor for the whole race. At the end we scored some points, but I feel bad for the team and for my fans. There’s something wrong and we need a radical change because we all deserve a better result. We have all been working hard since the winter test and we will continue this way”.



He is obviously putting the blame on the tyre's

Pinky said:

his race results suggest he's an average rider at best.

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wrong. the average rider does not win a motogp race, the average rider does not win a GP world championship.

Tom said:

wrong. the average rider does not win a motogp race, the average rider does not win a GP world championship.

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With all due respect Tom I disagree. An average rider can have a good day and win a race. An average rider can have a good season and win a championship. It depends on the circumstances and the competition.



He won a race when he was given a set of tyres that particularly suited him. He won a championship when it was a new formula and much of his competition had not ridden 4 strokes before.



A talented rider wins despite obstacles that a placed in their way not just when all the planets are lined up and the wind is blowing in the right direction. If Elias was truly a great rider he would have learned how to make the bike and tyres work and adapted his style to suit. His comments are all about trying to change the equipment not about changing himself.



Where would Stoner be now if he had not learned and adapted his style to suit a bike that no one else could succeed with? Then he adapted again to ride a completely different bike in the Honda. A talented rider will jump on any bike on that grid, even the Suzuki, and drag it to the front few places on the grid despite the difficulties. An average rider will finish where the bike is capable of finishing only.



If he can not adapt then I say he is worse than average.

Can Elias do this?







No he can not. Why? Because he style is wrong and his body is in the way. It would be very interesting but probably quite predictable to look at Elias's bikes lean angle compared to the field. I have no doubt that the angles are significantly less than every other rider. Is this why the tyres don't work?

Mental Anarchist said:

With all due respect Tom I disagree. An average rider can have a good day and win a race. An average rider can have a good season and win a championship. It depends on the circumstances and the competition.



He won a race when he was given a set of tyres that particularly suited him. He won a championship when it was a new formula and much of his competition had not ridden 4 strokes before.



A talented rider wins despite obstacles that a placed in their way not just when all the planets are lined up and the wind is blowing in the right direction. If Elias was truly a great rider he would have learned how to make the bike and tyres work and adapted his style to suit. His comments are all about trying to change the equipment not about changing himself.



Where would Stoner be now if he had not learned and adapted his style to suit a bike that no one else could succeed with? Then he adapted again to ride a completely different bike in the Honda. A talented rider will jump on any bike on that grid, even the Suzuki, and drag it to the front few places on the grid despite the difficulties. An average rider will finish where the bike is capable of finishing only.



If he can not adapt then I say he is worse than average.

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Firstly, i don't believe for one second that an average rider can have a good season and win a world championship at grand prix level. That is just ridiculous and i would confidently predict is factually wrong, your standard is set unreasoanbly high. Plus you have put are speculating if Elias was 'truly a great rider...' but i am not claiming Elias is a great rider, nor would I. Additionally you put way too much focuss on adaptability, Carl Fogarty is the best superbike rider of all time but couldn't adapt to save his life, is Toseland better because he won with 2 and 4 cylinders. No chance.

Mental Anarchist said:

Can Elias do this?



No he can not. Why?

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Not the best rider in the world = below average. Do me a favour, consider the meaning of your actual statement before you say such stupid things. Or at least add some context to what you say, Elias is below average of the current motgp Honda riders but in the context of GP racing in the last 1o years or so he is definitely above average.

Mental Anarchist said:

Can Elias do this?

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Can Stoner do this?





I think he's been caught out by the tires and the situation won't change soon, so this will be his last season in the top class. He provided some good racing at times.



I just hope he doesn't get mentally crushed a la Melandri, before he goes.

Mental Anarchist said:

Back to reality...... Elias should be dropped immediately.

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Have you got a replacement rider in mind? Let's remember LCR don't have any money and Dorna have lined their pockets to get the reigning Moto2 champion on a Honda. So you need to find a grand prix caliber rider, who is available to ride the remaining rounds, and has sponsors willing to pay his salary. The only rider I can think of that even comes close is Gabor Talmacsi. But he only won a world championship in 125s, so according to your rider talent scale, that must make him, what, extremely poor?



Elias is a very talented, if inflexible, rider who can't cope with the stiffness of the Bridgestones. Like I said before, he would perform much better on the squishy Pirellis.

Dvega said:

“It was one of the worst races of my career because we could not even match yesterday’s lap time. We probably took the wrong direction with the set up, as the front and rear grip was really poor for the whole race. At the end we scored some points, but I feel bad for the team and for my fans. There’s something wrong and we need a radical change because we all deserve a better result. We have all been working hard since the winter test and we will continue this way”.



He is obviously putting the blame on the tyre's

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WSBK is the radical change Elias requires. MotoGP has lots of world class talent who cannot cope with the fuel limitations or the control tires. I'm not sure why riders like Dovi, Hayden, Elias, and other grand prix winners hang around GP on uncompetitive equipment, but they should be looking elsewhere.

Austin said:

Have you got a replacement rider in mind? Let's remember LCR don't have any money and Dorna have lined their pockets to get the reigning Moto2 champion on a Honda. So you need to find a grand prix caliber rider, who is available to ride the remaining rounds, and has sponsors willing to pay his salary. The only rider I can think of that even comes close is Gabor Talmacsi. But he only won a world championship in 125s, so according to your rider talent scale, that must make him, what, extremely poor?



Elias is a very talented, if inflexible, rider who can't cope with the stiffness of the Bridgestones. Like I said before, he would perform much better on the squishy Pirellis.

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Like I said bring someone in from a nationality that is unrepresented. I would not suggest bringing in someone who has tried and proven themselves to be just another average rider. I am sure a talent scout could head to some national series and pluck a rider with raw talent and bring them into the series and they would do as well if not better than Elias is doing NOW. With it they would bring the interest of a Nation.



Now don't tell me there is no one with talent out there because there has to be but just because they are not on the world scene they never get a chance and for many young riders in non traditional WC countries they have zero chance of ever getting a break.



Hell I can't ride for .... and I reckon I could do better than Elias with some slicks on my 690r, especially on the tight circuits.

Toni Elias is a MotoGP quality rider, of this there cannot be any doubt. Somethings up with that package.



Karel Abraham is dicing with Capirossi, granted for 10th place. Now go back and review Moto2 last year, compare Abraham with Elias.

So is the general concensus that its the tyres? If so they might as well replace him now because the tyres aren't changing anytime soon, as much as I like him I don't see things getting better. He described Barcelona as the worst race of his career, and that was with the much anticipated 2011 chassis.



What I dont get is the pitch thing though? They say they've softened the bike up to try and get tyre temperature but Elias doesnt like it pitching. Surely its only doing that mostly under braking and power and much less when the bike is cranked over and surely its not just the fact he leans off the bike thats giving him tyre temperature trouble?

Mental Anarchist said:

Like I said bring someone in from a nationality that is unrepresented. I would not suggest bringing in someone who has tried and proven themselves to be just another average rider. I am sure a talent scout could head to some national series and pluck a rider with raw talent and bring them into the series and they would do as well if not better than Elias is doing NOW. With it they would bring the interest of a Nation.



Now don't tell me there is no one with talent out there because there has to be but just because they are not on the world scene they never get a chance and for many young riders in non traditional WC countries they have zero chance of ever getting a break.



Hell I can't ride for .... and I reckon I could do better than Elias with some slicks on my 690r, especially on the tight circuits.

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Even if you take the best riders from the best domestic series in the world, it's going to take them time to adjust to the flexibility of a grand prix motorcycle and the talent and speed at which they're ridden. To pluck an unknown and put him on a MotoGP bike simply won't work. Remember when Ryuichi Kiyonari was given Gibernau's satellite Honda when Gibs was promoted to Kato's factory bike? It was a disaster. And he was the next big thing from Japan. And you've still not addressed the notion of this unknown securing sponsorship. Unless your point about bringing the interest of a nation alludes to each of its citizens passing around a collection plate destined for Lucio Cecchinello.

Mental Anarchist said:

Can Elias do this?

No he can not. Why? Because he style is wrong and his body is in the way. It would be very interesting but probably quite predictable to look at Elias's bikes lean angle compared to the field. I have no doubt that the angles are significantly less than every other rider. Is this why the tyres don't work?

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Thats an awsome photo.

Dibs to Krop (or whoever took it).

Sorry - double

Austin said:

Elias is a very talented, if inflexible, rider who can't cope with the stiffness of the Bridgestones. Like I said before, he would perform much better on the squishy Pirellis.

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Austin, you hit the problem on the head with just one word (all IMO of course) - inflexible



Now to my take on it.



I am gravely disappointed in Elias this season as the LCR package deserves better results than they have been getting, but I also suspect that this is a problem of the entire team (rider/bike/mechanic/tyres etc) rather than only the one component. Elias is good, no he is not (IMO) a likely MGP champion but is far better than he has shown this year and personally I suspect that his confidence is so dented by what he perceives as the problem, that his entire season and career may be in jeopardy unless he can get around it.



RdP showed last year that the LCR is not entirely a dud so Elias needs to change what needs to be changed physically whilst the team need to sort out their side to make this thing at least competitive with the likes of the field lower half.

#22 said:

So is the general concensus that its the tyres? If so they might as well replace him now because the tyres aren't changing anytime soon, as much as I like him I don't see things getting better. He described Barcelona as the worst race of his career, and that was with the much anticipated 2011 chassis.

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And another that paints the picture.



Yep, the tyres aren't changing so if Elias cannot there is no answer other than a rider replacement.



But, in Elias' favour of course is that this is the last season of 800's which may buy him additional time as next year we revert to the 1000 capacity bikes and all aspects are an unknown.

Nuts said:

Thats an awsome photo.

Dibs to Krop (or whoever took it).

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