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Ben showed he is a rookie today. Typical rookie mistake made during the heat of battle. Valencia has historically been a Haga/Ducati track. Valencia has never been favorable to the M1 or the power it makes. Ben would have done well to steal a win this weekend, a double would have been superhuman.
At this point I'm furious with the dolt at Speed who wrote the article on Ben this week. While it obviously has no effect on the race results, it does have a huge impact on people's expectations. That article was a work of statistical frivolity used to compare Spies to the other WSBK greats and ultimately to equate Spies' performance to the work of Doohan. It served no purpose other than to cause a stir and garner hits on the speed website.
After today's results their are many massively disappointed fans and a journalist who looks like a disingenuous imbecile who was out to collect as many views as possible.
As far as the championship is concerned, Spies has dealt himself a crushing blow. Haga and Ducati are incredibly strong, all Haga has to do is follow Spies around and wait for a mistake or an opportunity to steal a couple more wins.
Barring any major mistakes/injuries to Haga he will probably remain comfortably in command. Spies knows he cannot rely on any help from the rear, it could lead him to make more mistakes in the future.
Oddly enough, Hopper may end up to be a big help to Spies. Biaggi and Neukirchner are really the only 2 with the ability to send Haga off the box on race day. Hopper seems to be on a linear learning curve. He should be up to speed within a few rounds.
Ben showed he is a rookie today. Typical rookie mistake made during the heat of battle. Valencia has historically been a Haga/Ducati track. Valencia has never been favorable to the M1 or the power it makes. Ben would have done well to steal a win this weekend, a double would have been superhuman.
At this point I'm furious with the dolt at Speed who wrote the article on Ben this week. While it obviously has no effect on the race results, it does have a huge impact on people's expectations. That article was a work of statistical frivolity used to compare Spies to the other WSBK greats and ultimately to equate Spies' performance to the work of Doohan. It served no purpose other than to cause a stir and garner hits on the speed website.
After today's results their are many massively disappointed fans and a journalist who looks like a disingenuous imbecile who was out to collect as many views as possible.
As far as the championship is concerned, Spies has dealt himself a crushing blow. Haga and Ducati are incredibly strong, all Haga has to do is follow Spies around and wait for a mistake or an opportunity to steal a couple more wins.
Barring any major mistakes/injuries to Haga he will probably remain comfortably in command. Spies knows he cannot rely on any help from the rear, it could lead him to make more mistakes in the future.
Oddly enough, Hopper may end up to be a big help to Spies. Biaggi and Neukirchner are really the only 2 with the ability to send Haga off the box on race day. Hopper seems to be on a linear learning curve. He should be up to speed within a few rounds.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Apr 5 2009, 09:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>At this point I'm furious with the dolt at Speed who wrote the article on Ben this week. While it obviously has no effect on the race results, it does have a huge impact on people's expectations. That article was a work of statistical frivolity used to compare Spies to the other WSBK greats and ultimately to equate Spies' performance to the work of Doohan. It served no purpose other than to cause a stir and garner hits on the speed website.
After today's results their are many massively disappointed fans and a journalist who looks like a disingenuous imbecile who was out to collect as many views as possible.
Oddly enough, Hopper may end up to be a big help to Spies. Biaggi and Neukirchner are really the only 2 with the ability to send Haga off the box on race day. Hopper seems to be on a linear learning curve. He should be up to speed within a few rounds.
Yeah, lex, and Watergate was the Washington Post's fault!! (or at least changed our "expectations" of Dicky
)
No ONE is disappointed, we're more awed that he IS human!
But ya finished well, Hopper WILL get better.
After today's results their are many massively disappointed fans and a journalist who looks like a disingenuous imbecile who was out to collect as many views as possible.
Oddly enough, Hopper may end up to be a big help to Spies. Biaggi and Neukirchner are really the only 2 with the ability to send Haga off the box on race day. Hopper seems to be on a linear learning curve. He should be up to speed within a few rounds.
Yeah, lex, and Watergate was the Washington Post's fault!! (or at least changed our "expectations" of Dicky
But ya finished well, Hopper WILL get better.
David tardozzi must have hypnotized nori, he is actually riding strategically for the championship this year, and seems to have devised a method of riding the ducati fast which is different to that of troy bayliss. Spies needs to ride strategically as well, as he did in the second race, this is reputedly ducati's track. I wouldn't give up on him for the championship yet, it is rare for anyone let alone haga to get through a wsbk season without incident; bayliss scored no points at all in either race in one of the american rounds last year.
If spies doesn't win this year my money will be on him next year if he is still in wsbk, and I don't imagine it would be too upsetting for most if nori finally won the thing anyway.
If spies doesn't win this year my money will be on him next year if he is still in wsbk, and I don't imagine it would be too upsetting for most if nori finally won the thing anyway.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mick D @ Apr 5 2009, 02:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I don't know where to start with this ...... post...
1. Ben pushed too hard too early and lost it... he does not know "just how hard he can push"...
2. Yeah his "wealth of testing data at Phillip Island and Qatar" far outweighs the testing data of teams/riders who have done this for more than a rookie season...
3. Perhaps the sky is falling - WTF is this statement? - "Perhaps the front end feel is slghtly vaguer (more vague) than it has been."
Oh spicy one,we expect better than this...
So three senteces that you disagree with out of thirteen constitute a ...... post and left you with a nasty aftertaste? Sorry bout that Mick. How could you not know where to start with my '...... post' yet you only objected to three points? As I'm sure you know, try dissecting one of 'Berry's' posts and you've really got you're work cut out. But this isn't about anyone else, it's about my ...... post, and I shall attempt to clear the air.
1/ Historically he is very good at finding that limit very quickly and not crossing it. It's the very way that he pushes the front so hard, it seems as it's about to tuck, but it rarely does. Your axiomatic assessment goes without saying. Yeah of course he pushed too hard and lost it...but why do you say 'too early'?
2/ Yamaha Italia themselves commented that in respect of the new bike and their stellar start to the season, the tests at both Phillip Island and Qatar were very beneficial. Meregali has said this on several occasions, (and he's usually quite reticent on such matters), and also Houseworth and Spies himself, who mentioned it only this weekend in an interview with British Eurosport. Sure there's the pragmatic approach in racing, but this sport is all about evolution and change. WSB is replete with teams/riders who repeatedly squander the data gathered from previous seasons and yielded by pre-season testing. Furthermore, rookie rider maybe, but Yamaha Italia are one of the most experienced teams in the paddock for Christ's sake.
3/ Ben said that front end feel is the absolutely imperetive factor in setting up the bike, it's also very important at Valencia. Many riders have complained of a vague feeling at the front this weekend, - yeah sure it's one of bike racings platitudes, and I agree there probably wasn't that much more to Spies crash than the obvious fact that he went in too hot and perhaps trailed too much front brake. That said, how is pushing on lap 6 'too early'? That's the general idea of racing to push - he could see Haga pissing off into the distance, what was he supposed to do? And I repeat, Spies is very good at precisely that -pushing to, and finding that limit and keeping it upright...maybe he just lacked that precise front end feel in race 1 which he claims is so crucial. Despite that, he did make mention of the fact that his second bike in race 2 didn't feel as good. Anyhow, apologies for my own 'vague' statement.
Haga broke the race lap record which I was amused to learn was set in '03 by Hodgson on the Fila 999. Valencia was always his least favorite circuit, in fact he hated racing there.
I trust this post complies with your rigorous Quality Assurance standards unlike its predecessor.
1. Ben pushed too hard too early and lost it... he does not know "just how hard he can push"...
2. Yeah his "wealth of testing data at Phillip Island and Qatar" far outweighs the testing data of teams/riders who have done this for more than a rookie season...
3. Perhaps the sky is falling - WTF is this statement? - "Perhaps the front end feel is slghtly vaguer (more vague) than it has been."
Oh spicy one,we expect better than this...
So three senteces that you disagree with out of thirteen constitute a ...... post and left you with a nasty aftertaste? Sorry bout that Mick. How could you not know where to start with my '...... post' yet you only objected to three points? As I'm sure you know, try dissecting one of 'Berry's' posts and you've really got you're work cut out. But this isn't about anyone else, it's about my ...... post, and I shall attempt to clear the air.
1/ Historically he is very good at finding that limit very quickly and not crossing it. It's the very way that he pushes the front so hard, it seems as it's about to tuck, but it rarely does. Your axiomatic assessment goes without saying. Yeah of course he pushed too hard and lost it...but why do you say 'too early'?
2/ Yamaha Italia themselves commented that in respect of the new bike and their stellar start to the season, the tests at both Phillip Island and Qatar were very beneficial. Meregali has said this on several occasions, (and he's usually quite reticent on such matters), and also Houseworth and Spies himself, who mentioned it only this weekend in an interview with British Eurosport. Sure there's the pragmatic approach in racing, but this sport is all about evolution and change. WSB is replete with teams/riders who repeatedly squander the data gathered from previous seasons and yielded by pre-season testing. Furthermore, rookie rider maybe, but Yamaha Italia are one of the most experienced teams in the paddock for Christ's sake.
3/ Ben said that front end feel is the absolutely imperetive factor in setting up the bike, it's also very important at Valencia. Many riders have complained of a vague feeling at the front this weekend, - yeah sure it's one of bike racings platitudes, and I agree there probably wasn't that much more to Spies crash than the obvious fact that he went in too hot and perhaps trailed too much front brake. That said, how is pushing on lap 6 'too early'? That's the general idea of racing to push - he could see Haga pissing off into the distance, what was he supposed to do? And I repeat, Spies is very good at precisely that -pushing to, and finding that limit and keeping it upright...maybe he just lacked that precise front end feel in race 1 which he claims is so crucial. Despite that, he did make mention of the fact that his second bike in race 2 didn't feel as good. Anyhow, apologies for my own 'vague' statement.
Haga broke the race lap record which I was amused to learn was set in '03 by Hodgson on the Fila 999. Valencia was always his least favorite circuit, in fact he hated racing there.
I trust this post complies with your rigorous Quality Assurance standards unlike its predecessor.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Arrabbiata1 @ Apr 5 2009, 08:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I trust this post complies with your rigorous Quality Assurance standards unlike its predecessor.
Question? Has Haga ever had a season of zero dnf? It was obvious, the Ducs where great here, hell just look at how good Fabrizio did in the actual races.
Granted, you can't give Haga any breathing room, and Spies will need a stellar 4-5 rounds to catch up, but really, one dnf by Haga and its close again. Not worried...yet.
BTW, Hagas team manager looked much more relieved than Spies'...that tells me something.
Question? Has Haga ever had a season of zero dnf? It was obvious, the Ducs where great here, hell just look at how good Fabrizio did in the actual races.
BTW, Hagas team manager looked much more relieved than Spies'...that tells me something.
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I wasn't really pissing, Arrib... spent a solid six hours in the bar this afternoon watching F1 & WSBK... It just didn't strike me as your best..
Points one & three, Ben just showed he's human... there is NO doubt he will be a top 3 rider.
Point two... Yamaha Italia is the key. Their data history COMBINED with Ben's first two outings are the key.
Points one & three, Ben just showed he's human... there is NO doubt he will be a top 3 rider.
Point two... Yamaha Italia is the key. Their data history COMBINED with Ben's first two outings are the key.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Apr 5 2009, 07:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>lex, did spies die or something? geez dude.
goog race haga.
Worse, he's spotted Haga 50pts in only 3 rounds. Both DNF's resulted from shameful overriding.
1. Sitting on Biaggi's rear wheel while executing only the second turn of his WSBK career. I thought team Italia would have addressed it, but then he rode round the outside at the Southern loop just 2 hours after Biaggi brake-checked him off of the circuit.
2. Thinking about passing a Suzuki with 10 extra clicks at the end of a long straight when Ducati have been demonstrating poor tire durability late in the race.
I know it's easy for me to criticize from the sidelines (an unpopular move considering everyone is impressed by his raw talent), but I've played baseball my entire life and I've learned the importance of mental approach BEFORE the heat of battle. If you don't visualize various scenarios and work through contingency plans, you will commit mental errors over and over again.
Physical mistakes happen, you can't do anything but practice. Mental mistakes are avoidable by everyone from Red Bull Rookies to MotoGP.
goog race haga.
Worse, he's spotted Haga 50pts in only 3 rounds. Both DNF's resulted from shameful overriding.
1. Sitting on Biaggi's rear wheel while executing only the second turn of his WSBK career. I thought team Italia would have addressed it, but then he rode round the outside at the Southern loop just 2 hours after Biaggi brake-checked him off of the circuit.
2. Thinking about passing a Suzuki with 10 extra clicks at the end of a long straight when Ducati have been demonstrating poor tire durability late in the race.
I know it's easy for me to criticize from the sidelines (an unpopular move considering everyone is impressed by his raw talent), but I've played baseball my entire life and I've learned the importance of mental approach BEFORE the heat of battle. If you don't visualize various scenarios and work through contingency plans, you will commit mental errors over and over again.
Physical mistakes happen, you can't do anything but practice. Mental mistakes are avoidable by everyone from Red Bull Rookies to MotoGP.
Being a big Haga fan I was happy to see him pull the double. He was fast and flawless. The Ducati looking great on tire life now, he was still pulling fast laps right to the end.
Spies, big mistake in race 1, he seemed worried to watch Haga get away and desperate to get past Max N. Seen plenty of front in crashes in that turn 1 so I wasn't surprised, but big mistake championship wise to lose out on all those potential points. Race 2 he was more calculated the first few laps, and after settling into 2nd position he knew points were more important.
Fabio, good ride from the hairy Italian. Ducati have to be happy with his two podiums.
Fantastic performance from Laconi, sad to see him not give a go on Fabio in the final laps of race 2, but he and his team have to be damn pleased to be beating all those factory supported teams.
Haslam, another great performance, beating out the Ten Kate Honda's has got to give Stiggy a great boost.
Hopkins, as expected, top 10 within his grasp but just not enough to get there. Race 2 he clearly was on worn out tires as he was passed easily losing out on a chance for 8th. Still a good overall performance considering being very new to the paddock.
Bring on Assen, can't wait, one of my favorite tracks.
Spies, big mistake in race 1, he seemed worried to watch Haga get away and desperate to get past Max N. Seen plenty of front in crashes in that turn 1 so I wasn't surprised, but big mistake championship wise to lose out on all those potential points. Race 2 he was more calculated the first few laps, and after settling into 2nd position he knew points were more important.
Fabio, good ride from the hairy Italian. Ducati have to be happy with his two podiums.
Fantastic performance from Laconi, sad to see him not give a go on Fabio in the final laps of race 2, but he and his team have to be damn pleased to be beating all those factory supported teams.
Haslam, another great performance, beating out the Ten Kate Honda's has got to give Stiggy a great boost.
Hopkins, as expected, top 10 within his grasp but just not enough to get there. Race 2 he clearly was on worn out tires as he was passed easily losing out on a chance for 8th. Still a good overall performance considering being very new to the paddock.
Bring on Assen, can't wait, one of my favorite tracks.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (michaelm @ Apr 5 2009, 03:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I wouldn't give up on him for the championship yet, it is rare for anyone let alone haga to get through a wsbk season without incident; bayliss scored no points at all in either race in one of the american rounds last year.
I pointed out this stat a while ago on another thread, that just last year, there wasn't a single rider in the top ten without at least 2 DNF's.
Last year Bayliss won the overall with 3 DNF's and 2 finishes outside the points.
Corser was 2nd overall with 3 DNF's.
And Haga last year finished 3rd overall with 6 DNF's and 1 finish outside the points.
It's a long season.
I pointed out this stat a while ago on another thread, that just last year, there wasn't a single rider in the top ten without at least 2 DNF's.
Last year Bayliss won the overall with 3 DNF's and 2 finishes outside the points.
Corser was 2nd overall with 3 DNF's.
And Haga last year finished 3rd overall with 6 DNF's and 1 finish outside the points.
It's a long season.
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Apr 5 2009, 05:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Worse, he's spotted Haga 50pts in only 3 rounds. Both DNF's resulted from shameful overriding.
Spies has only had one DNF so far. He finished 16th in Race 1 at Phillip Island after going off the track twice.
Spies has only had one DNF so far. He finished 16th in Race 1 at Phillip Island after going off the track twice.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Apr 5 2009, 10:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Question? Has Haga ever had a season of zero dnf?
ya beat me 2 it... the answer is no
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Apr 5 2009, 11:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Worse, he's spotted Haga 50pts in only 3 rounds. Both DNF's resulted from shameful overriding.
damn you post some funny ....!
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bootsakah @ Apr 5 2009, 08:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I pointed out this stat a while ago on another thread, that just last year, there wasn't a single rider in the top ten without at least 2 DNF's.
Last year Bayliss won the overall with 3 DNF's and 2 finishes outside the points.
Corser was 2nd overall with 3 DNF's.
And Haga last year finished 3rd overall with 6 DNF's and 1 finish outside the points.
It's a long season.
What happened in 2002? I can't remember, but it seems like that would be a good place to start since the season resembles a two horse race.
Last year Bayliss won the overall with 3 DNF's and 2 finishes outside the points.
Corser was 2nd overall with 3 DNF's.
And Haga last year finished 3rd overall with 6 DNF's and 1 finish outside the points.
It's a long season.
What happened in 2002? I can't remember, but it seems like that would be a good place to start since the season resembles a two horse race.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Apr 6 2009, 09:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>What happened in 2002? I can't remember, but it seems like that would be a good place to start since the season resembles a two horse race.
2002 WSBK Season
Indeed, a 2 horse race so far. With Corser and Xaus moving to full time test rider roles, Ten Kate struggling big time, Sterigarda's Byrne having a hard time, Suzuki's doing so so, with exception of Biaggi's showing some potential, so far its been just Haga and Spies. Who I'm most impressed with has been Laconi, he is making fools of the factory teams while riding a privateer Ducati.
2002 WSBK Season
Indeed, a 2 horse race so far. With Corser and Xaus moving to full time test rider roles, Ten Kate struggling big time, Sterigarda's Byrne having a hard time, Suzuki's doing so so, with exception of Biaggi's showing some potential, so far its been just Haga and Spies. Who I'm most impressed with has been Laconi, he is making fools of the factory teams while riding a privateer Ducati.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bootsakah @ Apr 6 2009, 03:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>2002 WSBK Season
Indeed, a 2 horse race so far. With Corser and Xaus moving to full time test rider roles, Ten Kate struggling big time, Sterigarda's Byrne having a hard time, Suzuki's doing so so, with exception of Biaggi's showing some potential, so far its been just Haga and Spies. Who I'm most impressed with has been Laconi, he is making fools of the factory teams while riding a privateer Ducati.
Yeah the guy who finished second fell off only once. The guy who won never fell off and never finished below 4th. The champ also won fewer races.
In a two horse race, you can't fall off. That's the lesson from history.
Indeed, a 2 horse race so far. With Corser and Xaus moving to full time test rider roles, Ten Kate struggling big time, Sterigarda's Byrne having a hard time, Suzuki's doing so so, with exception of Biaggi's showing some potential, so far its been just Haga and Spies. Who I'm most impressed with has been Laconi, he is making fools of the factory teams while riding a privateer Ducati.
Yeah the guy who finished second fell off only once. The guy who won never fell off and never finished below 4th. The champ also won fewer races.
In a two horse race, you can't fall off. That's the lesson from history.
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Re - 2002.
Instead of re-running race 1 during the gap between Supersport and Race 2, (as they have in previous years), British Eurosport are showing classic vintage WSB races. This Sunday it was Imola, and I'd forgotten just how close and fraught with drama it actually was throughout. Both riders were balls out, if either one had gone down they handed the Championship to the other. Ducati imposed team orders on all their riders including privateers, and Xuas had the thankless task of trying to get between Troy and Colin...like that was ever going to happen. Early in the race Edwards made one of the best passes I've ever seen in motorcycle racing, down through either Piratella or Acque Minerali I think, (can't remember), which set the tone for the entire race. As I recall he and Rossi won the eight hour that year on the SP2, and HRC gifted the workshop in Louth with half a factory worth of new parts, because, for the first half of the season the Bayliss/Michelin/998 combination had been indomitable.
The only .... thing was the 750 four restriction which was still in place, which meant something like the top seven bikes were all twins. I remember going to Laguna that year and watching Lavilla busting his balls on the GSXR750 to be competetive, and later watching him hobble off in the direction of the Clinica Mobila after the nastiest of many highsides that weekend at turn 4. Because this took so long to repeal, the series degenerated into 'The Ducati Cup' for several years until the resurgence of the 1000cc four -albeit tentatively carrying mandatory air restriction in case they proved to be a threat to the Italian marque
Anyway, brilliant to see that this wonderful circuit is back on the calendar this year!
Instead of re-running race 1 during the gap between Supersport and Race 2, (as they have in previous years), British Eurosport are showing classic vintage WSB races. This Sunday it was Imola, and I'd forgotten just how close and fraught with drama it actually was throughout. Both riders were balls out, if either one had gone down they handed the Championship to the other. Ducati imposed team orders on all their riders including privateers, and Xuas had the thankless task of trying to get between Troy and Colin...like that was ever going to happen. Early in the race Edwards made one of the best passes I've ever seen in motorcycle racing, down through either Piratella or Acque Minerali I think, (can't remember), which set the tone for the entire race. As I recall he and Rossi won the eight hour that year on the SP2, and HRC gifted the workshop in Louth with half a factory worth of new parts, because, for the first half of the season the Bayliss/Michelin/998 combination had been indomitable.
The only .... thing was the 750 four restriction which was still in place, which meant something like the top seven bikes were all twins. I remember going to Laguna that year and watching Lavilla busting his balls on the GSXR750 to be competetive, and later watching him hobble off in the direction of the Clinica Mobila after the nastiest of many highsides that weekend at turn 4. Because this took so long to repeal, the series degenerated into 'The Ducati Cup' for several years until the resurgence of the 1000cc four -albeit tentatively carrying mandatory air restriction in case they proved to be a threat to the Italian marque
Anyway, brilliant to see that this wonderful circuit is back on the calendar this year!
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