Stoner Ruining the Sport

Good to have you back Andy and hope that all does go well with the surgeries mate.



It is a long and often hard road, but stay with it mate and keep giving those nurses hell.









Gaz

Hang in there Andy. You,ve been doing it tough. I hadn,t realised that it was that bad.



Maintain the rage.............. against maladjusted co-inhabitants, the remaining boppers.................and well ,.............just maintain the rage...................





Go, you good thing.



I,ll have to visit you..................after i,ve found Barry in his Watagans hide-out!

Thank you all of those who welcomed me back. There isn't words to describe the last 12 months, but I'll save my perhaps futile attempt for later.



I've been banging on for years now (not just when Stoner is going bad) that motogp has made itself redundant because the technologies are too easily applicable to road bikes (then of course super bikes) and the gap between them is too great in cost, but too modest in lap times.



Stoner as a long term contender would have killed motogp, hence his departure, he was as welcome as avian herpes and the biggest pay day he perhaps ever got in the sport was when the door smacked his arse on the way out.



The money is Spanish and Italian (and therefore borrowed from China) and is running out. When Rossi leaves the sport the gamble is that the Spanish and Italian riders (with some token Brits and Yanks, with one midfield Aussie) have the pulling power of Rossi.



If not then as the money dries up watch the sport go through torturous rule changing routines to try and create a spectacle that is lacking in motogp, but WSBK has in droves.



Stoner isn't (or hasn't) ruined (or ruining) motogp but is probably the first outward casualty of its impending demise. I do not suggest that it is deliberate act so much as he can feel that his presence to motogp the business is that of a problem and not a rider. The symptom is gone but not the cause.



Motogp is like watching your girlfriend grow a moustache and get fat with pimples. She still goes good in the sack but...this is not an insurmountable problem (there are diets and surgery and other costly things), BUT...



WSBK lives next door, is single, likes you AND looks like Miranda Kerr and sun bakes topless. And asks you to come over and hold her feet while she does sit ups. And drinks wine in her T shirt and undies and paints her toenails (that can be so awkward) while you are sitting opposite. She also laughs at your jokes.

i've missed this sort of posts



welcome back and get well soon andy

Andy Roo said:

The money is Spanish and Italian (and therefore borrowed from China) and is running out.

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The money is from 5.5B viewers and worldwide broadcasters. That it is funnelled through a British-owned, Spanish run corporation is immaterial. Dorna could fold tomorrow and a new commercial rights holder would pick up the reins and we (the great unwashed) wouldn't be aware of it.



The only indication when that happened in WSBK was a new font on the TV coverage.

Bunyip said:

Hang in there Andy. You,ve been doing it tough. I hadn,t realised that it was that bad.



Maintain the rage.............. against maladjusted co-inhabitants, the remaining boppers.................and well ,.............just maintain the rage...................





Go, you good thing.



I,ll have to visit you..................after i,ve found Barry in his Watagans hide-out!

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I'm easy, 24 Park Avenue Bray Park (via Murwillumbah). I put it on here once before when someone wanted to fight me. I was only an Internet fight however , I read an absolute pearler on here yesterday, with name calling, glassings, flights, motorcycle races and more action than a James Bond movie.



It was great, I just wanted to send everyone a hot beverage.



Now I'm a cripple I'm just good for a cup of tea and so on.



I'll be back on a bike soon ( been saying that for 14 months though)



Also - I love the ellipsis usage, where is Fred Gassit? .....

Zootalaws said:

The money is from 5.5B viewers and worldwide broadcasters. That it is funnelled through a British-owned, Spanish run corporation is immaterial. Dorna could fold tomorrow and a new commercial rights holder would pick up the reins and we (the great unwashed) wouldn't be aware of it.



The only indication when that happened in WSBK was a new font on the TV coverage.

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Sponsors?



Repsol is not from New Zealand



Fiat is not a legendary Canadian brand



and so on and so forth.

Andy Roo said:

Sponsors?



Repsol is not from New Zealand



Fiat is not a legendary Canadian brand



and so on and so forth.

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Repsol sponsors one MotoGP team. FIAT doesn't sponsor any.



This is the list of MotoGP sponsors: http://www.motogp.com/en/sponsors



Pretty wide spread, geographically. Most of the money the teams get othe rthan from their 'name' sponsor is from the disbursement of funds from Dorna/IRTA.



Repsol contributed US$15M to HRC for the Pedro/Stoner/Dovi season but their usual spend is US$5M. HRC spent €40M last year on the team, Pedrosa and Stoner's wages.

Zootalaws said:

Repsol sponsors one MotoGP team. FIAT doesn't sponsor any.



This is the list of MotoGP sponsors: http://www.motogp.com/en/sponsors



Pretty wide spread, geographically.

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Team sponsors.



Okay - Fiat was synonymous with VR and Yamaha and that is over, the use of the reference to that 4 year partnership is quite important. Fiat didn't get their money back at the end now, did they?



Team and rider sponsors are predominantly European.



Even your list of official sponsors is like throwing a net over western Europe and Japan. You might not catch all the fish, but what's left isn't worth quibbling about.

FedEx, Stanley, DeWalt, Hertz, AlpineStars, Oakley, Monster, Roland...?



But I still don't understand what you are getting at. Sponsorship is based mostly on advertising. Most viewers are in Asia and Europe. Therefore most advertisers are EMEA-based.



You stated "The money is Spanish and Italian (and therefore borrowed from China) and is running out." - but I am afraid I disagree. While there are no doubt some people and companies in Spain and Italy that are doing it tough, they aren't likely to be dropping $5M at a time on sponsoring MotoGP.



It's a pretty wide-spread net you cast - that the money is from China and therefore running out. I have doubts about the veracity of that. To look at the two companies you used - Repsol and FIAT - as examples, both are doing very well, financially. FIAT is making inroads into the US and have the small-diesel market, worldwide, by the throat. What isn't sold with a FIAT badge is sold with any number of European and Japanese makers badge on it. Their profit DOUBLED in 2011. Repsol have taken a hit from the nationalisation of their Argentinian fields, but is a family-owned business that show a net profit increase of 6.5% in 2011 to nearly €2B.



It's easy to throw out generalisations, less easy to sustain the argument when asked to.

To take an opposing position from my rather sweeping generalization, you have taken a stance. This is all well and good but creating a circular argument that now comes back to



[font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Sponsorship is based mostly on advertising. Most viewers are in Asia and Europe[/font]



[font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]is exactly my point. It makes a much better business model to have the peak content between persons most connected, either culturally of linguistically to the sponsors and money. [/font]



[font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]​You have thrown out a lot of words, come back a full circle, jumped out from behind a lexical bush, surprised yourself mostly, and said this is my spot and it was all along. I'm going to take my generalizations which are now yours (it is your spot after all) and I'm off to consider the real position you started at in this exchange, which is;[/font]

[font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]1. that every thing in the world of motogp is cruising along really well financially, and [/font]

[font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]2. sponsors money comes from everywhere and there isn't a bubble in Europe and Japan. [/font]



[font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Maybe I just put a couple of words in your mouth and I'm all sorry BUT in that gigantic run of words that seemed to flow like a steady stream of diarrhoea you didn't say that much. And you never stood still. [/font]



[font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]​The look I have on my face, which is like a dog that has just been shown a card trick isn't because of the amazing retort. [/font]

That was a whole lot of words, none of which sustain the statement you made which was: "[font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]The money is Spanish and Italian (and therefore borrowed from China) and is running out." If you would like to address that statement and sustain it, I would be interested to see the facts, rather than the hyperbole.[/font]



[font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]The only 'stance' I took was to show that the money comes from Dorna selling a package to 5.5B viewers and what the main sponsors of MotoGP are, how much money Repsol contributed to HRC and how profitable your two examples are - whether they are utilising Chinese funding or not is down to you to prove. [/font]



[font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Where you got the rest of it from is bewildering.[/font]



[font="helvetica, arial, sans-serif"]I did enjoy your twisting of words though. Keep at it, you will get it right if you persevere. Although it was never meant to be an argument, merely a pointer to the facts that were at odds with our claim.[/font]

Zootalaws said:

That was a whole lot of words, none of which sustain the statement you made which was: "[font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]The money is Spanish and Italian (and therefore borrowed from China) and is running out." If you would like to address that statement and sustain it, I would be interested to see the facts, rather than the hyperbole.[/font]



[font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]The only 'stance' I took was to show that the money comes from Dorna selling a package to 5.5B viewers and what the main sponsors of MotoGP are, how much money Repsol contributed to HRC and how profitable your two examples are - whether they are utilising Chinese funding or not is down to you to prove. [/font]



[font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Where you got the rest of it from is bewildering.[/font]



[font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]I did enjoy your twisting of words though. Keep at it, you will get it right if you persevere. Although it was never meant to be an argument, merely a pointer to the facts that were at odds with our claim.[/font]

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I can see merit on both sides of the argument, I think the state of the Spanish and Italian economies is a problem for the sport, given the number of races and viewership there, and the chinese could conceivably stop lending money to them , although I haven't heard that dorna's british parent company bridgepoint is in any trouble. Ezy does seem to still be trying to get asian races run to european time though which suggests this is still where the money is, and I think a big italian TV company recently went for wsbk rights rather than motogp which had previously been their choice. I don't really know what the ratings are in general, and valentino rossi not being physically immortal has always been something which would eventually have to be dealt with.



Where I am doubtful about is ezy's belief in the "success" of his moto2 and moto3 formulae. Sure they produce close racing, but don't seem to generate much discussion or interest even among die hard bike racing enthusiasts such as we on this site and the other fan forums. I personally find wss which generally has rather close racing as well more authentic, and can generate little emotional investment in who wins moto2. I do wonder whether how much such interest as there is in moto2 and moto3 relates to the top riders of these series being the prospective future stars of the premier class, which a putative "moto 1" class may not remain.

Zootalaws said:

That was a whole lot of words, none of which sustain the statement you made which was: "[font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]The money is Spanish and Italian (and therefore borrowed from China) and is running out." If you would like to address that statement and sustain it, I would be interested to see the facts, rather than the hyperbole.[/font]



[font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]The only 'stance' I took was to show that the money comes from Dorna selling a package to 5.5B viewers and what the main sponsors of MotoGP are, how much money Repsol contributed to HRC and how profitable your two examples are - whether they are utilising Chinese funding or not is down to you to prove. [/font]



[font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Where you got the rest of it from is bewildering.[/font]



[font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]I did enjoy your twisting of words though. Keep at it, you will get it right if you persevere. Although it was never meant to be an argument, merely a pointer to the facts that were at odds with our claim.[/font]

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Id be interested to see this part explained.

michaelm said:

I can see merit on both sides of the argument, I think the state of the Spanish and Italian economies is a problem for the sport, given the number of races and viewership there, and the chinese could conceivably stop lending money to them , although I haven't heard that dorna's british parent company bridgepoint is in any trouble. Ezy does seem to still be trying to get asian races run to european time though which suggests this is still where the money is, and I think a big italian TV company recently went for wsbk rights rather than motogp which had previously been their choice. I don't really know what the ratings are in general, and valentino rossi not being physically immortal has always been something which would eventually have to be dealt with.



Where I am doubtful about is ezy's belief in the "success" of his moto2 and moto3 formulae. Sure they produce close racing, but don't seem to generate much discussion or interest even among die hard bike racing enthusiasts such as we on this site and the other fan forums. I personally find wss which generally has rather close racing as well more authentic, and can generate little emotional investment in who wins moto2. I do wonder whether how much such interest as there is in moto2 and moto3 relates to the top riders of these series being the prospective future stars of the premier class, which a putative "moto 1" class may not remain.

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Full grids,close racing,sponsers, moto2 breaking 500cc lap times a better platform to moto gp the list goes on,just because its not being talked about dosnt mean its not a success in fact it not being moaned about answers your question.

Boy that's wordy.



What happened to Fiat (who doubled their profit recently)



Did they double their sponsorship of motogp?



Or did they pull out?

thedeal said:

Full grids,close racing,sponsers, moto2 breaking 500cc lap times a better platform to moto gp the list goes on,just because its not being talked about dosnt mean its not a success in fact it not being moaned about answers your question.

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But ............... what are the viewership figures for these lower classes?



Yes, your point may have some validity in that the racing may be closer etc, but if viewers do not watch these classes on a large scale, then sponsorship and subsequent revenues for these classes and the larger sport will diminish.



Your comment regarding 'lack of moaning' is also to a degree untrue as many many forums complain about Moto2/3 not being the same as MotoGP (yes, certainly many are positively orgasmic at the racing itself).



A good measure is the general forum commentary where generally far more comments appear regarding MotoGP than will appear about MGP2/3 and that should be worrying where these are the 'future of the sport' as is often claimed

Gaz said:

A good measure is the general forum commentary where generally far more comments appear regarding MotoGP than will appear about MGP2/3 and that should be worrying where these are the 'future of the sport' as is often claimed

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Why?



I've been a fan of NHL hockey since I could walk. Does that mean I have to be a fan of AHL/CHL/OHL hockey? I have a passable knowledge of minor league hockey as it relates to the next phenom and will watch minor league playoffs but a true fan, not so much.



Same with 125/250 Moto3/2... passable knowledge.



Minor leagues are minor leagues for a reason.

Mick D said:

Why?



I've been a fan of NHL hockey since I could walk. Does that mean I have to be a fan of AHL/CHL/OHL hockey? I have a passable knowledge of minor league hockey as it relates to the next phenom and will watch minor league playoffs but a true fan, not so much.



Same with 125/250 Moto3/2... passable knowledge.



Minor leagues are minor leagues for a reason.

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Good luck to "the deal" if he likes spec racing, and good luck to dorna if they have identified the way of the future. It is simply not something I am personally interested in.



My point, which is only my opinion and hence quite possibly wrong, is that moto2 may be thriving because it is the feeder class to motogp, a continuation of what has been the premier bike racing series in the world for 5 decades. There are myriad spec racing series in the world with incredibly close racing which have little or no following. That moto2 is attracting copious sponsorship and participants is a good point, but again may reflect that it is an affordable way to have something to do with the major league.

thedeal said:

Full grids,close racing,sponsers, moto2 breaking 500cc lap times a better platform to moto gp the list goes on,just because its not being talked about dosnt mean its not a success in fact it not being moaned about answers your question.

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It sounds like you are younger than me, and if so I give you the advantage, because all things considered I would rather be younger over most other things.



I gave my opinion which may well be wrong, and you have given yours, to which you are absolutely entitled. I don't like spec racing racing series, if you do good luck to you, and good luck to dorna if they have identifed the way of the future, it is just not a future in which I personally am particularly interested.



Btw they may be breaking 500 lap records but they are not breaking or even matching wss times as far as I know, but that will quite possibly come with time. The advent of marc marquez next year may change things, but currently moto2 doesn't look all that good an introduction to the premier class either, although bradl has been considerably more impressive than the world champion prior to him, tony elias, was last year. All the more reason to change the motogp premier class to moto 1, I guess.