Stoner Ruining the Sport

MotoGP Forum

Help Support MotoGP Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Why?



I've been a fan of NHL hockey since I could walk. Does that mean I have to be a fan of AHL/CHL/OHL hockey? I have a passable knowledge of minor league hockey as it relates to the next phenom and will watch minor league playoffs but a true fan, not so much.



Same with 125/250 Moto3/2... passable knowledge.



Minor leagues are minor leagues for a reason.



Mick, in short you may well have misunderstood the comments but essentially for me, I often read that Moto2/3 is the 'way to go for MotoGP' and the point I tried to make was that if Moto2/3 is the future, than currently the future produces less spectators that the 'alleged' inferior product that needs tweaking. Why is that?



Nowhere do I assert or insinuate that because you like NHL (which is the top league I believe - not a hockey fan) than you should like the lesser leagues as like you say, these lesser leagues are there for a reason. But, if the lesser league is more competitive for 'a reason', does this mean that the NHL should follow suit and implement these same 'reasons' when less people and sponsors follow these same 'lesser leagues'
 
Okay, Germany is the only EU country to actually have a balance of trade surplus with China and the EU as a whole falls out at a rate of roughly 140 billion a year.



Specific countries such as Italy (20 billion per annum) and Spain (12 billion per annum) are falling into debt (rough figures rounded to nearest billion) cited from Eurostat news release 135/2012. That's the deal (no play on words honest)



Whilst the term borrowing is used I apply is broad to debt and any other usury relationship between those countries and China. In this sense I am utterly correct. I shouldn't use the word usury but I think it applies in regard to Chinas recalcitrant approach to market derived exchange rates and so on.



Whilst individual companies in Spain and Italy are going okay there is this thing called a European debt crisis. There is another place in Europe where olives come from (called Greece) and they are having a time of it.



Italy and Spain are not faring so well either and the whole countries are under the pump (do I need a citation, honestly just read a newspaper).



There also lots of stories in previous years about shrinking fields in Motogp, cost cutting, the introduction of CRT to counter this, rumours of spec racing Oh God how mundane... (again, knock yourself out, do your own research).



I think the structure of Dorna is irrelevant, (its a English Spanish omelette or something) but the teams rely on sponsorship and without breaking into a team by team discussion I'll just pull a few random names from this and previous years to assist


  • []Telefonica (Spain)

    []Fiat (Italian)

    []Repsol (Spain)

    []Rizla (French)

    []Tech 3 French

    []Aspar (Spain)

    []Marlboro (Swiss or something)

    []Pramac (Italy)

    []Red Bull (Austria)

I threw red bull in because sometimes people mix up Austria and Australia, and they ring Tourist Information offices in Brisbane and want to go to where the sound of music was made and weird stuff like that.



The point is that only Swann Insurance from Australia puts any money in (and less than 1 million) for Casey Stoner. Nearly all of the money is European and Japanese. While the sport is doing it tough they don't want to alienate their key sponsorship prospects, audience etc with an antipodean champion whilst there is an attractive competing series.



This is just my opinion, a throw away line but each and every premise on which this is based contains sufficient fact not to be a parabola or a hyperbole or whatever.
 
Btw they may be breaking 500 lap records but they are not breaking or even matching wss times as far as I know



Last two rounds...



Aragon:

WSS QP 2m02.624s

Moto2 QP 1m54.343



Misano

WSS QP 1m 38.987

Moto2 QP 1m 38.242
 
I can see merit on both sides of the argument, I think the state of the Spanish and Italian economies is a problem for the sport, given the number of races and viewership there, and the chinese could conceivably stop lending money to them , although I haven't heard that dorna's british parent company bridgepoint is in any trouble. Ezy does seem to still be trying to get asian races run to european time though which suggests this is still where the money is, and I think a big italian TV company recently went for wsbk rights rather than motogp which had previously been their choice. I don't really know what the ratings are in general, and valentino rossi not being physically immortal has always been something which would eventually have to be dealt with.





There's no doubt the Iberian economy is affecting the gate take - Portimao was selling tickets for €20, weren't they?



But as most of the money in MotoGP is from TV revenues, and that is up 500M from 2011, I don't know whether their economy is affecting things that much.



Obviously the smaller teams and Moto2/3 will feel the pinch, having most of the field coming from Italy and Spain, but there has always been issues with individual sponsorship for lesser riders, whatever their origins.



There is a waiting list of tens of tracks worldwide waiting for their chance to run a round of MotoGP. If we lost a couple of Spanish rounds, it wouldn't be the end of the world.
 
They reckon there was only 42,000 at Aragon on Sunday. The place looked deserted on TV.
 
What happened to Fiat (who doubled their profit recently)



Did they double their sponsorship of motogp?



FIAT were personal sponsors of Rossi, through his relationship with the boss of FIAT. Why they chose to not continue the relationship when he moved to Ducati isn't something I am privy to - do you have an insight?



Cleaving to FIAT as the yardstick to bolster your argument that the Spanish and Italian economies are beholden to China isn't working...
 
But as most of the money in MotoGP is from TV revenues, and that is up 500M from 2011, I don't know whether their economy is affecting things that much.

If so I am glad. Perhaps ezy doesn't need to fix it then.
 
Last two rounds...



Aragon:

WSS QP 2m02.624s

Moto2 QP 1m54.343



Misano

WSS QP 1m 38.987

Moto2 QP 1m 38.242

Proves I don't watch much moto2 I guess.



The lap record for misano for WSS is 1m 38.868 (crutchlow 2009) against marquez's fastest lap this year in moto2 of 1m 38.453, so still not much in it considering the WSS bikes are production based with limited changes allowed and not racing (or qualifying) on slicks.



Lap record for aragon also 9 seconds different for wsbk and motogp, which is not typical, so I am not sure they even run the same lap distance or circuit configuration.
 
Ignoring the volumes of evidence and a publicly discussed front page stealing European Economic crisis (where Italy owes 120.1% of GDP (2 trillion) - A huge number and Spain 1.3 trillion or something is interesting.



You must be a politician, a manager or a lawyer.



Everyone has said there is a problem, and you said there isn't, and your covering a previously gloomy situation in flowery descriptives.



Why didn't the incredibly successful profit tripling fiat company stay? Valentino is still there?



Could have just as easy said Rizla and Suzuki (do you need another list?)
 
Couple things to clarify for the givers of figures as facts without knowing the FACTS.



Weekend attendance for Motorland Aragon was 82 thousand and change, if I remember reading correctly. May have been 81, definitely over 80. And most of that attendance was on Sunday, as Saturday was .... weather and not many people went. Saturdays stand images were deserted compared to Sunday.



Second thing, WSBK and GP share the same track, but in Motorland there are a few variants. GP and SBK race on different layouts. At the end of the back straight, SBK has a sharp left not like big curve at the end we saw this weekend.
 
To be fair, it popped up on the tv screen when I was watching the race that it was something between 40,000 and 45,000 people who were there yesterday, nothing like 80,000. That is very different to your figure, but from watching on tv we could hardly count them could we?
<
You do tend to go with the graphic and assume it's accurate don't you?
 
most venues count a multi day attendance Day 1+2+3.



I've seen figures for Phillip Island (and been there) that defy belief.
 
Weekend attendance is just that, WEEKEND attendance. Speaking with people that were there on Saturday, they told me that the stands were very empty on Saturday. On Sunday when I was there, the stand I was at, # 5, was full. The stand across from us had a few "bald spots" but giving the previous days weather it is not surprising.
 
Couple things to clarify for the givers of figures as facts without knowing the FACTS.



Weekend attendance for Motorland Aragon was 82 thousand and change, if I remember reading correctly. May have been 81, definitely over 80. And most of that attendance was on Sunday, as Saturday was .... weather and not many people went. Saturdays stand images were deserted compared to Sunday.



Second thing, WSBK and GP share the same track, but in Motorland there are a few variants. GP and SBK race on different layouts. At the end of the back straight, SBK has a sharp left not like big curve at the end we saw this weekend.



Yep, where Rossi ran off and continued around and came back on is the WSBK configuration. They run a longer straight that brakes into a slow hairpin, then a chicane, whereas GP has a long, much higher speed sweeper at the end of the back straight
 
Couple things to clarify for the givers of figures as facts without knowing the FACTS.



Weekend attendance for Motorland Aragon was 82 thousand and change, if I remember reading correctly. May have been 81, definitely over 80. And most of that attendance was on Sunday, as Saturday was .... weather and not many people went. Saturdays stand images were deserted compared to Sunday.



Second thing, WSBK and GP share the same track, but in Motorland there are a few variants. GP and SBK race on different layouts. At the end of the back straight, SBK has a sharp left not like big curve at the end we saw this weekend.

Thanks. I like the Aragon track (on TV anyway) and would like to see it keep going.
 
It sounds like you are younger than me, and if so I give you the advantage, because all things considered I would rather be younger over most other things.



I gave my opinion which may well be wrong, and you have given yours, to which you are absolutely entitled. I don't like spec racing racing series, if you do good luck to you, and good luck to dorna if they have identifed the way of the future, it is just not a future in which I personally am particularly interested.



Btw they may be breaking 500 lap records but they are not breaking or even matching wss times as far as I know, but that will quite possibly come with time. The advent of marc marquez next year may change things, but currently moto2 doesn't look all that good an introduction to the premier class either, although bradl has been considerably more impressive than the world champion prior to him, tony elias, was last year. All the more reason to change the motogp premier class to moto 1, I guess.



I dont know how old you are but i am 50 and that may or not be an advantage,weather we like spec racing or not it is here and we have to deal with it,come to think of it 350lc (keys from a hat) racing was some of the closest and most exiting ever.Times have moved on and Dorna want and have got a pakage of feeder classes to the premier class,it is only a spec engine and the chassis guys are having fun and i think its working,the last years of 250s were the Aprillia cup anyway so i think a spec engine and a bespoke chassis is an improvement on different levels of the same bike depending on your finance or passport.
 
It sounds like you are younger than me, and if so I give you the advantage, because all things considered I would rather be younger over most other things.



I gave my opinion which may well be wrong, and you have given yours, to which you are absolutely entitled. I don't like spec racing racing series, if you do good luck to you, and good luck to dorna if they have identifed the way of the future, it is just not a future in which I personally am particularly interested.



Btw they may be breaking 500 lap records but they are not breaking or even matching wss times as far as I know, but that will quite possibly come with time. The advent of marc marquez next year may change things, but currently moto2 doesn't look all that good an introduction to the premier class either, although bradl has been considerably more impressive than the world champion prior to him, tony elias, was last year. All the more reason to change the motogp premier class to moto 1, I guess.



That very dangerous Turkish world ss champion didnt cut it in Moto2 and Gino Rea is doing no better and both blaming bikes or is Moto2 a cut above Wss?
 
I dont know how old you are but i am 50 and that may or not be an advantage,weather we like spec racing or not it is here and we have to deal with it,come to think of it 350lc (keys from a hat) racing was some of the closest and most exiting ever.Times have moved on and Dorna want and have got a pakage of feeder classes to the premier class,it is only a spec engine and the chassis guys are having fun and i think its working,the last years of 250s were the Aprillia cup anyway so i think a spec engine and a bespoke chassis is an improvement on different levels of the same bike depending on your finance or passport.

So you are another cranky old ....... like me and we disagree philosophically about spec racing which is fine. Agree about 250 being an aprilia cup latterly which is one reason dorna went to moto 2. It did produce all 4 current "aliens" though.
 
That very dangerous Turkish world ss champion didnt cut it in Moto2 and Gino Rea is doing no better and both blaming bikes or is Moto2 a cut above Wss?

My point was that the WSS bikes are heavily production based and not racing on slicks but still as fast (I was incorrect, they are only nearly as fast) as the moto2 bikes; that in addition the riders are not as good ( it being a precursor only to wsbk, not motogp) rather adds to this point I would have thought. Sofoglu should have been locked up after aragon I agree; I said so on here in fact, see the relevant race thread on the WSBK forum.
 

Recent Discussions

Recent Discussions

Back
Top