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Stoner very outspoken about recent MotoGP issues

Pigeon said:
Former 500cc World Champion Wayne Gardner will be offering his GP insights and opinions on a regular basis to cyclenews.com readers and we're happy to have him. For even more from the Wollongong Wonder, visit his website at www.waynegardnerapproved.com.au.



DUTCH DISAPPOINTMENT

Normally one of the highlights of the GP calendar, I noticed something very different about this year's Dutch TT. Obviously, the track is nothing like it used to be when I raced there in the mid-80s. Thanks to considerable modifications over the years, it's become a pale, soulless version of its former self. But with this having been the case for quite a while now, my impressions from the weekend are based on much more than that. For starters, there was the crowd. I remember the days when 200,000 spectators packed into the circuit on race day alone. On the weekend there was less than 100,000. The aura and prestige of the event also seems to have deteriorated. The Dutch TT was always one of those races that you looked forward to, and to win it was something really, really special. Now it just seems like another race.



Then there was the contest itself - a drawn-out affair that was a far cry from the nose-to-tail action you'd normally expect from a traditional Dutch TT. In saying all that, you can't escape the fact that Lorenzo was brilliant. He's really come into his own and is a step above everyone else. He's realized he can do it and that he doesn't have to live in Rossi's shadow anymore. Yet again, Pedrosa was good, but not good enough, while over at Ducati, I noticed that Casey Stoner was struggling to stay with the leaders, having to use a lot more lean angle compared to the others. To me, that again backs up what I've said previously - that there's a basic geometry and engine placement issue with that bike. Despite what I keep reading in magazines, it's not just about the front forks.



RING THE ALARM BELLS

MotoGP is in real trouble. At last weekend's Dutch TT there were just 15 bikes on the grid. Two of those were ridden by over-the-hill test riders that no one could care less about watching, while the two dismal Suzukis did little more than make up the low numbers at the back of the grid. If Suzuki were to follow Kawasaki out the back door - surely a strong possibility considering their appalling results - then next year's grid would be reduced even further. In fact, there would be more points available than there would be riders to claim them.



Alarmingly, I have heard that Dorna is having to fund some of the teams to keep them there. What a disaster. The 800cc formula itself is also delivering the most boring races of all the GP classes. Thanks to Dorna's disastrous regulation changes over the past few years, MotoGP bikes have become harder to ride and too expensive for manufacturers and teams to develop and run. Up until about a month ago the whole show had been glued together by the Rossi phenomenon, which distracted everyone from the problem. Now there's no escaping it.



Emergency action is required to prevent MotoGP becoming a thing of the past. I've heard some calling for the 2012 regulation changes to be brought forward for next year, but could the factories be ready in time? It's doubtful. There's talk of even allowing hybrid bikes on the grid as an interim solution for 2011, but even that will prove very difficult with the short lead time remaining until the start of next season. Short-term, I think the only thing that can save MotoGP is if Rossi comes back and rides for Ducati.



For the rest of Wayne's commentary from the Dutch Grand Prix, visit www.waynegardnerapproved.com.au.
Click to expand...



Great article matey.
<
 
Pigeon said:
RING THE ALARM BELLS

MotoGP is in real trouble. At last weekend's Dutch TT there were just 15 bikes on the grid. Two of those were ridden by over-the-hill test riders that no one could care less about watching, while the two dismal Suzukis did little more than make up the low numbers at the back of the grid. If Suzuki were to follow Kawasaki out the back door - surely a strong possibility considering their appalling results - then next year's grid would be reduced even further. In fact, there would be more points available than there would be riders to claim them.



Alarmingly, I have heard that Dorna is having to fund some of the teams to keep them there. What a disaster. The 800cc formula itself is also delivering the most boring races of all the GP classes. Thanks to Dorna's disastrous regulation changes over the past few years, MotoGP bikes have become harder to ride and too expensive for manufacturers and teams to develop and run. Up until about a month ago the whole show had been glued together by the Rossi phenomenon, which distracted everyone from the problem. Now there's no escaping it.



Emergency action is required to prevent MotoGP becoming a thing of the past. I've heard some calling for the 2012 regulation changes to be brought forward for next year, but could the factories be ready in time? It's doubtful. There's talk of even allowing hybrid bikes on the grid as an interim solution for 2011, but even that will prove very difficult with the short lead time remaining until the start of next season. Short-term, I think the only thing that can save MotoGP is if Rossi comes back and rides for Ducati.



For the rest of Wayne's commentary from the Dutch Grand Prix, visit www.waynegardnerapproved.com.au.
Click to expand...



Dorna have been subsidising teams since the early MotoGP years. That's hardly news.



As for '11, Dorna would love to introduce the new regs for then, and have a hybrid class, but Ezpeleta knows that the factories won't have it. They're afraid that they'll get beaten by the CRT bikes, so they're waiting until '12, and hoping that Rossi on a Ducati will make everyone forget there are just 17 bikes on the grid. Again.
 
Whats costing the teams is Dorna screwing with the rules and regs all the time.



This costs the teams million of dollars try to keep up with Dornas dodgy rule changes.



Maybe Dorna should sit back and take a good long hard look at themselves and see the effect they are having on the sport.



Cheers



Gecko Hunter
 
Gecko Hunter said:
Whats costing the teams is Dorna screwing with the rules and regs all the time.



This costs the teams million of dollars try to keep up with Dornas dodgy rule changes.



Maybe Dorna should sit back and take a good long hard look at themselves and see the effect they are having on the sport.



Cheers



Gecko Hunter
Click to expand...



It's not Dorna. It's the manufacturers. And Dorna are working on containing the MSMA. News later this week.
 
this is such ........! if assen had been another barn burnin weekend of racing, ala silverstone, none of you cry baby
<
alarmists would be spouting any of the ....! gp's ain't gonna dissapear anytime soon. they are no more in trouble now then they were at the end of the 90's when the prediction was that wsbk was gonna soon be the top series. granprix or motogp now will always be the pinnacle of the sport, just ask any racer worth his salt were they want to race, like ben's been sayin.
<
 
Pigeon said:
Former 500cc World Champion Wayne Gardner will be offering his GP insights and opinions on a regular basis to cyclenews.com readers and we're happy to have him. For even more from the Wollongong Wonder, visit his website at www.waynegardnerapproved.com.au.



DUTCH DISAPPOINTMENT

Normally one of the highlights of the GP calendar, I noticed something very different about this year's Dutch TT. Obviously, the track is nothing like it used to be when I raced there in the mid-80s. Thanks to considerable modifications over the years, it's become a pale, soulless version of its former self. But with this having been the case for quite a while now, my impressions from the weekend are based on much more than that. For starters, there was the crowd. I remember the days when 200,000 spectators packed into the circuit on race day alone. On the weekend there was less than 100,000. The aura and prestige of the event also seems to have deteriorated. The Dutch TT was always one of those races that you looked forward to, and to win it was something really, really special. Now it just seems like another race.



Then there was the contest itself - a drawn-out affair that was a far cry from the nose-to-tail action you'd normally expect from a traditional Dutch TT. In saying all that, you can't escape the fact that Lorenzo was brilliant. He's really come into his own and is a step above everyone else. He's realized he can do it and that he doesn't have to live in Rossi's shadow anymore. Yet again, Pedrosa was good, but not good enough, while over at Ducati, I noticed that Casey Stoner was struggling to stay with the leaders, having to use a lot more lean angle compared to the others. To me, that again backs up what I've said previously - that there's a basic geometry and engine placement issue with that bike. Despite what I keep reading in magazines, it's not just about the front forks.



RING THE ALARM BELLS

MotoGP is in real trouble. At last weekend's Dutch TT there were just 15 bikes on the grid. Two of those were ridden by over-the-hill test riders that no one could care less about watching, while the two dismal Suzukis did little more than make up the low numbers at the back of the grid. If Suzuki were to follow Kawasaki out the back door - surely a strong possibility considering their appalling results - then next year's grid would be reduced even further. In fact, there would be more points available than there would be riders to claim them.



Alarmingly, I have heard that Dorna is having to fund some of the teams to keep them there. What a disaster. The 800cc formula itself is also delivering the most boring races of all the GP classes. Thanks to Dorna's disastrous regulation changes over the past few years, MotoGP bikes have become harder to ride and too expensive for manufacturers and teams to develop and run. Up until about a month ago the whole show had been glued together by the Rossi phenomenon, which distracted everyone from the problem. Now there's no escaping it.



Emergency action is required to prevent MotoGP becoming a thing of the past. I've heard some calling for the 2012 regulation changes to be brought forward for next year, but could the factories be ready in time? It's doubtful. There's talk of even allowing hybrid bikes on the grid as an interim solution for 2011, but even that will prove very difficult with the short lead time remaining until the start of next season. Short-term, I think the only thing that can save MotoGP is if Rossi comes back and rides for Ducati.



For the rest of Wayne's commentary from the Dutch Grand Prix, visit www.waynegardnerapproved.com.au.
Click to expand...



Thanks Pigeon for this nice article,

I thought also Assen with it's 80 years of history has to be more especial to motogp than what it is, after all that's the only gp which has always been on the calendar, from 1925 (exept between 1940-1945)
 
You beat me to it, Pigeon.



Cry baby alarmists?



Though Wayne's analysis has a few flaws (only 1 test rider at Assen) the general idea is exactly right in regards to the sport. I wish he weren't blaming Dorna, that's what I did back in 2007 before I learned in 2008 that Dorna was the lone holdout against the 800s (sorry, Carmelo), but his remarks about how Rossi allow us to conveniently gloss over the problem is correct, imo. His observations about Casey's bike are interesting, too. Particularly the engine placement bit, b/c a 90-degree V-4 isn't exactly the most efficient use of space. I wonder if Ducati's obsession with the L-config will cause them problems in the future. They've already ditched twin pulse, and the steel trellis frame. I wonder if the 90-degree config is next on the chopping block.



I'm kinda with Gardener. I don't see any way out of this by next year without drastic measures. Rossi to Ducati could probably sustain the sport.



People are probably sick of hearing it, but it makes me fell better. The best way to sort things by 2011 is 1000cc rev-limited to 15,000rpm or 16,000rpm @ 24L of fuel. No need to redesign the engines b/c the 990s are legal and the 2-3hp they lack compared to a 1000cc engine means nothing. Retool the factory to reproduce the 990s and then build a new chassis around the bike to handle what is known about the B-stones. Raise minimum weight to 155kg b/c that's what the old 990s were anyway.



[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpuJJ6PKovU[/media]



<
I feel so much better now.
 
I Just want to see Bums on seats and not one or two injuries that then Make THE World Championship Motor Cycle Racing look a Farce
<
 
frosty58 said:
this is such ........! if assen had been another barn burnin weekend of racing, ala silverstone, none of you cry baby
<
alarmists would be spouting any of the ....! gp's ain't gonna dissapear anytime soon. they are no more in trouble now then they were at the end of the 90's when the prediction was that wsbk was gonna soon be the top series. granprix or motogp now will always be the pinnacle of the sport, just ask any racer worth his salt were they want to race, like ben's been sayin.
<
Click to expand...



Sorry Frosty my opinion would'nt have change even if Bautista had come from the back and flogged the entire field.

15 bikes on the grid isn't enough, considering MotoGP is suppose to be the best of the best of the best of the bes...............(you get the picture).



I feel that to many changes over relatively shot periods of time make it hard for the manufacturers.



Cheers



Gecko Hunter
 
Pigeon said:
I Just want to see Bums on seats and not one or two injuries that then Make THE World Championship Motor Cycle Racing look a Farce
<
Click to expand...



Sounds like everyone wants a more robust sport but the MSMA. They have got many ways to increase grid sizes, but they are paranoid about bore limits and rev limits and such b/c it makes it too easy for engine builders to make power and meet reliability rules. I'm just taking a guess, but I'm assuming the MSMA are stalling while they think of some ridiculous formula that will make the sport cheaper and easier while ensuring the MSMA will maintain a competitive advantage. Stalling is the only thing that will happen as long as the MSMA are in the drivers seat. The are faced with two equally bad situations 1. more manufacturers and a new formula 2. collapse of the sport.



You know what pisses me off? These companies, Honda in particular, claim to be engineering companies who want to solve problems and find new engineering challenges, yet, the possibility of being pushed by a company outside of the MSMA make them pucker. They are stuck in arrested development b/c they refuse competition from anyone outside of their club. I understand the F1 has probably given them a distrust of European manufacturers, that and the history of GPs and the 4-cylinder rule from the 1960s, but they've got to get real. Whatever it is that they are doing is just as bad for the sport and for Japanese participation as any European hegemony.



The sport has got to open up. The end. Stoner is right even though it's difficult to listen to him whinge.
 
Gecko Hunter said:
Sorry Frosty my opinion would'nt have change even if Bautista had come from the back and flogged the entire field.

15 bikes on the grid isn't enough, considering MotoGP is suppose to be the best of the best of the best of the bes...............(you get the picture).



I feel that to many changes over relatively shot periods of time make it hard for the manufacturers.



Cheers



Gecko Hunter
Click to expand...



I think that from what Kropotkin says and also from other reports over the years the rules that we are lumped with come from the MSMA which is the manufacturers. Therefore it is the manufacturers that are ruining the spectacle in an effort to prevent new challenges from the likes of BMW, Aprilia etc. Making it so difficult and so expensive prevents the other manufacturers from potentially damaging their brand by coming into the sport and not being competitive. The engine rules and reduced testing are just an extension of that because how can you develop if you can't test and can't replace engines. We see on motomatters today details on engine useage for all the teams. If you can only do one update on your engines through a season or two by the looks of it for Honda then how can a BMW come in and develop? It would take them 3 or 4 seasons to just catch up and then the MSMA go and change the rules again.



The initiating problem in this saga as I see it is Dorna's lack of balls and lack of an idea on how to make the formula a success. Infront showed balls in WSBK and said play our way or there is the door to the manufacturers. The manufacturers walked but some strong private teams were there to carry on and the punter didn't even notice they weren't factory teams. Now the factories are all coming back and new ones have joined and their series is all the stronger for it.



If Dorna don't grow a pair and take back control of the sport then we the fans will continue to whinge on forums how the show could be so much better blah blah blah. I think one sign of hope is Moto2. I think Dorna have had a win with this formula and should be taking some confidence from it because they are no longer in a weak position. If Honda doesn't play ball then I think there would be a number of manufacturers who would gladly step in a take their place.



Although not ideal I would be ok with a Moto1 formula that allowed Dorna to take back control of the sport and allow private teams to develop. And then in the future remove the control engine and allow a range of engine suppliers to re-enter the sport as 'engine suppliers'.



Step further into the future as we do away with the internal combustion engine, if the formula is chassis builders end engine suppliers combining then it would not be a stretch to start inserting electric, hydrogen or what ever emerges into the chassis developed by the teams. This sort of formula would potential future proof itself to accommodate emerging technologies.
 
I happen to agree with most of what moaner is saying, however the king ..... shouldn't ..... about bitching......for those with alzeimers do we need to remind you?



Gardner's points are also valid, it's not doomsday but the gradual decline in interest needs to be addressed
 
frosty58 said:
this is such ........! if assen had been another barn burnin weekend of racing, ala silverstone, none of you cry baby
<
alarmists would be spouting any of the ....! gp's ain't gonna dissapear anytime soon. they are no more in trouble now then they were at the end of the 90's when the prediction was that wsbk was gonna soon be the top series. granprix or motogp now will always be the pinnacle of the sport, just ask any racer worth his salt were they want to race, like ben's been sayin.
<
Click to expand...



Have to agree.



Look at the past few years, WSBK actually seems to be fading again to us here in Aust.



MGP is the pinacle. The troubole is many don't see that unless there rider is No. 1. And this year we seem to have a new No.1 so I guess his fans will come to the fore as other riders don't get their "fix" each week.
 

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