Joined Aug 2007
11K Posts | 3K+
Pomona NY
Yes I'm blind - so will you please help me with my feeble vision - by dredging up an actual sample of this? Pretty please.!
Yes I'm blind - so will you please help me with my feeble vision - by dredging up an actual sample of this? Pretty please.!
Joined Mar 2011
319 Posts | 0+
London
You're right, Stoner is older and should be more mature than that.
Try telling a Moto2 rider that they're just riding hopped supersport bikes. It means the world to them...and it can potentially open up the gates to MotoGP....
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
U sir, do not post here enuf!
Man, u totally hit the nail on the head with ur take on the apology. Stoner, being smart, did not bite. So now the Boppers all up in arms over Stoner's witty response. Haha, calculation failed and Stoner prevailed.
125 riders are learning the trade and appreciate that they make mistakes themselves.
Rossi isn't. It is precisely because he is a 9 times world champion and knows exactly what he is doing that this was reckless. He obviously didn't deliberately aim to take stoner out, not least because he could not predict the effects on himself, but he clearly didn't care whether he did take him out (as in the corkscrew and gibernau incidents); stoner being taken out is of advantage to him tactically if as you say he is going to have a much improved bike post estoril. In the live feed on australian TV (nick harris et al, not australian commentators) it was called live as rossi attempting a pass from way too far back ; I see he has now revised history and is saying he wasn't attempting a pass , in the knowledge that he cannot justify it as an attempted pass.
I presume all are aware that he had time to think about this, and used a mick doohan line, which mick said to criville in the honda pits with his helmet off.
Btw, lets stop paying lip service to all this goat stuff. The real greatest rider of the last 25 years is mick doohan, since on the issue of character apart from anything else rossi doesn't qualify ; mick was harder than rossi ever was or will ever be , but not dirty. He also won all of his 5 titles on a real bike, as opposed to rossi's half a title given that the 500 title he won was on a latter -day sanitised version of the real thing.
dont really have enough time to read what has been said......but i'm very disappointed that this incident happened.
Rossi made the mistake and knows it...stoner was pissed and had every right to be.
Worst thing is that if they both didnt crash...we could have seen an even better race than we saw today. Gotta say it was refreshing to see rossi up there for a bit with them.
Rossi made the mistake and knows it...stoner was pissed and had every right to be.
Worst thing is that if they both didnt crash...we could have seen an even better race than we saw today. Gotta say it was refreshing to see rossi up there for a bit with them.
I completely agree...doing it so every1 can see him apologize has it lose some of its sincerity, but it was good for the fans!
Being a rossi fan, i was annoyed when casey said that. But it was a good response to say the least, and rossi deserved it
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
May I quote the commentators: "Rossi is in the mood. Very late, and he's taken down Stoner, that silly Valentino Rossi attack from a long way back, and he's taken out Casey Stoner, this one's gonna rumble and rumble on afterwards, because that was from a long way back, down he went, and he cleared Stoner out of the way! Massive for the championship." (Gavin Emmett)
"Oh this is gonna go on for the next 4 weeks. Stoner says; come on, give me a hand [referring to Stoner's gesturing to the marshals for help] Rossis got back on the track. He was so so far back, it wasn't a great move by Valentino Rossi. " (Nick Haris)
Then Gavin Emmett goes on to say the front of the Ducati had taken Stoner out last year, and this year again it took him out. he also mentions that the Marshals looked not to help Stoner.
Mike, I don't buy that this was a mere racing incident. Its simply the MO of Rossi racing, what they call fearless, is really reckless. And why not, he's always been congratulated when he's put others in danger. He almost took out the top three riders last race, he almost crashed Stoner at Laguna 08, and now its happened. Finally the luck & skill of others to avoid disaster at the hands of Valentino was unavoidable. This was NOT a case of pushing to hard, this was a case of Rossi being Rossi, and not giving a damn. He demonstrated his contempt for Lorenzo on the track last year, and I'm sure he didn't think twice about passing safely today. In fact, I'll go one step further, and say he intended to make a point to buzz Stoner today, but like Stoner correctly said, his reckless ambition blinded him. But the laws of physics even apply to those with a God complex.
I don't quite understand all the hate on the apology. Rossi IMMEDIATELY got off the bike and walked straight over to find Stoner. It seems possibly he played it up but to assume that he "kept his helmet on" or "brought cameras" is equally if not less likely than if he actually wanted to just go say sorry as soon as he could. Especially considering that after Qatar he pretty much hobbled off to a chair looking to rest his arm.
Regarding the crash, it seems likely that he knew he would only get slower as the race went on and he wanted to get out in front with the times he had as soon as possible. I think to be a great racer there are a lot of statistics involved and often times you have to be in that window were something can go wrong to maximize your value in that race. I think someone who races to never crash by not taking any risks will never be a winner.
I think Stoner had a right to be mad. It was clearly Rossi's fault but it wasn't in his best interest either so obviously he didn't do it on purpose or anything. Seems like a pretty crappy situation all around and it was just dumb luck that Rossi got the best of it.
Regarding the crash, it seems likely that he knew he would only get slower as the race went on and he wanted to get out in front with the times he had as soon as possible. I think to be a great racer there are a lot of statistics involved and often times you have to be in that window were something can go wrong to maximize your value in that race. I think someone who races to never crash by not taking any risks will never be a winner.
I think Stoner had a right to be mad. It was clearly Rossi's fault but it wasn't in his best interest either so obviously he didn't do it on purpose or anything. Seems like a pretty crappy situation all around and it was just dumb luck that Rossi got the best of it.
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
This is what a Rossi fan sounds like.
Ngads, what's up dude? How's school and all?
Its been a tough day being a Rossi fan today. But its been horrible for the Boppers.
If it rains at more races, I expect Rossi to be running near the podium. I had said before, he's got nothing to lose (I just didn't think it would be this dramatic).
Joined May 2008
3K Posts | 79+
Southern Aridzona - Hell's doorstep.
[font="arial, verdana, tahoma, sans-serif"]LOL! There are too damn many threads to keep up on! [/font][font="arial, verdana, tahoma, sans-serif"]Please forgive my crosspost from Rog's Troll-o-Thon thread. Let me give the horse one more whack - I think I saw it twitch! [/font]
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[font="arial, verdana, tahoma, sans-serif"]For 'proper' flow, this should be read before Postiez's preceeding post. [/font]
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Stoner (rightly, IMO) questioned Rossi's ability. I'm glad I'm not the only one to interpret Rossi's answer and subsequent pandering to the Italian Media as WAAAY-Over-the-Top Arrogance. I truly believe the guy has started to believe the perpetual hype about how awesome he is.
As for the actual 'apology,' I believe that being SEEN apologizing to Casey was, for Rossi, FAR more important than actually feeling or expressing remorse. As Kesh (I think) pointed out, if he wanted to come across as sincere, he'd have left the cameras and helmet behind, and snuck in the back door for an eye-to-eye "I'm truly sorry. I ...... up." Instead we got the typical arm waving body language that just screams, "I'm playing to the camera." If I were Stoner, I'd be pissed too. IMO, no apology would be better than the staged-for-the-media ........ Rossi subjected him to. The sarcasm and anger are, from my POV, entirely understandable.
So, IS Rossi truly sorry for screwing someone else's race?
If forced to judge based on the Repsol scene and subsequent Italian TV interview, I'd have to say "No, he could give a .... less." At what point does focussed narcissism (important for any successful athlete) transition into full blown sociopathy? (A complete lack of empathy for others.) I'm not sure Rossi is quite up there with Schumacher, but over the last few years, every time he opens his mouth he inches a little closer in my eyes. Poor form, Valentio, VERY poor form.
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[font="arial, verdana, tahoma, sans-serif"]For 'proper' flow, this should be read before Postiez's preceeding post. [/font]
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[/font][font="arial, verdana, tahoma, sans-serif"]"I don't know, maybe he doesn't know exactly who I am!" Rossi said to Italia1 television. "But it's okay, it's fair enough, he's angry and I would be too. I've made a mistake and for me it was important to apologise. I'm not so interested in what he says."
http://www.autosport...utm_medium=site
:lol:
Stoner (rightly, IMO) questioned Rossi's ability. I'm glad I'm not the only one to interpret Rossi's answer and subsequent pandering to the Italian Media as WAAAY-Over-the-Top Arrogance. I truly believe the guy has started to believe the perpetual hype about how awesome he is.
As for the actual 'apology,' I believe that being SEEN apologizing to Casey was, for Rossi, FAR more important than actually feeling or expressing remorse. As Kesh (I think) pointed out, if he wanted to come across as sincere, he'd have left the cameras and helmet behind, and snuck in the back door for an eye-to-eye "I'm truly sorry. I ...... up." Instead we got the typical arm waving body language that just screams, "I'm playing to the camera." If I were Stoner, I'd be pissed too. IMO, no apology would be better than the staged-for-the-media ........ Rossi subjected him to. The sarcasm and anger are, from my POV, entirely understandable.
So, IS Rossi truly sorry for screwing someone else's race?
If forced to judge based on the Repsol scene and subsequent Italian TV interview, I'd have to say "No, he could give a .... less." At what point does focussed narcissism (important for any successful athlete) transition into full blown sociopathy? (A complete lack of empathy for others.) I'm not sure Rossi is quite up there with Schumacher, but over the last few years, every time he opens his mouth he inches a little closer in my eyes. Poor form, Valentio, VERY poor form.
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
Welcome to the forum. A very moderate post.
I'm not so sure I agree with a few of your assessments. Rossi has always been a very calculating person, I think the drama of having the cameras follow him was a bit of a show. My cynical side thinks he may have been hoping Stoner would do a Max Biaggi and slap him. This of course would have completely eclipsed his own fault in the on track incident. But I may be wrong. In fact, I'd add, both you and me probably have about about the same insight on the apology. Who knows, he may have been truly apologetic, I'm just not buying it.
I don't think crashing was "intentional" but I do think he intended to buzz Stoner to annoy him. Its part of the tools that I've observed in brand Rossi-racing. He attacks with skill, speed, yes, but also with intimidation.
Just curious, what is your take on the outrage of some fans expressing their contempt at Stoner's reply to Rossi?
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
Stoner (rightly, IMO) questioned Rossi's ability. I'm glad I'm not the only one to interpret Rossi's answer and subsequent pandering to the Italian Media as WAAAY-Over-the-Top Arrogance. I truly believe the guy has started to believe the perpetual hype about how awesome he is.
As for the actual 'apology,' I believe that being SEEN apologizing to Casey was, for Rossi, FAR more important than actually feeling or expressing remorse. As Kesh (I think) pointed out, if he wanted to come across as sincere, he'd have left the cameras and helmet behind, and snuck in the back door for an eye-to-eye "I'm truly sorry. I ...... up." Instead we got the typical arm waving body language that just screams, "I'm playing to the camera." If I were Stoner, I'd be pissed too. IMO, no apology would be better than the staged-for-the-media ........ Rossi subjected him to. The sarcasm and anger are, from my POV, entirely understandable.
So, IS Rossi truly sorry for screwing someone else's race?
If forced to judge based on the Repsol scene and subsequent Italian TV interview, I'd have to say "No, he could give a .... less." At what point does focussed narcissism (important for any successful athlete) transition into full blown sociopathy? (A complete lack of empathy for others.) I'm not sure Rossi is quite up there with Schumacher, but over the last few years, every time he opens his mouth he inches a little closer in my eyes. Poor form, Valentio, VERY poor form.[/size][/font]
Great post!
Thanks for the warm welcome. I do agree with what you're saying and it could very well have been a play to the media but a sincere apology could have looked extremely similar and based on that there is no way to really know.
As far as the reply I don't think Stoner handled it well regardless. I can't blame him for being angry but I think he could have come off looking a lot better if he would have just sucked it up and accepted graciously. I know I had a lot less sympathy for his situation after he acted the way he did. That said, if i were in his shoes I might have acted the same way but then regretted it after.
As with Jums, welcome.
But (and with me you will learn, if I post there is always a but) I am of the opposite opinion in regards to how Stoner handled the situation, as for me he handled it perfectly acceptably in what was (IMO only) a circus apology.
With regards to the handling let me put it this way - let me form an example.
You are driving down the road, you come to a stop light that is red, you stop. Suddenly there is an almighty bang as glass flies past your head which suffers a resounding belt back into the seat - yep, some joker decided that you were to be his brake and has just collected your car, but it gets worse. You regather your senses and jump out to find the otehr driver still talking on his mobile phone, he stops and say he will be with you in a minute. He hangs up, jumps out apologises and says 'sorry mate, got distracted by the phone and ...... up'.
This joker is in a truck with a full bullbar so has suffered nary a scratch, meanwhile your car is totalled so while he drives away you sit and wonder how you will get around for the next few weeks with no car.
Yep, totally off topic but let me ask you, was his apology enough or would you still be pissed given that he has returned to work after destroying your car because he was distracted by a phone call?
What if you were self employed and the car your sole source of transport?
How would you feel?
And by teh way, not actually aimed at you personally but more rhetorical.
Gaz
My take on it all, Rossi either went for a pass or missed his braking marker. Not sure which one is true. It may not have started as a pass but it definitely finished as a pass. The front didn't hold up but at this point he was pretty much past Stoner with the exception of half of his back wheel. He made a mistake, fell off and took Stoner out. This has happened before with a multitude of riders and will happen again - someone go through the grid and tell me who hasn't taken someone out before in their racing career.
The marshalls had to clear the rider stuck under the bikes. That was obviously the first priority as it should have been. Rossi had pulled the clutch in to keep the engine running so he just needed to go back on two wheels and then he could take off. Stoner did have to struggle to get assistance as some marshalls seemed to be doing more looking than anything else. Then when they did help, it was a half arsed effort. There was an obvious difference in treatment here but I still believe they should have gotten Rossi out first, because he was under the bike. To be honest though, how the hell do you get 10 marshalls around 1 bike - it's just about impossible so really there is no excuse for some not going to Stoner from the beginning.
I didn't see Stoner trackside but I can understand why he was there. Don't think he should have, it was dangerous but in it was in the heat of the moment. Heard his comments in the pits, he was going on with it a bit. VR did apologise, it should have stopped there. There is history between these two though so this means that things will generally not stop where they should.
It is funny that Stoner is still having problems with the Ducati front end.
Next race should be a clanger especially if Rossi ends up anywhere near Stoner in the same corner. I think Stoner will just about pull over and let him past.
Nothing like a good controversy to get people posting on this forum.
The marshalls had to clear the rider stuck under the bikes. That was obviously the first priority as it should have been. Rossi had pulled the clutch in to keep the engine running so he just needed to go back on two wheels and then he could take off. Stoner did have to struggle to get assistance as some marshalls seemed to be doing more looking than anything else. Then when they did help, it was a half arsed effort. There was an obvious difference in treatment here but I still believe they should have gotten Rossi out first, because he was under the bike. To be honest though, how the hell do you get 10 marshalls around 1 bike - it's just about impossible so really there is no excuse for some not going to Stoner from the beginning.
I didn't see Stoner trackside but I can understand why he was there. Don't think he should have, it was dangerous but in it was in the heat of the moment. Heard his comments in the pits, he was going on with it a bit. VR did apologise, it should have stopped there. There is history between these two though so this means that things will generally not stop where they should.
It is funny that Stoner is still having problems with the Ducati front end.
Next race should be a clanger especially if Rossi ends up anywhere near Stoner in the same corner. I think Stoner will just about pull over and let him past.
Nothing like a good controversy to get people posting on this forum.
Thank you for the welcome as well.
I think this analogy is far from a direct analogue. I admitted that Stoner had the right to be angry, and that I may have handled it the same way in the heat of the moment. The main point that your argument does not take into consideration is the public's eye. I think you always gain at least something from being "the bigger man". If that is not the case then the accusation of Rossi's apology being fake doesn't hold any weight.
That said, if i were in your hypothetical situation I would probably get pretty angry. Afterwards I would see that I may have been just in my anger it really got me nowhere when I was already in a situation where the other driver is accepting full fault. If I were to do something like verbally or physically assault the other driver it would only hurt my situation.
Do not confuse my 'it wasn't in his best interest to handle it that way' with 'he had no right to handle it that way'.
I don't think there will be anymore 'incidents' involving Stoner and Rossi in the future until Rossi's shoulder heals completely which will then give him about 1 second in his lap time.
I didn't know that Stoner was repeating a remark made by Rossi to him in his rookie year.??? If true, I take back any mild criticism I made of Stoner - the remark is even funnier when seen in this light, and more appropriate.
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
Decent post Woody. Except, Rossi was already trying to lift his bike and was not pinned at all before the marshals arrived. But yeah, the rest of your post was decent buddy. About Stoner avoiding Rossi, I think that was his intention with that move, but it ended in disaster. Oh and yeah, we've got a few new members today. I hope they stick around and not become on post ponies.
