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Rossi the next Melandri??

didnt last long i'm out

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Pige, do you think your entry here is not as tainted as you claim BM’s post is? Yeah, how dare BM compare VR to other lesser riders, right? (One of which came runner up to him during a season). Anyway, here is the main difference, and no Mick, its not about the titles, its all about his influence (as Anarchists alluded). Melandri was the first to try this bike that felt like it rode on ice. We all said what a ...... guy he is, Ducati even one step further, sent him to a shrink (Marco must improve for Marco to be Marco). After ONE TEST (despite peeps trying to convince us it wasn't a big deal), Ducati declares, "WE MUST IMPROVE for Rossi to be Rossi." The message: clearly its our fault, not the rider, in this case three other world champions did not get this benefit of the doubt. How is that for a complete opposite reaction. Anybody still want to argue Valentino Rossi GP experience has been on a level playing field? I agree with the idea in general that Melandri is more mentally fragile than Rossi, but there is a reason. I'm sure it really screwed with Melandri's mind when everybody was saing, yo, you are the problem here not the bike. Now multiply that over a year. After on test, Rossi was given the immediate benefit of the doubt, yo, the bike is ...., not you Vale. Rossi has had it all his way, except this year, and just look how he reacted. To use a term I learned fro Chops, 'like a baby throwing out his toys from the pram'. The way Rossi reacted to Yamaha signing Lorenzo showed a mental weakness that we have not seen before, and with good reason, whenever he has said to jump, Dorna have not asked why, they say, how high? Anybody claiming that Elias or Melandri are not close in talent to Rossi (as you here protest enough to leave the thread) is simply wrong; they do have similar talent, just not all the accomplishments (as MickM alludes). But I suppose if you were to put all your backing, the breath and depth of a governing body, the manufactures and providers, in a single minded purpose of preferential treatment, during their best years, its not unimaginable that Melandri or Elias could have done more.



Rossi will not suffer the same fait as Melandri. Why, because Ducati are now in the predicament of risking their entire brand on Rossi's success, which means everything is on the table for a change. When Melandri came on board, since there was not real benchmark except Stoner, we could have ignorantly agreed it was just Melandri being ....... Ah, but them Hayden suffered the same experience. Even still, the ignorant could claim, well Nicky is not better than Melandri. Now, a third good rider that is Rossi takes the Ducati and laps a pubic hair better than Karel Abraham, (to use the words of Jerry Burgess) "ALARM BELLS WOULD HAVE BEEN RINGING...". Yes, a siren must have been going off with red light, and a few holy .....!



Make no mistake that Ducati Rossi rode will not show up in any way shape or form next season! (Despite the claims that just a few tweaks here and there was all they did). Its what GP does, it scripts the winners and us ignorant folk swallow the results at face value. Then sit here and argue how the accomplishments mean this or that about the rider without deep analysis. Now you will have peeps read my post and think I'm saying Rossi is ...., then remind me hes won a hundred titles. But like Pige here, who is disgusted that BM compared Melandri and Elias to Rossi, oh what a crime, is basically saying they are of no value compared to the great Valentino because they did not win in similar fashion. Something that applies to every rider on the grid then. Hahaha.
 
This is a fairly critical bit, where are these indications and where are the articles saying that JB/Rossi have expressed this?



You have not read the reports from Valencia?
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By the way, why doubt it? Had Rossi not given any indications, what would have been the point in testing at all?
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Anyway, for your information Ducati will be at Jerez from tomorrow for three days, to test all the setup indications Rossi gave and that there was no time to test at Valencia. Vitto Guareschi will also ride along with test rider Battaini. Preziosi will be present.
 
Anyway, for your information Ducati will be at Jerez from tomorrow for three days, to test all the setup indications Rossi gave and that there was no time to test at Valencia. Vitto Guareschi will also ride along with test rider Battaini. Preziosi will be present.

Yes I read that. Looks like Karel Abraham will be there too, right? I suppose the metamorphosis of the Ducati is to begin in ernest. What did you think of Biaggi's comments on the difference between Wsbk & GP? Speaking of changing the Ducati completely...



Here in the US, wsbk comes to Miller Motorsports track in Utah. Here is a part of the teleconference.



Kevin Cameron: You seem to be much happier in World Superbike than you were in MotoGP. Can you comment on that?



Max Biaggi: Yeah, indeed. I am. Coming from MotoGP to Superbike, I really see the spirit that was missing there. Here, it is pure racing and when you wake up in the morning, you still want to fight and run the track with all other riders, and try to have fun. And it's not so difficult to have fun in Superbikes. While it came very rarely in MotoGP because everything is written down -- who can be competitive on the top two or three teams, and who can never be there. So it's more about the package that you're racing with.



So in Superbike, even if you're on the second or third row and your package is still close to the guys who are winning races, it doesn't matter; it's just if you feel you can do it or can still fight for the win. It's really more up to you than to the package.LINK
 
It's funny how some complain about this: you see, they didn't listen to poor Melandri, now for Rossi they'll move heaven and earth... as if it was another instance of "unfair" privileged treatment for that spoilt brat of Valentino
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I suggest they wonder why Rossi commands that kind of response.
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It's not like divine right, is it. During his first season in 500, Honda did not listen to him (and later regretted it). The reason why now he is listened to so attentively (as was the case when he moved to Bridgestone, -- remember the crowd of Bridgestone engineers around him during his first ride), is that he has built a reputation for giving always peerless technical feedback.



Remember what Furusawa said in the farewell conference? When computer data and Valentino's feedback did not seem to coincide, I checked and Valentino was always right.



So if now Ducati will turn the bike upside down, it's simply because they hired him for that.
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They may have hoped (as well as Rossi) that it wouldn't be necessary, but they were ready to go all the way.
 
This is not about championships mate, its about adapting to the ducati.

That's the standard answer buddy. You should know this. Question: Rossi ______________(insert question) Answer: Nine time World Champion.
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Anyway, about the topic, Melandri was thrown under the bus at Ducati. Part of it was his own fault, as he had all but admitted he had given up. I think he's still under the hangover. But check out how he tested on a superbike. The man can ride, and he didn't win GP races because he was mentally weak. The topic here is will Rossi have the same experience as Melandri. Actually we already know the answer. A big NO!!! Ducati have already started figure out how to change the bike, while for Marco they thought a shrink might do the trick. It’s an outrageous difference in response, but this, like so much, will eventually be swept under the rug. It’s another indictment on the sport, but this too will eventually become invisible upon the suspect conscience of MotoGP.
 
You have not read the reports from Valencia?
huh.gif


By the way, why doubt it? Had Rossi not given any indications, what would have been the point in testing at all?
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Anyway, for your information Ducati will be at Jerez from tomorrow for three days, to test all the setup indications Rossi gave and that there was no time to test at Valencia. Vitto Guareschi will also ride along with test rider Battaini. Preziosi will be present.





This is actually quite interesting, Ducati is already testing again in Jerez after the last test in Valencia means Rossi did not ask for any big changes.



By the way Rossi ain't Melandri either without or with titles.
 
I thought I would save talpa the trouble by posting the standard answer, which I would agree in itself is not necessarily an answer to absolutely any question concerning rossi, but it could be argued is fairly relevant to the question of whether he is likely to be fast on a bike.



However what I also said was that he had won world championships on 6 different bikes. I can think of another 2 bikes on which he was faster than the regular riders, including colin edwards' world championship winning superbike and the current yamaha superbike. I can recall no bike on which he ended up being slow. I can recall 3 bikes on which melandri was slow.



Rossi may well be similar to melandri except for his mental strength and development ability, but he also probably wouldn't be as good if he only had one arm.



I am just trying to argue rationally here; an argument which implies that casey stoner must be a total god because he can win on a ducati obviously is not one that offends me per se . Part of the reason imo why stoner could win on this bike was that he pushed harder than is reasonable or perhaps even sensible, and I don't blame rossi if he doesn't want to push the bike like that even apart from his banged-up shoulder, since it led to 5 dnfs by stoner this year. I am not unhappy about earlier comments by both rossi and jb about both stoner and the ducati being put in some relief though
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What you say about them being forced to listen to rossi is obviously true, both because of his considerable record of giving feedback useful for developing bikes and because psychiatric/psychological explanations won't fly where he is concerned. This is why I agreed with whoever said ducati had the most pressure on them in the thread addressing that topic
 
so the winners are scripted? then why do we even watch this sport?

i respect you jumkie..you're a level headed dude..but i don't know about that comment there man...was 2006 scripted as well?



is melandri being judged on his entire career or just his tenure on the ducati? cuz even jules compared rossi to melandri during the race at sepang...said something about how he remembers back in 250cc how the ohlins guys were working on rossi's bike and then said "to hell with it, he'll do the rest", implying the whole "the last second comes from you" idea. then said something about how that was the exact opposite of melandri cuz melandri has to have the bike JUST right to be good.



but hell...what do i know? lol
 
so the winners are scripted? then why do we even watch this sport?

i respect you jumkie..you're a level headed dude..but i don't know about that comment there man...was 2006 scripted as well?



is melandri being judged on his entire career or just his tenure on the ducati? cuz even jules compared rossi to melandri during the race at sepang...said something about how he remembers back in 250cc how the ohlins guys were working on rossi's bike and then said "to hell with it, he'll do the rest", implying the whole "the last second comes from you" idea. then said something about how that was the exact opposite of melandri cuz melandri has to have the bike JUST right to be good.



but hell...what do i know? lol

Thanx for the benefit of the doubt Tek. To answer ur question, yes, 2006 was certainly scripted. But the dumb redneck didnt follow the script. Honda did everything to wreck Nicks title run, but the dumb ....... wouldnt give up. He wasnt suppose to win, the season went off script. Now u tell me, if this was an honest competition, would Honda hav designed their 07 bike around the non champ? 06, Rossi was suppose to win, just like every year. The drama the producers make for us is Rossi vs the world. Rossi beats the world, 90% of viewers happy. 07 had unintended consequences, formula change coupled with tire war & another dumb ....... named Casey rode with fierce determination. What was the one uncontrollable factor? The tire war. So Dorna eliminated it. Enter 08, normal script resume. 2010, the lose cannon was Yamaha. They did what Bridgestone was not able to avoid, they did not cave to Rossi pressure. Same bike same tires resulted in a snafu in script.



Tek, most dont agree with me because most believe that GP is honest. But all u need to do is review the series of events that got Rossi on bstones and how Dorna did his bidding, this will give u a clue about the integrity of this sport. WWF looks real, but is not.
 
Tek, most dont agree with me because most believe that GP is honest. But all u need to do is review the series of events that got Rossi on bstones and how Dorna did his bidding, this will give u a clue about the integrity of this sport. WWF looks real, but is not.



If you really think that Motogp is all scripted and dishonest sports then seriously Jumkie why you follow the Motogp.
 
Thanx for the benefit of the doubt Tek. To answer ur question, yes, 2006 was certainly scripted. But the dumb redneck didnt follow the script. Honda did everything to wreck Nicks title run, but the dumb ....... wouldnt give up. He wasnt suppose to win, the season went off script. Now u tell me, if this was an honest competition, would Honda hav designed their 07 bike around the non champ? 06, Rossi was suppose to win, just like every year. The drama the producers make for us is Rossi vs the world. Rossi beats the world, 90% of viewers happy. 07 had unintended consequences, formula change coupled with tire war & another dumb ....... named Casey rode with fierce determination. What was the one uncontrollable factor? The tire war. So Dorna eliminated it. Enter 08, normal script resume. 2010, the lose cannon was Yamaha. They did what Bridgestone was not able to avoid, they did not cave to Rossi pressure. Same bike same tires resulted in a snafu in script.



Tek, most dont agree with me because most believe that GP is honest. But all u need to do is review the series of events that got Rossi on bstones and how Dorna did his bidding, this will give u a clue about the integrity of this sport. WWF looks real, but is not.





Wow!! Don't know what to say here. Tell me your joking Jumm.. Please tell me your joking... I think your giving rossi to much credit lol. He can't be behind it all man.
 
If you really think that Motogp is all scripted and dishonest sports then seriously Jumkie why you follow the Motogp.

I've been asked this many times. Yours is not the first. First of all, I'm more curious why you think what happens in GP should be viewed at face value?



To answer your question, I watch because I like motorcycle racing. But I don't watch like an ignorant person and make conclusions as if this were a street fight. Every now and then, the best plans of mice and men go off script. This is when GP is at its best. Its rare, but it happens. I'm not so naive to think that powerful men who's interest it is of making money, through viewership at the expense of an authentic competition, are not going to skew whatever they can to prop up the golden goose. If you watch with that perspective, then I'd like for you to send me money, I have a great scam, and you might just be the sucker I need.
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Wow!! Don't know what to say here. Tell me your joking Jumm.. Please tell me your joking... I think your giving rossi to much credit lol. He can't be behind it all man.

Haha, no, buddy, I'm not joking. And no, of course Rossi is NOT behind it all buddy. But he's behind part of it, and that makes him complicit in the dishonest nature of the sport. Let me ask you this, do you trust Jeremy Burgess to speak favorably when it comes to Rossi? If so, what would you say if I showed you a quote where he says Rossi used a tactic to coerce to get his way through threats and not through "the normal channels". BTW, that's code for "backroom deal". Would you be convinced the sport is not only susceptible to suspect integrity, but has actually engaged in bidding for one of its contestants at the detriment of others? I know most peeps rely on official press releases to say this or that is fact, but how many times have you seen a company issue a press release they did something dishonest? Only a naive person would be waiting for such a revelation.



I don't know how long you've been watching GP, but here is something to ponder:



Jeremy Burgess trying to defend that Bridestone, after saying publicly twice that they would not supply Rossi, then had a reversal. This reversal was after Dorna threatened to have a single tire supplier and hinted that Michelin would be kept. Bridgestone then decided they would supply Rossi facing elimination from the sport. Now keep in mind, at the time, Burgess was against the single tire supplier and in favor of a tire war, but then did an about face after Rossi threatened to leave and shortly after Dorna started making all these proposals, a 59 year history of tire wars, was on the cusp of ending, why? Because Rossi threatened to leave, so something had to be done. Now this interview is after Rossi (while two other riders also requested Bstones, but were denied) was then solely awarded the Bstones.



"He was aware of what he needed to improve, or believed he knew what he needed to improve his performance, and without that product he didn't think he could achieve it.



"He was in a position to push to the very end, even perhaps to throw his last card on the table and say, 'well I won't race unless I get Bridgestones, that's how important it is to me.'"



He added: "Alarm bells would have been ringing because Valentino probably pulls anywhere between 20 and 60 percent of the crowd at any European race.



"When he didn't get the tyres through the usual channels he needed to play his trump card, as any businessman would. I just think that's normal. Jeremy Burgess defending Rossi's award of Bstones



Now for sure there will be people deflecting the issue here and say, he was just trying to get the best equipment. But that is not the point, now is it. You ask about the honesty of the sport, right? Inam asks, if its all scriptedm why watch. So don't deflect from the issue here as you will see below people will defend Burgess and Rossi. Now think about what was said, Burgess states "he didn't get the tyres through the usual channels..." Well then, what other channels are available? That is the question you must ask yourself. He explains what this means by saying Rossi "was in a position to push". And as if there is any confusion, he alludes to what would get Dorna's attention, a loss of viewers is a loss of revenue! "Alarm bells would have been sounding". Yes, the alarm that if Rossi made good on his threat, Dorna would lose lots of money. Notice Burgess repeatedly treats this situation as a "business" decision. Yet we are talking about what you want to believe is an authentic competition.



Now this is just one example, and I have many, of the power politics of GP. Its NOT an authentic competition, so why do people talk about it as if it is???
 
Money talks as always.



If Vale was riding around in the midfield on a Ducati all year, viewers would switch off in droves. Dorna wont be allowing that to happen.

The fact that Ducati closed up their superbike factory team & have every man & his dog testing the bike to try to make it work for Valentino, says a lot about the huge amount of pressure Ducati are under.

If it was still Stoner & Hayden on the bike, no one would give a .... if the bike sucked. But now they are under an enormous spotlight & if they don't deliver the chosen one a bike that can win him another title, then Ducati's name will take a huge beating even from their fellow Italians. For what it's worth I think they will be right up there next year. Theoretically the main problem is still the front end. Get that problem solved & they will be well on the way to having a very good bike. Still they should have got it sorted last year & they didn't.



I find the whole thing rather fascinating.

The last year of 800cc racing should be a beauty. 2012 will be even better with 1000cc bikes.

We can't ask for much more than that.
 

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