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Pedrosa's attitude

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ Jan 12 2007, 07:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Wait a minute, aren't you the pot smoker that doesn't "inhale"? My point, which you missed, was not that your list of challengers to Doohan were better than him, but that they were not to par with the level of competition during the Schwantz, Lawson, Rainey, Mamola, etal era. You can read, but do you expect me to believe you missed my point?

True, but it does take some riders time to "Mature". It took Doohan 4 seasons to win a race, Hayden was in his 3rd full season when he won his first race. I think guys like Lawson, Rainey and Schwantz were just somthing else, but it might be that Criville and Cadrolora weren't in thier prime during that era, which might partially explain why they weren't up to par then.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basspete @ Jan 11 2007, 01:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Hey I got no gripe with Ellison, it was good to have a Brit in there and at least he was in there pulling chicks at Laguna.

And youre right (for once
<
) where is roger? I'm mindlessly cheerleading on my own here.

So now you're a "Brit" and you admit you are a "mindless cheerleader". I see there is a "meth" problem in your neck of the woods too.

"If its not Scottish, its Crap! C'mon man. Grow some bolas. I didn't even get much of a reaction with that "trolling" remark about VR being overrated? What the hell is going on?

Anyway, lets get back on topic before they kick us off and banish us to the lounge (big brother is always watching).

Hey, say something ........ about Pedrosa, and then I'll say something smart.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (richo @ Jan 11 2007, 01:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>True, but it
Yes, totally agree. Absolutely. But for sure, I'm not suggesting that Doohan was not a great champ. And relating it to the topic (about Pedrosa being a jerk and all), hasn't Doohan also been accused of being a lop with the media? What are your thoughts?
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ Jan 12 2007, 08:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Yes, totally agree. Absolutely. But for sure, I'm not suggesting that Doohan was not a great champ. And relating it to the topic (about Pedrosa being a jerk and all), hasn't Doohan also been accused of being a lop with the media? What are your thoughts?

I'm not too sure what you mean by a Lop, but if you mean a prick, then yes, for sure. Doohan was always very smug. He was also a "master of mind games", which translates as a talented bugger who was a big meanie to the other guys he raced with. So I would say he isn't the nicest bloke around, but all great geniuses have thier vices. I dunno. Maybe it's just the fact that he kicked so much arse in the name of Australia that I can look past faults like that.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (richo @ Jan 11 2007, 02:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I'm not too sure what you mean by a Lop, but if you mean a prick, then yes, for sure.

Yes, "lop" means all those things here. I wasn't calling him a "prick" for the record (just trying to be careful, I know he means alot to you Aussies, and frankly, you're a mod and don't want to offend (being funny here)). Lop also means curt and brisk. Its funny but, do you ever notice when the camera gets a shot of him in the pits during a race, the commentor sometimes mentions how he has never been a fan of the camera and the media? Haha, always makes me laugh.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (richo @ Jan 11 2007, 09:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>True, but it does take some riders time to "Mature". It took Doohan 4 seasons to win a race, Hayden was in his 3rd full season when he won his first race. I think guys like Lawson, Rainey and Schwantz were just somthing else, but it might be that Criville and Cadrolora weren't in thier prime during that era, which might partially explain why they weren't up to par then.


Thimescales make things even more complicated, is a rider less impressive if he takes a while to find his form, even if when he does, its seriously strong form (like doohan). And then there is the value you might put on the length of a riders winnng career, something that i think is a reason why people like to forget about freddie spencer. or that could be down to how long after their form fun the rider chooses to continue.

But about Pedrosas attitude "while racing" as it was put, his off track persona is irrelevant. I think he has an attitude similar in some ways to nicky hayden's, he is totally comited, he doesnt want to take ...., he is focussed and head strong, and he wants to be world champ. I think they differ though because Hayden has the experience to back up his attitude, and although he made much less than other rookies, dani was still learning, and made mistakes a few times. The result of most of these was anger, probably because he felt the mistakes shouldnt have been made. i think he takes his riding quite seriously.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ Jan 11 2007, 10:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>So now you're a "Brit" and you admit you are a "mindless cheerleader". I see there is a "meth" problem in your neck of the woods too.

"If its not Scottish, its Crap! C'mon man. Grow some bolas. I didn't even get much of a reaction with that "trolling" remark about VR being overrated? What the hell is going on?

Anyway, lets get back on topic before they kick us off and banish us to the lounge (big brother is always watching).

Hey, say something ........ about Pedrosa, and then I'll say something smart.
Yes, totally agree. Absolutely. But for sure, I'm not suggesting that Doohan was not a great champ. And relating it to the topic (about Pedrosa being a jerk and all), hasn't Doohan also been accused of being a lop with the media? What are your thoughts?


Grow some bolas???

Ok Valentino Rossi is quite simply the most successful racer of the modern era. Period.

Pedrosa is a very promising new rider who can and will continue to kick the arse of Nicky (one win outside of my home track and that was only coz another yank crashed coz he was leading at a track that wasnt Laguna Seca and panicked) Hayden.

Pedrosa may be an odd little guy, but he is Hondas next Motogp champion, and HRC know it.

I've got no personal gripe with the guy, I've never met him, and he didnt crash into a guy I worship for his consistency. He's just another guy for Vale to beat this year.

But I would be surprised if Hayden doesnt win at Laguna Seca this year. But unless Colin (or maybe even Hopper for a change) crash when leading, that will be his annual win.

And Doohan was amazing too!

Pete
<
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basspete @ Jan 11 2007, 02:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Grow some bolas???

Thats Spanish for "balls".

Excellent post Pete. I was starting to think you liked and agreed with me.

OK, I'll give you Rossi and Doohan, but Pedrosa is still a jerk, no matter how much sense Tom makes.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ Jan 11 2007, 10:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Thats Spanish for "balls".

Excellent post Pete. I was starting to think you liked and agreed with me.

OK, I'll give you Rossi and Doohan, but Pedrosa is still a jerk, no matter how much sense Tom makes.


Hey Ive said it before, I dont dislike you, I just think your motogp opinions are "misguided"
<


Pete
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Jan 11 2007, 02:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>But about Pedrosas attitude "while racing" as it was put, his off track persona is irrelevant.

I think he has an attitude similar in some ways to nicky hayden's, he is totally comited, he doesnt want to take ....,

i think he takes his riding quite seriously.


I don't know anything about him off the track. Except those photos of him relutantly holding some chick's ....

You're killing me with your comparison to Hayden. Please, I think all the riders are serious about their craft. But you're gonna make me puke saying he is like Hayden, even if its just to make a point.
 
Sorry, i only feel like that because i am a huge fan of repsol honda as a whole. I love the paint job, i love the bikes, i love the entire Honda operation. And most of all i love both their riders (Hayden slightly more so). I love they way that they have similarities in their attitudes(maybe i see them because i want to see them), but ultimately differences in their execution, and particularly their oposing riding styles.

And just to cap all of that off, two of the sweetest looking helmets in the paddock.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Jan 11 2007, 02:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>And most of all i love both their riders (Hayden slightly more so).

You remind me of Mr. Shupe and Burky (Just met him) and a few others. Very Eloquent, Knowledgeable, Fair and Balanced, and take the time to write out a solid and meaningful post. Excellent. I gotta go now. But great exchange.


(Baldy, Roger, and Pete, you could learn something from this guy).
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Jan 11 2007, 10:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Sorry, i only feel like that because i am a huge fan of repsol honda as a whole. I love the paint job, i love the bikes, i love the entire Honda operation. And most of all i love both their riders (Hayden slightly more so). I love they way that they have similarities in their attitudes(maybe i see them because i want to see them), but ultimately differences in their execution, and particularly their oposing riding styles.

And just to cap all of that off, two of the sweetest looking helmets in the paddock.


Awww a nice Repsol Honda love in..... How many races did they win between them this year?????


I do like Repsol Hondas though.... Doohan's, Tady Okadas',and of course Valentino Rossi's......ahhh the glory days.....


Pete
 
Cheers man, its just really nice to have someone to talk to about this kinda stuff who seems as enthusiastic as me(not including my brother). It gets really old talking to your friends about it and loosing them as soon as you say a word that isnt Rossi. Or them telling you they watched the gp then saying, the bue guy was winning but the he crashed (Gibernau in any race you like 2005).
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Jan 11 2007, 02:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Cheers man, its just really nice to have someone to talk to about this kinda stuff who seems as enthusiastic as me

Don't want to rehash too much about Schwantz; but I read this and wanted to get your thoughts and Pete's and anybody else that wants to chime in.

"Fact: traction control has been around a lot longer than most truly realize. Think about this: when Kel Carruthers built Kenny Roberts' TZ-powered dirt track bike in the 1970s, he did so with a one-cylinder ignition cut-off, which Roberts would manually run from the handlebar, knocking the four cylinder down to three on acceleration. That, my friends, was traction control.

Wheel speed sensor traction control is now legal in AMA and, if what we have seen in MotoGP is any indication, it should make the racing closer and safer.

As a media entity, Soup is fine with traction control being legal essentially worldwide—just as long as they retroactively award Kevin Schwantz all world championships from 1989-1995."
(Dean Adams)

Seems to me somebody else also thinks Schwantz was on unequal machinery too.

(would've like to start an entire thread on Schwantz but feel its too late so I'll just put it here)
 
I read about that TZ, pretty awsome machine.

Jumkie, I wouldn't quote Dean Adams as a reasonable source. The guy is the reason I call that site superBIASplanet.com
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (richo @ Jan 11 2007, 10:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I read about that TZ, pretty awsome machine.

Jumkie, I wouldn't quote Dean Adams as a reasonable source. The guy is the reason I call that site superBIASplanet.com
Hi Richo, actually, I was waiting for your response and had one of my own prepared for you. With all due respect of course, here it is:


Yes I've heard. All I can say is this:"Bias" sounds like "BS."

(get my drift?)


Let me explain, in case you didn't catch my witty play on sounds. (perhaps it doesn't translate well in that weird accent you Aussies and Brits (including some Scotts) have with "English"
<
. "Bias" sounds very similar to "BS", and I think we both know what "BS" stands for, but just in case, BS=..........

What I'm saying in plain English is, thinking suprebikeplanet is "Bias" to me is "BS". Perhaps its not popular in Europe or that big island you live on
<
, but its popular here in the US. Let me ask you this to make my point, are the Spanish mags/.coms any more or any less "Bias" than Superbikeplanet.com? Are the British mags/.coms any more or any less "Bias" than the Spanish mags/.coms? How about the Italian mag/.coms (this one I think drives home my point).

One or a few person's opinion does not a "bias" make. We get our info from many outlets. It is for the consumer of that information to decide what is or is not "bias". I would argue, all media or disseminators of information are "bias" to a degree. So for you to say it's "bias", therefore discredited is frankly, for me to decide. And for you and me and others to debate. Which is really fun with people like you and a few others that are very knowledgeable and what I consider, fair and balanced.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ Jan 12 2007, 03:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I would argue, all media or disseminators of information are "bias" to a degree.

I seem to agree on this part, that's why i refuse to believe 100% what i read in the media. Be it MotoGP news or current affairs, i'd prefer to do my own research by talking to people to find out more, rather than simply flipping the pages and believe everything that's been written.
 
Its a very rare thing a journalist who isnt biased in somee way. Just as some people on here may have a biased opinion. But I doubt that anyone here would do that?

In retrospect it's hard to say if the Suzuki was really that bad compared to the Honda and Yamaha. Its the old thing, a great rider will flatter a crap bike, and a great bike will flatter a mediocre rider. After all, didnt Beattie get some great results on the Suzuki? and if I'm not mistaken Russell got a few poles on it too. There is also the fact that there were always 2 Suzukis out there and more Hondas and Yamahas, which gave the other manufacturers more chances to hit the front.

If it was really that bad, and Schwantz was so wasted on it, why didnt he leave and go to Honda or Yamaha? Obviouly, he woldnt want to be on the same team as Wayne, but if brand loyalty is costing you wins, then isnt it time to re assess?

Schwantz was an brilliant rider, not least to watch, but I felt that as his career went on, he got more and more whiney. He also let people get right under his skin Rainey(obviously) Doohan, at the time he seemed to really grudge the fact that Doohan took his title, like he had no right to! and of course lil John Koscinski whose presence in the paddock drove Kevin nuts!

Personally, I think Kevin achieved the success he deserved, it was a cruel way to earn his title in the end, and none of us wanted him to win like that, but as I have previously said, Wayne crashed that day and Kevin didnt.

The only way we would ever find out who really was the best would be to put them all on identical bike, and thats not going to happen now..

And Stephane Peterhansel would kick everybody's arse on any bike anyway!

Pete
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ Jan 12 2007, 05:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Hi Richo, actually, I was waiting for your response and had one of my own prepared for you. With all due respect of course, here it is:
Yes I've heard. All I can say is this:"Bias" sounds like "BS."

(get my drift?)
Let me explain, in case you didn't catch my witty play on sounds. (perhaps it doesn't translate well in that weird accent you Aussies and Brits (including some Scotts) have with "English"
<
. "Bias" sounds very similar to "BS", and I think we both know what "BS" stands for, but just in case, BS=..........

What I'm saying in plain English is, thinking suprebikeplanet is "Bias" to me is "BS". Perhaps its not popular in Europe or that big island you live on
<
, but its popular here in the US. Let me ask you this to make my point, are the Spanish mags/.coms any more or any less "Bias" than Superbikeplanet.com? Are the British mags/.coms any more or any less "Bias" than the Spanish mags/.coms? How about the Italian mag/.coms (this one I think drives home my point).

One or a few person's opinion does not a "bias" make. We get our info from many outlets. It is for the consumer of that information to decide what is or is not "bias". I would argue, all media or disseminators of information are "bias" to a degree. So for you to say it's "bias", therefore discredited is frankly, for me to decide. And for you and me and others to debate. Which is really fun with people like you and a few others that are very knowledgeable and what I consider, fair and balanced.

It's almost impossible to practice journalisim without at least a small level of Bias. However, there is a diffrence between subconsiously hinting at your opinions and openly feeding them to your readers. Also, an ethical journalist should make a conscious effort not to show bias in news articles, because biases influence the minds of the masses propaganda-style.
I can understand that you Jumkie, would agree with a lot of what Dean Adams writes, which will always make it harder to detect any bias. I would say, locally, none of our racing sites or sections in magazines (racing isn't popular enough over here to warrant it's own magazine) tend to show bias, mostly because they are just emulators of press releases. A site like Superbike planet is on a different level. Despite the fact that I belive there are major signs of bias on the site, it also has some great articles written by very talented journalists (If I recall correctly, the article about King Kenny's TZ that I refered to earlier was from Superbike planet.)
Obviously one thing that's hard to sit on the fence about this year is the Rossi vs. Hayden issue. This, for me, has been a big sign of the Bias shown on SBK planet. I don't really consider myself to be in either Hayden or Rossi camp, and therefore I would consider myself an objective reader of articles relating to the championship fight. And when I read Dean Adams' articles on the issues I can't help thinking "jeez this guy loves Honda/Hayden so much that he can't help writing propaganda for them" I think this theory is backed up by the fact that the site is American-based, and sponsored by Honda. I can't think of anything off the top of my head, but almost every time I visit that site, which i admit isn't very often I read somthing, usually wirtten by Dean Adams that I would consider far too biased for news reporting. Freedom of speech dictates that he should be entitled to his opinion, but I belive it should be in editorial-style columns (which I'm sure he also writes to supplement his biased journalism) seperate from news articles that are used to keep people informed on what's going on in the GP world. The point at which the two mix would be where I define the bias starts. Also, I enjoy reading the captions from photos they display from MotoGP and WSBK events, they're often amusing, and it's good to have a laugh. But when it comes to an American rider, most of the time it's serious, and these guys tend to shower more glory on them. It seems to me like they can dish out the jokes, but can't take them.
As you said other sites or magazines can show Bias, but in my opinion none are on the same level as Superbikeplanet.com. You can read the same story on "The soup" and, for example, crash.net and you can almost smell it. Just the way the article is written, with too much opinion mixed in with hard facts. Well, that's what I think anyway.
Now, as a forum, this place is totally different. I can read, for example you Jumkie, saying Puig is a prick and think "I dont't agree with that, and I'll say why" or, (more realistically) "That's true, I agree with that." That's fine. Forums are about expressing opinions. But when you get men in postions such as Dean Adams holds, with a responsibility to provide his readers with unbiased journalism in order to allow them to think for themselves and formulate thier own opinions, writing articles that are so biased, it's a different story. And as long as I still consider the site to be overly biased, I'll be heading over to crash.net for my GP and Superbike news.
 

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