<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Jan 10 2007, 06:18 PM)
<{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Having read (and enjoyed) your posts i have come to one conclusion. Neither of us will be convinced by the other, and i dont feel like i have much more to say about the matter.
But i would like to question your suggestion that he was the posterchild of consistency.
As side notes;
- dont get me started on Rossi fans pretending to be bike racing fans and calling Hayden a lesser chamion, enough has been said and i dont have time for those people anymore.
- Are you one of the people who considers doohan to be less of a great then the numbers suggest due to his weaker competition? can be no right answer, and no, lets just wait and see resolution. It makes for great discussions.
I think your right, we agree to disagree as they say. But I think the point here is really the great echange of thoughts. And for that I thank you.
Maybe we should open up another thread as you mildly suggested to discuss these eras.
As far as consistency, I do think he was consistent because you could year in year out expect pretty much the same great showing. Winning zero races one season then a few the next then one the next then several the next, that to me sould seem inconsistant. But the statistics indicate that he was consistant in my view. If you were to make a list of riders careers and take averages, I think you would find that the numbers would indicated overwelming consistances by Schwantz (as I tried to show that by presenting some actual facts to you).
Certainly I think Doohan was one of the greats. Let me say again for the record (before I get some Aussies like Richo on my tail): That Doohan was a great rider, one of the best of all time. As a matter of fact, if you ever watch the video "Head to Head", he talks about Schwantz as being thee "fastest" guy he ever raced with. Nevertheless, as you say, there is no right or wrong answer; perhaps, however, the reality is there were seasons that some champions experienced various degrees of competition. Let me ask you, if I said Giacomo Agostini is "overrated" would I have a case?
You previously posted that titles are not all what makes a rider great. In fact, here in the US, Baseball is a very popular sport. There are great players that have had 20 plus seasons, have made it into the Hall of Fame based on the statistics of their great performances, and yet have never won a championship. And the opposite is also true, there are players on great teams that are fairly good players themselves and have won multiple championships. Such is the reality of life. But most would agree that saying a Hall of Famer who has not managed to rack up championships as "overrated" or not worthy of mention along with other legends of the sport, as a bit unfair. I tried to make a case of this with facts, and questions, and hypothetical questions (most of which went unanswered). But you are certainly right about debating history in that its entertaining and I might add, leads to some learning.
But like I said, the discussion itself is what's fun. At least you take the time to respond with some solid opinions rather than empty one liners.
Anyway, getting back on topic. Pedrosa is a bit of an enigma. Even though I’ve said it before, I will say it again, we are just passing the time here talking and speculating about the sport we love because its rather interesting and sure helps to pass the time during the off season. Who really knows what’s in the guy’s heart? I certainly don’t. But as a spectator, observer, and free thinker, I fashion my opinions about riders. I think it is well established that the guy is fast and successful on the track. But the discussion here, if I remember, was about his “attitude”. (Now of course who are we to discuss such a personal matter), but hey, it’s a forum and what the hell, this is what we came here to do, talk. Now I stated I really don’t like the guy. All of which deals with his “attitude”; which means manners, etiquette, propriety, etc. and such. Now for me, well I interpret his antics as adverse and unpleasant, envious and selfish. All of which are character traits that I don’t value. If this thread was about how fast he is, I’d say he is one of the top talents and forces to reckon this coming season, not doubt. But still think the bugger is a jerk.
