To me, the best judge of a riders skill is his team mate. Arguably, everything should be equal. Rossi hasn't had to face a team mate which was allowed the freedom to compete with him on equal terms, until Lorenzo arrived. Rossi then erected the famous wall in the garage. As lorenzo was on equal terms within Yamaha, this was Rossi ploy to tip the scales in his favour & retain this advantage he has always had over his team mates.Rossi always had the last say on who he rode with & he never allowed anyone who could beat him (Stoner veto) until Yamaha stood up to him & said "No Vale, we will be hiring Jorge next year despite your objection".
Rossi's Legacy Tainted
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To me, the best judge of a riders skill is his team mate. Arguably, everything should be equal. Rossi hasn't had to face a team mate which was allowed the freedom to compete with him on equal terms, until Lorenzo arrived. Rossi then erected the famous wall in the garage. As lorenzo was on equal terms within Yamaha, this was Rossi ploy to tip the scales in his favour & retain this advantage he has always had over his team mates.Rossi always had the last say on who he rode with & he never allowed anyone who could beat him (Stoner veto) until Yamaha stood up to him & said "No Vale, we will be hiring Jorge next year despite your objection".
Take it how you like; I don't know you, but do disagree with rossi's legacy being tainted, and have done so before when this topic has been debated on numerous occasions previously before your advent on the forum. You can say he is not the unquestioned GOAT anymore if you like and I will agree with you. I have never had any concern for whether he is or not, nor seen any need to assign GOAThood to him or anyone else in the first place. Again, for him to have prevailed over everyone who turned up to race him for as long as he did in the fashion he did leaves a legacy that can't be tainted.
Everyone eventually gets old or injured or loses motivation or their will to prevail, except perhaps ago who not as arguably had pronounced advantages and less competition for much of his career. Even playing the politics correctly to make sure you stay on the right bike or that the bike you are on remains the right bike has always been a significant part of the premier class game; ask another great, eddie lawson.
As I have said, stoner (of whom there is some evidence I may be a fan) has called it quits at 26 after 2 titles. I doubt lorenzo will keep it going for 7 titles either. And while stoner's and lorenzo's performances against rossi are proof of their mettle imo, he rode rather well himself against stoner in 2008 and lorenzo in 2009.
Absolutely, it would be like ago's last title win on the yamaha.
I don't think he will, but he will go close.
Ironically, we now go full circle. People like j4rno have always had a fair and balanced view, but where all this started was the discounting of stoner's 2007 title on the basis of a perceived massive bike advantage, and the detraction from nicky's title before that. No-one had a problem with any of valentino's achievements prior to the trashing of those two worthy championship wins by riders other than valentino.
Joined Aug 2008
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Thailand
From my perspective this is the issue. Who were these idiots saying GOAT while his career is still underway. IMHO GOAT status is conferred about 10 - 15 years AFTER a career is over and things are a little more objective. Rossi's legacy cannot be tainted at this point because until his career finishes he has no legacy to discuss.
thats the thing tho...stoner is leaving...so thats it for him. there is no more what if's. He stepped out on his own accord.
It has been like that alot, we have been spoiled with around 3 or 4 real title contenders within the last few years, alot of the time it has been only 2
Absolutely correct logical point. I think however it is reasonable to speculate that whatever happens valentino will be remembered as truly great though, and the ducati interlude is likely to be seen as an aberration towards the end of his career, in the same way that eddie lawson's carreer is not judged on his years at cagiva, not that eddie's win for that team wasn't impressive though.
Joined Sep 2006
3K Posts | 4+
Leading
Joined Sep 2006
3K Posts | 4+
Leading
I've been here since September 2006 & I can say that, that is not strictly true. In fact it's most of the same names that had an axe to grind then that are grinding axes now.
i have only been here since June 2007, but there was much detraction from stoner's efforts in that year with little preceding detraction from rossi's achievements by stoner fans that I can recall. What the sequence was in 2006 I don't know, but I am led to believe there was considerable detraction from nicky hayden in that year as well, which was probably not by hayden or stoner fans.
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
Are u kidding? ...., Goaty trying to rewrite history, as most VR fans are fond of doing. The only thing that got the Yellow Minions off NH's back was Casey Hate, which has provent to be more potentent. The end of the 06 season was brutal times for Haydenites. Thank God Stoner started whipping VRs .... But regarding VRs previous accomplishments, PS only came online in 05. By 06 this site was 95% Boppers. So when i dove in head first, only my ankles were not covered in ..... Up util that point there was only a very small voice of reason. Can u imagine? How the hell could a voice of truth survive in a cesspool of crap? Everybody was on the sauce, media in full compliance with the bopper nation, the entire sport was smitten by the clown antics, and their cult leader himself believed he was God as he pronounced curses over his rivals. Im happy he stayed long enuf for those who say it then as a facade, only now in the last couple of years to be vindicated.
Joined Apr 2008
7K Posts | 3K+
Out of Nowhere
Goat, peruse the member list and weigh up and reacquaint yourself with the vast legions of fickle Valentino worshippers that no longer post on this site. The 'RossiisGod' 'Rossidaking' 'Rossi_Fan' 'SuckValesDick_46' or 'Mick...Rossi....46...No1...
' brigade. Unashamed devotees of the yellow creed. I fully expect - akin to "The King in The Mountain' folk tales for this army to awake one day - probably during the second coming next year - and over-run this forum along with flaky new recruits. The fact is that many Valentino fans are just that, 'Valentino fans' and glory hunters as opposed to being fans of the sport itself and have nothing to bring to a debate - (in much the same way that most Manchester United fans have no affiliation with the City whatsoever and have probably never been to Old Trafford). Which is a great shame given the studious love the man himself has for the sport and in view of the genuine Rossi fans that post on here both occasionally and regularly.
Joined Apr 2008
7K Posts | 3K+
Out of Nowhere
In human society those who are successful will inevitably be idolized or hated (or both) by a part of the public. Of course unless one likes to participate in mass neurosis there is no need to indulge in that.
Joined Sep 2006
3K Posts | 4+
Leading
It's not about the amount of people, it's about the same few forum whores saying the same things they have always said, predating either Hayden or Stoner's championship wins. I started posting after longtime lurkage precisely because of these same people. I did not understand their idiosyncratic personalities as I do now.
So to say it's because of how others reacted is a bit much, when really demonstrably it's about pissing the most amount of people off that you can.
So to say it's because of how others reacted is a bit much, when really demonstrably it's about pissing the most amount of people off that you can.
You are one of the most intelligent posters on here, but don't seem to get that some people, however unreasonable it may seem to you, are simply fans of riders other than rossi. I make no claims to ever having been a rossi fan, but was quite happy about him winning his first 5 championships, and his 7th for that matter once stoner couldn't win it. I actually started posting on here myself because of what I saw as unfair assessment of stoner's success in 2007, that being all the massive bike advantage/bike that rode itself stuff rather than the criticism of his personality and character which mostly came later.
[EDIT Apologies goat, this was an early morning post in an insomniac/sleep walking moment. No doubt there are people who have always had it in for rossi as you say. From my biased perspective, the sequence of events mainly was that after much attribution of stoner's success purely to vast bike advantage in 2007, a few people including me pointed out that valentino had fairly good bikes on occasions in the past as well. I don't attribute his very great success to bike advantages at all, but think that since it was brought up in relation to to hayden and stoner (not necessarily by you) that some counterpoint was neither unreasonable nor should have been surprising].
Joined Sep 2006
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Leading
No apologies needed, I've highlighted the term escalation many times. It was certainly what brought me here, I would imagine it is what brought Arrab's famous Yellow Army here. & Latterly the Stoner Army (notice how I respectfully avoid the terms Boppers & Boners). Of course Jum is the one man Hayden Army.
It's easy to forget that some of the stated views are not what the individual actually thinks. It's whatever will get a 50 page thread about how Rossi has a house on Ibiza because the age of consent is 10 for boys.
God knows I've said some ...., I always tried to make it so far over the top that my intentions were clear. Doesn't always work
It's easy to forget that some of the stated views are not what the individual actually thinks. It's whatever will get a 50 page thread about how Rossi has a house on Ibiza because the age of consent is 10 for boys.
God knows I've said some ...., I always tried to make it so far over the top that my intentions were clear. Doesn't always work
