Rossi's Legacy Tainted
- Thread starter Bunyip
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Agreed the lap times were good and it looked strong on corner exit,the thing im not sure of was it down to a big improvement or Rossi digging deep and risking his neck for the Sic,Misano home gp thing.
Joined Feb 2009
3K Posts | 2+
siebenbürgen süße heimat!
probably a combination of both
don't want this topic to go in circles, but i recently had a chat with a friend of mine about rossis impressive stats (race wins, world championships) and i'd like to hear what you folks would say about this.would rossi have been champion all those years without the SNS and all that stuff?
me and my buddy agreed that equipment (tyres, best bike all the time or at the very least something thats up there capable of winning as was the case in 2004) probably enabled him to win much more races than if he had a "normal" string of equipment. that is , not the best bike,tyres,everything all the time. you get what i mean
but when it comes to championships who could touch rossi in 2001-2005?
lets put all the riders on stock fireblades or aprilia rs125s in our mind. who could have beaten him for race victories?
a few names come to mind, certainly among them gibernau,biaggi,roberts,barros,hayden and melandri.
but over the course of a championship i guess , barring injury, nobody could have beaten him in those years.
not that those guys were bad riders, en contraire, but i genuinly believe he was the best out there for those years. i remember ryder saying something ( i believe it was in the movie faster) like : its gonna take another rider not in the series yet to beat him.
actually that was the case , rossi only got riders that would match his level in 2006+2008 IMO
IMO his legacy is only tainted because of the hype that was a direct result of him having boosted race victory numbers.
don't want this topic to go in circles, but i recently had a chat with a friend of mine about rossis impressive stats (race wins, world championships) and i'd like to hear what you folks would say about this.would rossi have been champion all those years without the SNS and all that stuff?
me and my buddy agreed that equipment (tyres, best bike all the time or at the very least something thats up there capable of winning as was the case in 2004) probably enabled him to win much more races than if he had a "normal" string of equipment. that is , not the best bike,tyres,everything all the time. you get what i mean
but when it comes to championships who could touch rossi in 2001-2005?
lets put all the riders on stock fireblades or aprilia rs125s in our mind. who could have beaten him for race victories?
a few names come to mind, certainly among them gibernau,biaggi,roberts,barros,hayden and melandri.
but over the course of a championship i guess , barring injury, nobody could have beaten him in those years.
not that those guys were bad riders, en contraire, but i genuinly believe he was the best out there for those years. i remember ryder saying something ( i believe it was in the movie faster) like : its gonna take another rider not in the series yet to beat him.
actually that was the case , rossi only got riders that would match his level in 2006+2008 IMO
IMO his legacy is only tainted because of the hype that was a direct result of him having boosted race victory numbers.
Joined Oct 2006
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Your Mom's House
Thats what happens when you have to keep up the pace, as opposed to when your only worry is staying ahead of the first CRTs, which is the normal circumstance for VR. Ah, what a difference of 'having the benefit of set up while others did not' and actually trying makes.
Joined Oct 2007
4K Posts | 744+
Tuscany, Italy
Good post.
Regarding the equipment thing, same could be said of Doohan or Ago, the only two other riders to have won 5+ titles in the premier class.
Nobody can win strings of titles on bad equipment! But a champion has to earn that best equipment first. The best bikes are never given lightly or carelessly.
And let us not forget that some top riders can sit on a HRC Honda for years without winning any titles.
Truth is that Rossi is a survivor from another era. He should have retired in 2010 after that nasty crash. He's been spoiling his statistics since...
But apparently he doesn't care for the stats, certainly much less than his fans!
Joined Feb 2009
3K Posts | 2+
siebenbürgen süße heimat!
100% agreed j4rno, except your take on 2010
we've seen doohan against some of the greats , ago had hailwood, now rossi has stoner and lorenzo.
would have been a shame if he retired. i really look forward to next year. its a shame casey,jorge and dani have not been there earlier to challange him!
we've seen doohan against some of the greats , ago had hailwood, now rossi has stoner and lorenzo.
would have been a shame if he retired. i really look forward to next year. its a shame casey,jorge and dani have not been there earlier to challange him!
I think Rossi had good kit but the early stats are scary.125 2nd first year then champ same in 250 then same in 500 thats incredible really.
Joined Feb 2009
3K Posts | 2+
siebenbürgen süße heimat!
agreed,one of the all time greats for sure
pedrosas numbers in the smaller classes don't look too bad either
pedrosas numbers in the smaller classes don't look too bad either
That first year on a 500 was awsome it through him down the road a bit but he mastered it quick enough to win races on and then the next year he won 11 races and the title.
Joined Oct 2007
4K Posts | 744+
Tuscany, Italy
If he had retired in 2010, he would have already outclassed those of the previous and his own generation (Biaggi, Capirossi, Barros, Gibernau, Melandri etc.) and also beaten the best of the new generation (Stoner and Lorenzo, and Pedro and Hayden for good measure) although these also managed to beat him in return. But his stats would have remained frightening, for those who care about stats.
I personally do not think that Lorenzo and Stoner would have been better than Rossi (or as good as they are now) had they been born earlier and raced in the premier class in 2000-2005; belonging to the next generation has certain advantages, like having a Valentino setting the markers for you. They grew up looking at him and wishing they could beat him one day. OK, Lorenzo now says his model was Biaggi but I do not really believe him.
Joined Oct 2006
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Your Mom's House
Those detractors wouldn't have had overwhelming blatant evidence (as if SNS weren't enough) to point to when we argued some of it was a facade. Now we do.
Joined Apr 2008
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Out of Nowhere
Ago most definitely - largely due to his determination to stay on good relations with The Count, unlike Hailwood who refused to pander to his eccentricity and appalling rudeness.
Thats what happens when you have to keep up the pace, as opposed to when your only worry is staying ahead of the first CRTs, which is the normal circumstance for VR. Ah, what a difference of 'having the benefit of set up while others did not' and actually trying makes.
That has been my impression for a big part of this season.
OK,there were no Repsol Hondas to beat at Misano,Ducati tested at the track before raceweekend.Spies I don't count.He was probarbly cruising around waiting for the bike to fall into two pieces or something,just trying to finish the race.I don't blame him.
But this time he was ahead of Dovi.Aragon might be different.We'll see.
Joined Sep 2006
3K Posts | 4+
Leading
you might wanna check those results again.Thats what happens when you have to keep up the pace, as opposed to when your only worry is staying ahead of the first CRTs, which is the normal circumstance for VR. Ah, what a difference of 'having the benefit of set up while others did not' and actually trying makes.
Joined Jan 2011
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The North!
Joined Oct 2007
4K Posts | 744+
Tuscany, Italy
True.
And Hailwood got close to becoming champion also on that beast of an Honda 500 IL4 that other riders couldn't ride...
Then the Jap manufacturers withdrew for a few years leaving Ago and MV alone against the Norton Manxes and the Aermacchis. That's why Mike is at the top of my favorite riders list, while Ago is not there (although he has been a great rider no doubt, capable of winning the first 500 title for a Japanese factory and also to win his very last race, back on the MV against the 2-strokers).
Doohan and Rossi enjoyed the best machinery but they always had competitors on the same level of equipment.
Joined Oct 2007
4K Posts | 744+
Tuscany, Italy
Those detractors wouldn't have had overwhelming blatant evidence (as if SNS weren't enough) to point to when we argued some of it was a facade. Now we do.
Jum, you do not need any so called evidence to confirm any of your ideas. They are fueled by the pure spirit that doesn't need any human proof.
Joined Sep 2006
3K Posts | 4+
Leading
Pure human spirit, Absinthe.Jum, you do not need any so called evidence to confirm any of your ideas. They are fueled by the pure spirit that doesn't need any human proof.
Joined Jun 2007
3K Posts | 309+
UK
I think Ducati left Cal a little angry so I would not see him be wiling to sign for them......unless he gets a lot of leverage to get his way over them and the other riders in the Ducati group....
well he beat stoner and even lorenzo with same equipment, and he was older too.. cant think of him being very much in trouble in the past
the only way to become better at chess for example, is to play with better and more experienced players than you. and then one day surpass them
i believe eventually the young boys in moto2 will get even better than dani/casey/jorge that have become faster than valentino... its just natural
