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Rossi's Legacy Tainted

The current bike may only be good enough for 7th place, but the future Ducati is NIcky's not Rossi's pig....

Convenient. Apparently, that's not the way it worked when Vale took over from Casey when it was all the previous incumbents fault - and to some on here - it still is.
 
A good point - while Rossi and JB are being panned for failing to turn Ducati around, the incumbent that has been there for most of four years is given a pass...



So does that make it official - Hayden is crap at development?



That would have to be based on the assumption that they listen to anything he says. After all... it is logical to assume that Ducati has been taking their cues from Rossi and Burgess (who they paid so handsomely) , and before that Stoner - not the #2 rider. In all events I am of the school of thought that says they're riders who give feedback, not engineers.
 
That would have to be based on the assumption that they listen to anything he says. After all... it is logical to assume that Ducati has been taking their cues from Rossi and Burgess (who they paid so handsomely) , and before that Stoner - not the #2 rider. In all events I am of the school of thought that says they're riders who give feedback, not engineers.



I agree - but certain riders command greater credence
 
Convenient. Apparently, that's not the way it worked when Vale took over from Casey when it was all the previous incumbents fault - and to some on here - it still is.

The Duc is a pig...and it is worse now than before....that is all down to Rossi's input....the improvement made and decent result at Misano, are also Rossi's doing.....but going forward, as has already been said on Eurosport and BBC, Rossi will not test or have any input to the development of the 2013 Ducati....

The 2013 Ducati early input is the responsibility Nicky alone for now....my view is the bike wont improve at all, until Ducati decide if they are going to listen to the European or the Americans riders.....cause both cant be right given the SBK vs 250/Moto2 riding styles of their riders.....
 
The Duc is a pig...and it is worse now than before....that is all down to Rossi's input....the improvement made and decent result at Misano, are also Rossi's doing.....but going forward, as has already been said on Eurosport and BBC, Rossi will not test or have any input to the development of the 2013 Ducati....

The 2013 Ducati early input is the responsibility Nicky alone for now....my view is the bike wont improve at all, until Ducati decide if they are going to listen to the European or the Americans riders.....cause both cant be right given the SBK vs 250/Moto2 riding styles of their riders.....



Both Nicky and Dovi have a dirt and mx pedigree respectively
 
Both Nicky and Dovi have a dirt and mx pedigree respectively

Good point....but do you think their styles are similar enough to lend themselves toward 1 positive direction for Ducati to follow?

And what about Spies and Iannone's styles added into the mix of development direction?



I feel Ducati made a mistake by hiring these 4 guys....the should have taken 4 SBK rider or 4 250/Moto2 riders....not a mix....
 
That's the conundrum that Ducati faces with riders styles. If you take a look at the Yamaha, technically they have that mix of riders now. Dovi and Lorenzo are 250GP riders, Spies and Crutchlow SBK riders. All 4 have proven they can be fast on that bike. If Ducati can somehow find a neautral bike like Yamaha has and each rider sets it up to their liking they'll be good. With that being said, do I think Ducati can do that? No. Can Audi help them do that? I don't know?
 
That's the conundrum that Ducati faces with riders styles. If you take a look at the Yamaha, technically they have that mix of riders now. Dovi and Lorenzo are 250GP riders, Spies and Crutchlow SBK riders. All 4 have proven they can be fast on that bike. If Ducati can somehow find a neautral bike like Yamaha has and each rider sets it up to their liking they'll be good. With that being said, do I think Ducati can do that? No. Can Audi help them do that? I don't know?



Yamaha seems to be based around what JLo needs mostly, and Dovi can make the most of it as well being a 250 rider......Cal seem to have pushed the yamaha to suit his style (even Dovi said he was surprised Cal rides the M1 like a WSBK bike).....Spies hasnt done much at all with it, so his results cant be seen as successful....

I think Ducati would like to think they can adapt to make a better neutral bike that works for all, but so far they have failed with Rossi and Hayden....

Audi may help but i doubt it....more money doesnt equal results...it just mean more budget for more mistakes....especially if they get input from riders with very different needs in riding.....
 
I agree - but certain riders command greater credence



Agree. It only makes sense that Ducati would be taking their cues from Stoner who gave them so many victories

and Rossi who has a breadth of experience coupled with multiple world championships. My only point was that

blame for lack of progress with the bike should not be foisted on Nicky. He has seemed (by no will of his own)

to be largely along for the ride.
 
Agree. It only makes sense that Ducati would be taking their cues from Stoner who gave them so many victories

and Rossi who has a breadth of experience coupled with multiple world championships. My only point was that

blame for lack of progress with the bike should not be foisted on Nicky. He has seemed (by no will of his own)

to be largely along for the ride.

Ducati's woes are not down to Nicky.....



Rossi is responsible for the current pig bike the Ducati is....including it most recent success at Misano...



The next generation of Ducati's and their woes / success is down to Nicky though....he has been there longest and is most experienced....so he must be their number rider going into 2013....and if he isn't then he shouldn't be on the factory team anymore...
 
If Ducati don't come out and state thier #1 rider is Nicky, we can't assume Ducati is in fact taking Nicky's suggestions. I personally think Ducati will be listening to Dovi with his recent experience on the Honda and Yamaha coupled with the fact he's Italian and there is no language barrier.

The ball is in Ducati's court, what they choose to do with it is up to them.
 
Ducati's woes are not down to Nicky.....



Rossi is responsible for the current pig bike the Ducati is....including it most recent success at Misano...



The next generation of Ducati's and their woes / success is down to Nicky though....he has been there longest and is most experienced....so he must be their number rider going into 2013....and if he isn't then he shouldn't be on the factory team anymore...



That quite hasn't been the logic by the factories though, has it? In 07, HRC developed around the newest factory rider, the one that had not recently won the championship. In 2010, the Italian factory again went with their newest rider, moving heaven and earth. Why are you so sure they would go with your logic in 2013? I think Nicky was resigned because of circumstance, not because they appreciated his services. They were willing to boot Nicky while they waited for VR's superagent to broker deals. I mean, how could Ducati know right, as the meetings with Yamaha were behind their backs and all. Once Spies declared he was gone, the cat was out of the bag, as it became rather clear that space was being made for VR's return.
 
That quite hasn't been the logic by the factories though, has it? In 07, HRC developed around the newest factory rider, the one that had not recently won the championship. In 2010, the Italian factory again went with their newest rider, moving heaven and earth. Why are you so sure they would go with your logic in 2013? I think Nicky was resigned because of circumstance, not because they appreciated his services. They were willing to boot Nicky while they waited for VR's superagent to broker deals. I mean, how could Ducati know right, as the meetings with Yamaha were behind their backs and all. Once Spies declared he was gone, the cat was out of the bag, as it became rather clear that space was being made for VR's return.

You are right....

and you have to ask then why is Nicky still sticking around or even got the contract over Cal....well perhaps the superagent was making sure at least 1 American stuck around, or audi looked at the Ducati sales figures by country and thought we need to keep him and we'll Ben as well...

If this is the case then nicky is riding for the money and not the title....which is a bit of sham really....

however, if Nicky is number 1 at Ducati but not their longer term future as i suspect then 2013 starts now......and ...if Hayden doesnt perform in 2013 to the level expected by Audi then either BenS or Iannone takes his job in 2014....then what does Nicky do? Retire or go to Pramac or worse takes Colin's current ride...

My point is that Nicky is the senior ducati rider, and as such Ducati should expect him to lead the way...
 
In my mind I have always attributed Ducati's change to big bang being down to Hayden's feedback. Mainly due to them back then realising they needed to make a bike others could ride. Power delivery has always been the biggest complaint from all the riders and the switch from screamer to big bang is surely all about power delivery.
 
Dovi will surely be the No.1 at Ducati next year

If that is the case....then 2013 is Nicky's last 'pass' year....



I am now starting to think that Ducaudi will make a big play for Bradl next year in preparation for in 2014....and since all the other factory team seat are taken for the next 2 years.....unless of course Suzuki or Kawasaki return, or BMW makes the leap in.....if Bradl decides the Duc still sucks then BS or Iannone gets the ride...



2014 Bradl and Dovi on the Ducati factory squad....my prediction!
 
If that is the case....then 2013 is Nicky's last 'pass' year....



I am now starting to think that Ducaudi will make a big play for Bradl next year in preparation for in 2014....and since all the other factory team seat are taken for the next 2 years.....unless of course Suzuki or Kawasaki return, or BMW makes the leap in.....if Bradl decides the Duc still sucks then BS or Iannone gets the ride...



2014 Bradl and Dovi on the Ducati factory squad....my prediction!



Agreed as long as its as competitive as Hon/Yam with all riders or he will never give up HRC this early in his career for a bike he may not be able to master and for that to happen in one season Ducati have some serious work to do.Im still thinking Rossi's second was more down to circumstance than a massive leap forward but i hope im wrong,we will see soon.
 
Agreed as long as its as competitive as Hon/Yam with all riders or he will never give up HRC this early in his career for a bike he may not be able to master and for that to happen in one season Ducati have some serious work to do.Im still thinking Rossi's second was more down to circumstance than a massive leap forward but i hope im wrong,we will see soon.



I agree with the bolded....and if Nicky is not the way forward nor is Ben Spies for the development of the Ducati.....then expect 2013 to be a long year for them....
 
I don't know how massive the leap forward is, but I think there has been a leap forward. The bike looked much better.
 

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