Lorenzo

I think there's a lot of thinking on hindsight here. I was not part of this forum before season's start but the general buzz when Lorenzo signed with Honda was very positive.

Segfault said:

Lorenzo back to Ducati?

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Be careful with that> https://www.gpone.com/en/2019/06/17/motogp/pernat-marquez-is-craftier-than-rossi.html

Holypuck said:

You are not crazy, you are right.

Let's see what happens next.

About Rossi: he really was a class act towards Lorenzo yesterday, which I did not expect but appreciated. He even got mad at an Italian journalist on live TV as he was trying to ask him questions to make him say something negative against JL. He just told him to cut the ...., that there's no beef to be had between him and JL as these things happen.

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There is an old saying that goes like this: “With age comes wisdom, but sometimes age comes alone.”

by Oscar Wilde

Rossi seems to have drifter away from the latter this year. Lets hope he stays on path and accept life as it evolves

misfit said:

I think there's a lot of thinking on hindsight here. I was not part of this forum before season's start but the general buzz when Lorenzo signed with Honda was very positive.

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And in my opinion quite rightly. Honda got an Alien for a paltry €4,000,000 a year (Ducati €12,500,000).

Not only that but he had proven before his Aragon highside last year that he was still the Lorenzo of old on a bike they said he couldn't ride, when he pulled off a characteristic domination of Mugello around the time Ducati made it clear he was surplus to requirements.

There is no doubt in my mind that he will be on the pace by seasons end. Whether he will have the consistency to challenge Marc is another question entirely and I'm not confident Lorenzo can show that kind of podium frequency over an entire season.

evo9 said:

Be careful with that> https://www.gpone.com/en/2019/06/17/motogp/pernat-marquez-is-craftier-than-rossi.html

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Ah the Flavio Briatore of Motogp pipes up once again. Carlo Pernat I always take with a pinch of salt. Anyone that has riders under management (Iannone) has an agenda, and therefore shouldn't be taken too seriously.

evo9 said:

There is an old saying that goes like this: “With age comes wisdom, but sometimes age comes alone.”

by Oscar Wilde

Rossi seems to have drifter away from the latter this year. Lets hope he stays on path and accept life as it evolves

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There's no doubt he's mellowing and I think 2015's events had a lot to do with this.

Dovi, in his characteristic wisdom, did comment on this about Rossi in that he had to change his mindset to continue competing in the sport among the new 'guard'. He needed to and has understood that he's not at the centre anymore and he can't behave in the same way as before. It will not work.

ratdeal said:

Ah the Flavio Briatore of Motogp pipes up once again. Carlo Pernat I always take with a pinch of salt. Anyone that has riders under management (Iannone) has an agenda, and therefore shouldn't be taken too seriously.

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Pernat = National Enquirer

Segfault said:

I think it it has dawned to Rossi he will not get that elusive 10th.

I have to disagree with your diagnosis. Mine is as follows: Ah, now I have a nice excuse dropping out of championship. Why not earn a little credits as a nice guy and not to point the finger at Lorenzo.
And guess what, I see people falling for it, even here. :cold:

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If he didn't think he could win a tenth title he would not contest the championship.

He's weighing up the risk reward ratio and clearly believes any potential reputational damage is outweighed by his chances of winning another title.

All of this is dependent on Yamaha working out the wrinkles and if he didn't believe they could provide him with a winning bike eventually, he wouldn't line up on the grid.

To think otherwise is either misguided, misinformed or moronic.

I do believe Rossi still enjoys his racing will continue once he can challenge for podiums and race wins if his bike is quick. When he's feeling quick on the bike, he still tends to do well, although the victories are more difficult. A 10th title will come with the next solar eclipse!! He has more chance in my mind than Dovi does!!! I find myself feeling sorry to say that because I do like Dovi a lot.

Segfault said:

I think it it has dawned to Rossi he will not get that elusive 10th.

I have to disagree with your diagnosis. Mine is as follows: Ah, now I have a nice excuse dropping out of championship. Why not earn a little credits as a nice guy and not to point the finger at Lorenzo.
And guess what, I see people falling for it, even here. :cold:

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I agree with you, his chances are diminishing, but you also state;

"he can challenge for podiums and race wins if his bike is quick."

You also state;

"He has more chance in my mind than Dovi does!!!"

So he has more chance of winning the championship than the man who has come 2nd in the last 2 years. And he can also challenge for wins and podiums if he has the right equipment.

So I'm confused. Has he given up on the chance to win a 10th title, and is he riding around to gain "credits" as you put it?

Or do you think he still has the self belief and the quality as a rider to challenge for top honours?

I'm not flaming you here, just looking for clarity as your last 2 statements massively contradict each other.

No worries ratdeal. I don't feel flamed and the apparent conflict is there.

Dovi and Rossi are riding for different teams. They are riding different bikes. After watching what JL did with the Ducati last year when he managed to make it work, Dovi's lacking that bit extra in pace showed up. I do believe the Ducati is currently a very good bike and that with an 'alien' as pilot, they would be enjoying better results especially on their 'off days'.

My point is, you reckon Rossi is past it and doesnt believe in his own mind he can never win another title. But on the other hand, you believe he has a better chance to win the title than Dovi, vice champion for the last two years, which by definition suggests he has the best chance of winning of all Marc's challengers?

Just for clarity, I agree I don't think Rossi can win another title but Valentino certainly believes he can, and fair play to him. I haven't won 9 world championships.

I also believe Dovi hasn't got the ultimate pace to challenge for a title.

If anything I think Marc has this season sewn up, but next year Lorenzo may well pose a problem to Marc. A problem, but one that Marc is more than capable of surmounting.

ratdeal said:

If he didn't think he could win a tenth title he would not contest the championship.

He's weighing up the risk reward ratio and clearly believes any potential reputational damage is outweighed by his chances of winning another title.

All of this is dependent on Yamaha working out the wrinkles and if he didn't believe they could provide him with a winning bike eventually, he wouldn't line up on the grid.

To think otherwise is either misguided, misinformed or moronic.

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Hmmm . . . I reckon he's realistic enough to know the odds, barring the death of Marquez, Dovizioso, Rins and Petrucci next week, are ridiculously small. He's signed a contract and will honor it. He's like many others who've come before him, in that he's been racing since he was a little kid and knows no other life. People become habituated to the lifestyle, the traveling, the media attention, the camaraderie with the crew, the adoration of the fans etc etc. It's like guys who've been to Iraq or Afghanistan and continually return because they're addicted to the adrenaline and find "normal life' stateside to be flat and dull. He's probably bored shitless in the off season. He knows there's no tenth championship. He's just essentially hanging out and waiting to collect his gold watch. That attachment to the drama and the glamor and the company of other riders, the only other beings in the world who really understand and can share that experience means is a powerful one. Why else do guys like Kenny Roberts fly half-way across the planet to go to a race, and then spend 99 percent of their time sitting in the garage hanging with their peers? They ain't there to see the race. They want to smell the heat and gas and excitement, the hot-and-cold free range ..... and big money and celebrities and powerful, influential people.

ratdeal said:

My point is, you reckon Rossi is past it and doesnt believe in his own mind he can never win another title. But on the other hand, you believe he has a better chance to win the title than Dovi, vice champion for the last two years, which by definition suggests he has the best chance of winning of all Marc's challengers?

Just for clarity, I agree I don't think Rossi can win another title but Valentino certainly believes he can, and fair play to him. I haven't won 9 world championships.

I also believe Dovi hasn't got the ultimate pace to challenge for a title.

If anything I think Marc has this season sewn up, but next year Lorenzo may well pose a problem to Marc. A problem, but one that Marc is more than capable of surmounting.

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I think he's past his peak and likely knows this. Despite this, I still think he's still the better rider than Dovi. Dovi challenged for the title because of the bike he's riding. The Yamaha hasn't been up to the snuff for the last couple seasons. Like Dovi, Rossi would need a dominant bike to have a chance at taking the title home

misfit said:

I think he's past his peak and likely knows this. Despite this, I still think he's still the better rider than Dovi. Dovi challenged for the title because of the bike he's riding. The Yamaha hasn't been up to the snuff for the last couple seasons. Like Dovi, Rossi would need a dominant bike to have a chance at taking the title home

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I couldn't agree more. Rossi clearly knows his best years are behind him, but for sure he still believes if the stars align he might just beat Marc.

In my opinion, there may just be a championship winner or two in the field, but to really challenge Marc in his prime it will take a new talent.

Rins and Fabio look like they might just have the talent, belief and tenacity in the current field, however I feel the next big thing is going to come from a junior class.

misfit said:

I think he's past his peak and likely knows this. Despite this, I still think he's still the better rider than Dovi. Dovi challenged for the title because of the bike he's riding. The Yamaha hasn't been up to the snuff for the last couple seasons. Like Dovi, Rossi would need a dominant bike to have a chance at taking the title home

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I agree with the general concept but not with some things you say.

Rossi is racing because he enjoys it and on that I can't blame him. Of course he needs some "fire" to be competitive but he knows himself he most likely will not get that infamous 10th title.

I do think the Yamaha is holding him back a little but I also do think with a fully competitive bike he'd fight for podiums more often, prolly get a win here and there but that would be it.

While (referring also to some of your posts before this one) it is not debatable who's the best rider between Rossi and Dovizioso (9 titles against 1) I disagree about what you say about Dovi and the Ducati.

Dovizioso is basically the only rider who has been capable of beating Marquez in direct "combat" and/or to keep up with him on several occasions. The bike DID help him for sure but it wasn't the only reason.

I recall JL having quite the battle with MM last year, I think in Austria, and it was JL that came out on top. When JL had that Ducati 'purring', he was doing better than Dovi.