Hayden

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racejumkie @ Jan 30 2007, 08:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Many of my postings have not been "mindless cheerleading" for my guys, but rather it has been responding to those trying to show that his championship was gained by unsavory means that so many continue to try and tarnish. But it’s the way you do it, that I characterize as the "mindless cheerleading". Because most of it is always characterized by "luck" or some variation; in relation to Rossi. In other words, you “cheer” for your boy by degrading Hayden. And the word "consistency" is thrown around as if that is a bad thing. I don't believe I have ever started a thread to “mindlessly” praise Hayden, but I have seen many that have been started to "mindlessly" belittle his accomplishments. (As thinly veiled attempts to bring up the issue). It’s all simply "sour grapes".

But it’s rebuffed by how Rossi actually is, a fairly gracious competitor.

In particular, that Rossi is a great rider; I have never said anything different.
I believe he will want to regain the title and go out on top to pursue other interests. I’m not gonna count him out, unlike so many that have counted out Hayden, but I’m not gonna give him the title just yet, as so many have already. But I will say that Rossi will be again the man to beat. That’s called respect.

Since this thread is about Hayden. It seems no matter what he does or did; some people will still always chalk up this season to “luck” (either his good luck or Rossi’s poor luck). People bring up his Laguna wins as condescending, but never mention that this is due to experience on this track, exactly how Rossi and the other boys have had more experience on the European tracks. Of course Rossi etal will win on European track, after-all they are all their “home” tracks.
Like I said, it doesn’t matter, we will always have the mindless cheerleading and cult following for Rossi, no matter who wins the championship. Hayden has shown he has both the speed and mental character to be a World Champion, and he will be a force to be reckoned with this year.
Once again the voice of reason emerges through the cracks in the 'cheerleaders' (not my words) arguements.

Perhaps folk will finally take note of the home track advantage thing, and put the arguement to rest. Nicky has one opportunity all year to take advantage of home track knowledge. So does every other rider throughout the year, so what is your point when knocking Nicky for winning Laguna? Did he not also beat Colin, Jnr and Hopper? Also, with most other riders having emerged through the 125 and 250 scene, then do they not have a knowledge advantage at at least 9 European circuits, and maybe one or two others. Can we dismiss all of Valentino's victories over Nicky in Europe. If all is fair in the world, then surely we can.
It really does smack of sour grapes, which is a bloody shame because as Big J says, Rossi actually is, a fairly gracious competitor.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basspete @ Jan 30 2007, 11:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>btw Jumkie, I'm ok, but when the ... is 17 years old, male, wearing a baseball cap and driving a VW, its not a good thing.

Makes you think tho, a bashed in door on the car and me and my girlfriend ok, but Ive Id been on my bike..........

Doesn't bear thinking about, fight the real enemy guys!!

Stupid twats cost lives.

Pete
That's not pleasant for you Pete. Stupid twats do cost lives, glad you're both OK.
Out of interest, did you bang your fists into the steering wheel, the gravel, or the kid!!!!!!
Love and Peace
Dave.
Talking of accidents, have you all seen this?
Man hits guard rail and flips end over end over that culvert. Do you think he had an angel on his shoulder? Check out the second picture!!
1176:attachment]
1177:attachment]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Burky @ Jan 30 2007, 12:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Once again the voice of reason emerges through the cracks in the 'cheerleaders' (not my words) arguements.

Perhaps folk will finally take note of the home track advantage thing, and put the arguement to rest. Nicky has one opportunity all year to take advantage of home track knowledge. So does every other rider throughout the year, so what is your point when knocking Nicky for winning Laguna? Did he not also beat Colin, Jnr and Hopper? Also, with most other riders having emerged through the 125 and 250 scene, then do they not have a knowledge advantage at at least 9 European circuits, and maybe one or two others. Can we dismiss all of Valentino's victories over Nicky in Europe. If all is fair in the world, then surely we can.
It really does smack of sour grapes, which is a bloody shame because as Big J says, Rossi actually is, a fairly gracious competitor.
That's not pleasant for you Pete. Stupid twats do cost lives, glad you're both OK.
Love and Peace
Dave.

Cheers Dave, appreciate that mate.

BTW, have you done any Paintings of MacKenzie in his GP or BSB days?

Pete


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basspete @ Jan 30 2007, 12:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Cheers Dave, appreciate that mate.

BTW, have you done any Paintings of MacKenzie in his GP or BSB days?

Pete


God, Ive just read what I wrote about oor bump in the car, I now know how Nicky felt, going around a corner quite the thing, when a daft kid comes straight into me.

Pete

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Burky @ Jan 30 2007, 12:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Once again the voice of reason emerges through the cracks in the 'cheerleaders' (not my words) arguements.

Perhaps folk will finally take note of the home track advantage thing, and put the arguement to rest. Nicky has one opportunity all year to take advantage of home track knowledge. So does every other rider throughout the year, so what is your point when knocking Nicky for winning Laguna? Did he not also beat Colin, Jnr and Hopper? Also, with most other riders having emerged through the 125 and 250 scene, then do they not have a knowledge advantage at at least 9 European circuits, and maybe one or two others. Can we dismiss all of Valentino's victories over Nicky in Europe. If all is fair in the world, then surely we can.
It really does smack of sour grapes, which is a bloody shame because as Big J says, Rossi actually is, a fairly gracious competitor.
That's not pleasant for you Pete. Stupid twats do cost lives, glad you're both OK.
Out of interest, did you bang your fists into the steering wheel, the gravel, or the kid!!!!!!
Love and Peace



None of the above but all the options crossed my mind!

Pete


Dave.
Talking of accidents, have you all seen this?
Man hits guard rail and flips end over end over that culvert. Do you think he had an angel on his shoulder? Check out the second picture!!
1176:attachment]
1177:attachment]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basspete @ Jan 30 2007, 12:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Cheers Dave, appreciate that mate.

BTW, have you done any Paintings of MacKenzie in his GP or BSB days?

Pete
God, Ive just read what I wrote about oor bump in the car, I now know how Nicky felt, going around a corner quite the thing, when a daft kid comes straight into me.

Pete
, was he a little bloke????
I've just attached a couple of pics in my last post, they'll make you see the bright side!!! I've put them in as a bitmap, maybe some pc boffin can correct that for me so that they show up on the forum.
Neil MacKenzie? No, I'm afraid not. I've only been doing bikes for a couple of years, most before was F1 or WRC. One day maybe.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basspete @ Jan 30 2007, 12:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Cheers Dave, appreciate that mate.

BTW, have you done any Paintings of MacKenzie in his GP or BSB days?

Pete
God, Ive just read what I wrote about oor bump in the car, I now know how Nicky felt, going around a corner quite the thing, when a daft kid comes straight into me.

Pete

An angel on his shoulder, and a mess in his undies I think!

Pete

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Jan 29 2007, 07:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Lets not forget who is responsible for setting up this bike? Its not like it was someone elses fault he had no race setup.

And whats all this talk of Nicky not beating Rossi in a straight fight? The only person who did beat him was Elias, and he obviously isn't a better rider than rossi. I have no trouble saying who was the more deserving champion because i have the gift of being able to read two numbers and working out which is biggger (championship points).

My point is, Hayden is a fast and consistent rider, he is determined as ever and he is still improving. Honda will obviously be up to speed in no time and Afterall we are talking about the current world champion. I'm not saying its going to be easy, Rossi is obviously going to be a real pain in his .... And i don't doubt that Pedrosa is going to be the other strong guy. But to win the title you need to make no mistakes and be fast every weekend, no matter what the weather does and regardless of setup troubles, injuries, tracks and tires. recently only Rossi and Hayden have shown they can do that. (I don't expect to see mistakes from Rossi very often)

congratulations im thrilled your able to do the maths xx


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basspete @ Jan 29 2007, 09:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Ok Jumkie, use your own name please.

Vale has had his day? Thats a big statement to back up. I'll be very surprised if he has had his day, but you do make a valid point , it's not just about Hayden, it's more about the guys who can actually beat Rossi head to head in a race.

I don't think you can start calling time on Rossi's career at this time. If myself or Roger made a similar statement, then it would be "mindless cheerleading" as it is, It sounds like wishful thinking.
If that prediction comes true, I will take my hat off to you, but if it's not, then I'm afraid to use your friend Jumkie's words you are "making a fool of yourself." because as you rightly say, its a bold statement.

It will be interesting to hear what you have to say about it this time next year.

Pete

What the hell... i agree how can people say vale has had his day???? One below average season + people right him off????? Its madness!!! Lets not forget vale didnt finish at least 3 races had horrific problems AND only got minimal points in other races. AND before you all start moaning im not saying he should have the title but to finish 5 points off it proves his abilities as a rider.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Jan 30 2007, 12:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I am amused by how Rossi fans like to blame evry single one of Rossi's problems on tyre faliure. I havn't got a link, but i remember seeing interviews in tv coverage where it was mentioned that the accident was a rossi mistake. And have not heard any one person ever try to suggest it was a tyre faliure, well untill now. Where did u get this idea i might ask

Also worth mentioning that he didn't actually dnf the race, he finished 8th.

yes the tyre blowing up...wonder what that was

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VHMP01 @ Jan 30 2007, 03:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>When was he at the front last season?

After all he won by consistency, not by pushing the front end in most races. Laguna, yes. Assen also, second for 16 laps and first in the last two.


That was depressing to watch poor Edwards

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tinks @ Jan 30 2007, 01:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>yes the tyre blowing up...wonder what that was
That was depressing to watch poor Edwards

i think there was some confusion here. We were discussing Rossi's Assen Practice crash, but details of the China tire issue, have crept in. But it is worht mentionning that i think Rossi is slightly accountable for htis since Michelin examined the tire in question and found nothing faulty or abnormal about it.

Anyways, we seem to be going round in circles. I think it's be nice if the Rossi fans would take the time to accept that Hayden is a Very skilled rider, with all the qualitities he needs to be a worthy world champion. And i think beating Rossi to it makes it a little bit more special.

Us Hayden fans have of course got our bias too, but did you hear us calling Rossi an unworthy champion in 03, 04 and 05?? i think not. The best points on here are definately coming from the people who stay fair to both riders despite our favorites.

This thread is about Nicky afterall, and i say it would be very silly to count him out for next year, hes got what it takes to win another title, i expect him to be the strongest rider who isn't italian, and maybe only Rossi can take it too him.

As for Rossi, you would be a fool to count him out, its Rossi afterall. But we may have already seen is best, that is a possibility. But rossi beyond his peak may still be better than many other riders, and perhaps even all of them.

Was China the race where Rossi's tyre chunked? My memory is failing me.

Indeed it was

I can't see how Michelin won't take the blame for that, I mean there was a chunk missing from his tyre! I mean, sure Rossi might have been pushing hard, but you just don't wear a tyre in that pattern. That's why I think if Bridgestone had the durablilty to match Michelin, they'd be a better tyre. They better Michelin in every other facet, but tyre wear is most important. If Michelin don't sort it out, they're gonna stay second best

Do you think the companies F1 efforts (Michelin pulling out and leaving Bridgesgtone as single supplier) will have nay effect on what they can do. Or how about that fact that Michelin have less bikes to supply.

LOOOOOKK to all Hayden fans next season if Hayden does a truely stunnin race at somehwere other than Laguna then I will be less anti-hayden + i will eat my words regarding his consistency championship <3 x

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tinks @ Jan 30 2007, 05:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>LOOOOOKK to all Hayden fans next season if Hayden does a truely stunnin race at somehwere other than Laguna then I will be less anti-hayden + i will eat my words regarding his consistency championship <3 x
be very carful what you say you will eat on this forum, the .......s will hold you to it,seem to remember someone else making that mistake a while back

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Burky @ Jan 30 2007, 04:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Out of interest, did you bang your fists into the steering wheel, the gravel, or the kid!!!!!!
Very funny. Hey Pete, are you feeling alittle more sympathetic to Hayden?
Good thing you weren't on your bike buddy (and good thing that kid wasn't going 100+).



<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basspete @ Jan 30 2007, 03:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>You are the one who got all excited in the Schwantz thread because you could not admit you had misread my post!
^^^this is called "spin".


I distinctly remember it was you who apologized to Tom for "misreading my post", I can get your quote if you like...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (basspete @ Jan 30 2007, 03:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I dont claim to own the fountain of knowledge, but I dont like having my opinions dismissed as cheerleading by anyone. But, as Ive said before, Ive been following GP bike racing for a long time, and I do know a bit about it. If I post an arguement or a post, then it is from what I have learned over the years, not a quick surf to Google, and quickly glean some information, and scurry back.
What makes you think you are the only one who has followed GP and "us" only getting our info from google? This is why I said you claim to own the "knowledge" bin, what, can't we have knowledge too without you condescending that we have "scurried" to get the knowledge.


Anyway, pete, whatever. I still like you (not really that much). I’m very glad to hear that despite that kid doing a “pedrosa” on you and your girl, that you are all-right. All joking and bashing aside.

Besides, I would have really missed having somebody to thrash around.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Burky @ Jan 30 2007, 04:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Perhaps folk will finally take note of the home track advantage thing, and put the arguement to rest. Nicky has one opportunity all year to take advantage of home track knowledge. So does every other rider throughout the year, so what is your point when knocking Nicky for winning Laguna? Did he not also beat Colin, Jnr and Hopper? Also, with most other riders having emerged through the 125 and 250 scene, then do they not have a knowledge advantage at at least 9 European circuits, and maybe one or two others. Can we dismiss all of Valentino's victories over Nicky in Europe. If all is fair in the world, then surely we can.
It really does smack of sour grapes, which is a bloody shame because as Big J says, Rossi actually is, a fairly gracious competitor.
Balance is again restored to the universe.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tinks @ Jan 30 2007, 09:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>LOOOOOKK to all Hayden fans next season if Hayden does a truely stunnin race at somehwere other than Laguna then I will be less anti-hayden + i will eat my words regarding his consistency championship <3 x
Well judging from how his win in Assen was characterized, (which last time I checked in not in the US) I'm not really gonna believe you just yet. But that is a start tinks, and I appreciate that.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Jan 31 2007, 03:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Do you think the companies F1 efforts (Michelin pulling out and leaving Bridgesgtone as single supplier) will have nay effect on what they can do. Or how about that fact that Michelin have less bikes to supply.

It could help Michelin, but Bridgestone is a bigger company, overall, you think they could handle thier end, both in F1 and MotoGP. Speaking of F1, I'm not a real big follower but arent the bulk Michelin's engineers more likely to move to Bridgestone and stay in F1 than move to MotoGP? I suppose it still frees up thier other recourses to MotoGP if Michelin are willing to put in the extra funds, and they might not be, they are still the leading tyre after all. They may be able to hold off Bridgestone with their current infrastructure. They also have an advantage in the fact that most of the races are in Eurpoe, close to thier factory and at tracks they can easily access to get data from. Similar to Bridgestone's advantages in Asia. Then there's the fact that they still supply the majority of the front runners, including most of the Hondas, prticularly the factory team and the factory Yamahas. That's an impressive armada and it's a tough line up for Bridgestone to beat.

Do not get me wrong either, Hayden deserve the Championship. I do like stats, they orientate us of what is going on, but they are not commandments written in stone though… However, I have said and confirm that Hayden's Title was based on consistency. Here I go again with stats, sorry…

Hayden’s upfront laps:
Qatar = 1 (lap 19).
Assen = 2 (lap 25 & 26) Winner.
Sachsenring = 10 (from lap 1 to lap 10).
Laguna Seca = 16 (from lap 17 to lap 32) Winner.
Total 29 in 17 races with two wins.

Baylis’ upfront laps:
Ricardo Tormo = 30 (all of them).
Total 30 in 1 race with one win.


PD. Hayden rode conservatively and got the Championship!

Not many people can be inconsistant and win a world title. I'd like some examples of when they have been (not from the old days where bikes where expected to brake down and not all races counted).

To be the champion you must be fast consistently, and when things don't work, stay on the bike and still get points. Hayden and Rossi had the same number of podiums in 2006. The difference is, Hayden didn't .... up when things weren't going his way.

I agree, riding within your ability, yet fast enough to push for top spots is the key to consistency. And consistency wins championships.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tom @ Jan 31 2007, 12:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Not many people can be inconsistant and win a world title. I'd like some examples of when they have been (not from the old days where bikes where expected to brake down and not all races counted).

To be the champion you must be fast consistently, and when things don't work, stay on the bike and still get points. Hayden and Rossi had the same number of podiums in 2006. The difference is, Hayden didn't .... up when things weren't going his way.

thats so not true 5 more points like another 1 each from 5 races and vale would have been an inconsitent world champion

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (roger-m @ Jan 30 2007, 06:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>be very carful what you say you will eat on this forum, the .......s will hold you to it,seem to remember someone else making that mistake a while back

you know what your right lol!! I wil be nicer to hayden but this championship was still consistency so I cant really alter that

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tinks @ Jan 31 2007, 04:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>thats so not true 5 more points like another 1 each from 5 races and vale would have been an inconsitent world champion
That would have made him..........................................


........................................more consistant!!!!!

Ifs, buts etc.