Gran Premio Movistar de Aragón 2017

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Yes. Marquez' motivation is really something to behold - and VR only stoked the fire with the 2015 shenanigans.

And dare I suggest that a certain mass of yellow wearing minions, prone to boo and deride riders other than their god are somewhat maintaining that rage and focus, possibly even driving Marquez to be even better.

The Sepang shenanigans started what seems to still be burning greatly within, if the recent smackdown of the booing brigade is a guide (all IMO of course)
 
With Galbusera, Rossi generally outdid Lorenzo. On the other hand, Vinales has been clearly better than Rossi this year. I think Mav is better than Lorenzo.

More wins and more titles for Jorge vs Rossi even with Galubsera. Rossi was very definitely better than him in damp conditions, which were more frequent than is common particularly in 2015.

If Vinales had been able to continue on his original tyre sure your argument might well hold, but he has not looked the same since the withdrawal of that tyre and in all likelihood wouldn't be leading Rossi by much without Rossi's motocross injury. If Lorenzo had kept his preferred tyre last year things might have been different as well.
 
More wins and more titles for Jorge vs Rossi even with Galubsera. Rossi was very definitely better than him in damp conditions, which were more frequent than is common particularly in 2015.



If Vinales had been able to continue on his original tyre sure your argument might well hold, but he has not looked the same since the withdrawal of that tyre and in all likelihood wouldn't be leading Rossi by much without Rossi's motocross injury. If Lorenzo had kept his preferred tyre last year things might have been different as well.



Let’s not forget that Lorenzo was struggling to get over his 2013 shoulder injuries, having had more surgeries to remove the plate. It’s well documented that he had trouble with his leathers fitting properly due to putting on too much muscle after over developing his shoulders in an effort to get fit. He also had problems with damp patchy tracks as understandably he was fearful of crashing, following his horrendous Assen and Sachsenring crashes.
If Lorenzo had stayed at Yamaha I suspect he’d be now contesting the championship lead with Marquez.
 
I remember the international commentators saying at that moment "Pedrosa just removed a tear off from his visor". It seemed pretty clear to me Pedrosa was giving a big FU to Rossi about his questionable riding. The commentators did not want to discuss it.



BT Sports commentators said he was removing a tear off and the wind blew his arm back. Hodgson likened it to putting your arm out of the window of a moving car at 100mph.
I would have thought Dani would be likely to lose control or at least have a wobble if he wasn’t ready for his arm to move that high.
 
At the time I also thought it was a gesture to Rossi. I don't totally understand why Pedrosa had to go left when he knew Rossi was already drifting that way after the corner as they all do(I'm not saying Rossi did or didn't attempt to squeeze him out) surely once you get the drag it's easier to go on the right side?

I thought his move to stop Marquez passing which almost resulted in Marquez himself crashing and possibly taking Lorenzo with him was worse anyway. Rossi turned into the corner from almost dead in the middle.
 
At the time I also thought it was a gesture to Rossi. I don't totally understand why Pedrosa had to go left when he knew Rossi was already drifting that way after the corner as they all do(I'm not saying Rossi did or didn't attempt to squeeze him out) surely once you get the drag it's easier to go on the right side?

I thought his move to stop Marquez passing which almost resulted in Marquez himself crashing and possibly taking Lorenzo with him was worse anyway. Rossi turned into the corner from almost dead in the middle.

If Pedrosa passed on the right he would have put himself on the outside of the next corner. Pedro is making way to big of a deal for this. Any rider should attempt to block the inside. I've got to think thats why they are drifting left in the first place. This was a near racing incident, nothing more.
 
Peak Stoner against MM would have been epic...

Though not at Stoner's peak, Casey actually requested this titanic event! This apparently struck terror in the minds of Marc's handlers. I'm sure Marquez would have relished the challenge though.

If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.
 
Though not at Stoner's peak, Casey actually requested this titanic event! This apparently struck terror in the minds of Marc's handlers. I'm sure Marquez would have relished the challenge though.

If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.

I would love to see the evidence of that.
 
I would love to see the evidence of that.

It's true, Casey offered publically to sub for Pedrosa and Alzemora(sp?) put pressure on Nakamoto to veto it. I remember it well because I(like others) was super excited at the prospect of Stoner being back on the grid. This and the crash at Suzuka are reportedly the reason why Stoner is back at Ducati.
 
Watching Marc ride now is nothing like Rossi in his SNS heyday. Marc puts way more on the line every race. It will be very difficult for him to eclipse VR or make it to 10 riding the way he does and with the competition he faces. No forgone conclusion imo peeps forget he will face younger stronger riders. I didn't think I'd see another rider challenge Stoners speed for years and yet here Marquez is. I doubt boppers and therefore Dorna will ever support him they will both migrate to whoever team VR anoints successor to the emperor.

He's much less reckless than he was a few years ago. Fewer incidents of trading paint. Fewer dogfights. Much more race-long tail-gaiting followed by a well planned pass on the penultimate lap.

There were a few here who constantly mocked me, during MM's first season, when I said he would evolve. I submit, he's done that, and will continue to mature. He's spent so much time developing his capacity for knowing where the edge is and where it drops off, and people just assume that he'll always do that. I reckon he'll have enough data stored in his head that he won't need to take as much risk. We all know he's already a better rider than Rossi, and I think he can further surpass Rossi by going to a place where, like Rossi, his crashes are infrequent, where his risk factor will be more calculated toward a pragmatic long run strategy not based on the swinging-.... need to win every race.
 
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He's much less reckless than he was a few years ago. Fewer incidents of trading paint. Fewer dogfights. Much more race-long tail-gaiting followed by a well planned pass on the penultimate lap.

There were a few here who constantly mocked me, during MM's first season, when I said he would evolve. I submit, he's done that, and will continue to mature. He's spent so much time developing his capacity for knowing where the edge is and where it drops off, and people just assume that he'll always do that. I reckon he'll have enough data stored in his head that he won't need to take as much risk. We all know he's already a better rider than Rossi, and I think he can further surpass Rossi by going to a place where, like Rossi, his crashes are infrequent, where his risk factor will be more calculated toward a pragmatic long run strategy not based on the swinging-.... need to win every race.

I agree 100%.

Marc is getting smarter and smarter each year.

Yes he still crashes, but they are coming during the times when they are generally least damaging...FP and qualifying. Well qualifying can hurt, but as long as he sets one good time, if he is on the second row of the grid he will usually be okay for the race itself.

Looking at him in 2017 versus 2013, he is a completely different rider, and he has evolved by leaps and bounds. It's actually terrifying because while all of the riders have evolved, none have done so at a rate that would keep them neck and neck with Marc.
 
I agree 100%.

Marc is getting smarter and smarter each year.

Yes he still crashes, but they are coming during the times when they are generally least damaging...FP and qualifying. Well qualifying can hurt, but as long as he sets one good time, if he is on the second row of the grid he will usually be okay for the race itself.

Looking at him in 2017 versus 2013, he is a completely different rider, and he has evolved by leaps and bounds. It's actually terrifying because while all of the riders have evolved, none have done so at a rate that would keep them neck and neck with Marc.

If Yamaha sort out going awol in the latter half of the race he won't find it so 'easy' , Jorge closing in on the Ducati too, I think next season will see Marquez facing a stiffer test than this year.
 
If Yamaha sort out going awol in the latter half of the race he won't find it so 'easy' , Jorge closing in on the Ducati too, I think next season will see Marquez facing a stiffer test than this year.

Won't be any stiffer than what he faced in 2016; screamer engine with 2006 era electronics, wheel spin that made the bike look like it was bogged down in quicksand, and the worst front tire construct in the history of the 4-stroke era. ;)
 
He's much less reckless than he was a few years ago. Fewer incidents of trading paint. Fewer dogfights. Much more race-long tail-gaiting followed by a well planned pass on the penultimate lap.

There were a few here who constantly mocked me, during MM's first season, when I said he would evolve. I submit, he's done that, and will continue to mature. He's spent so much time developing his capacity for knowing where the edge is and where it drops off, and people just assume that he'll always do that. I reckon he'll have enough data stored in his head that he won't need to take as much risk. We all know he's already a better rider than Rossi, and I think he can further surpass Rossi by going to a place where, like Rossi, his crashes are infrequent, where his risk factor will be more calculated toward a pragmatic long run strategy not based on the swinging-.... need to win every race.

Agree - MM is very mature now in terms of strategy and knowing when to push during a race. His race IQ is fantastic.

The only issue is that, though he has astonishing skill in finding the limit, he still occasionally goes over.

Going over the limit can have huge consequences - even for an innocuous crash. Even a minor lowside can cause an unexpected injury. When you're on the ground so much, it's probably a matter of time...
 
More wins and more titles for Jorge vs Rossi even with Galubsera. Rossi was very definitely better than him in damp conditions, which were more frequent than is common particularly in 2015.
I was referring to championship standings - Rossi beat JL in 2014 and 2016, but JL beat him in 2015.

Also, since Galbusera, Rossi accrued many more points than JL.

If Vinales had been able to continue on his original tyre sure your argument might well hold, but he has not looked the same since the withdrawal of that tyre and in all likelihood wouldn't be leading Rossi by much without Rossi's motocross injury. If Lorenzo had kept his preferred tyre last year things might have been different as well.
Fair point.
 
Though not at Stoner's peak, Casey actually requested this titanic event! This apparently struck terror in the minds of Marc's handlers. I'm sure Marquez would have relished the challenge though.

If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.

What a sight that would've been. Wow. Same bikes, and probably the two fastest guys we've seen.
 
It's true, Casey offered publically to sub for Pedrosa and Alzemora(sp?) put pressure on Nakamoto to veto it. I remember it well because I(like others) was super excited at the prospect of Stoner being back on the grid. This and the crash at Suzuka are reportedly the reason why Stoner is back at Ducati.

Was it Alzamora? I didn't know who objected.
 
Was it Alzamora? I didn't know who objected.
There's a thread here where it was discussed in more detail. Don't quote me, because my memory is fuzzy on it, but I think a journalist suggested on social media that it was either Alzamora or Santi.

If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.
 

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