Gran Premio Movistar de Aragón 2017

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povol said:
Didnt Rossi irately flip off Biaggi for basically the same thing but at nowhere near the speed of yesterdays incident.
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Rossi basically retorted to Pedro, 'that's racing'. Which is something he wasn't saying at Phillip Island, Malaysia, and Valencia in other occasions. Rossi can brake check (LS) force them wide (Aragon) cease racing all together (Sep) 'that's racing'; but actual racing like Zarco at COTA, that's a rookie not respecting his elders. Normally a lame duck like Rossi yesterday would have been moved over unceremoniously, but since it was Rossi, everybody had to shield him by taking on greater risk to themselves when passing.

If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.
 
If it wasnt for the completely unusual Honda engine failure, this title race would be over. Marquez' performance since the summer break has been flat out dominant. At Aragon he was on a different level again. Last year he toyed with the field after almost coming off and falling back in the field around 5th, waited for some fuel to burn off, got a little heat in the tires and it was over. This year the race played out in similar fashion except for last year, he made pass after pass at 13-14 right before long back straight, this year virtually everyone of his moves came after setting himself up to have huge corner speed at 16-17. His speed through the last 2 big sweepers that lead to the run to the line was unreal. Honda has cracked the grip code for the time being with the current tire and electronics and it showed big time with the acceleration onto the long back straight wher he pulled the Ducati and everyone else on numerous occasions. From that point of the track to the finish line he was killing everyone, except for the other Honda. It would have been interesting had Pedro not got held up so long, but thats his MO for his career. His risk for reward meter is a little on the low side. Lorenzo is getting closer and closer if not Valencia, the opener in Qatar next year. Vinales again minimizing damage by being strong in the last half of the race compared his teammate who fades late in races, not just this one, cant blame the leg. Dovi had the kind of race he just couldnt have,more than likely cost him the slim chance he had at the title. Overall a very entertaining race, Rossi finished slightly better than i thought he would, i figured round 7th with Zarco and Crutchlow beating him. 3 long weeks till Motegi, glad they added extra race in the future, this is like another summer break.
 
AntG said:
Is this GP riders only?
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I was trying to stick to MotoGP rider with broken bones to avoid the retort of "that's different". But for fun we can play with others athletes from various sports making comeback.

Here one, not GP but Wsbk.

Injury: broken femur, multiple fractured vertebra.

Name the rider:

If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.
 
JohnnyKnockdown said:
Ginger or Maryanne?
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Dub's choice: MaryJane.

That's a better game.

Who do you prefer, Ginger or Mary Ann? Why?


I'll go first, Mary Ann.

Why? She may not have the glamour of a Monster girl, but she can cook, clean, work, contribute, and not cost you a fortune. She's the girl next door.

If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.
 
Jumkie said:
Dub's choice: MaryJane.

That's a better game.

Who do you prefer, Ginger or Mary Ann? Why?


I'll go first, Mary Ann.

Why? She may not have the glamour of a Monster girl, but she can cook, clean, work, contribute, and not cost you a fortune. She's the girl next door.

If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.
Click to expand...

Exactly. I like a girl thats not afraid to get dirty and take her work home with her..... like Motokitty. Every day is a happy ending
 
Jumkie said:
Dub's choice: MaryJane.

That's a better game.

Who do you prefer, Ginger or Mary Ann? Why?


I'll go first, Mary Ann.

Why? She may not have the glamour of a Monster girl, but she can cook, clean, work, contribute, and not cost you a fortune. She's the girl next door.

If you live in a glass house don't throw rocks.
Click to expand...

 
I prefer to talk about the actual race rather than engaging in mind-numbingly dull conversation such as accusing others of taking drugs because they don't care for their posts. It's ad hominem at it's worst, and serves no real purpose to discussing grand prix motorcycle racing.

Looking back on the 2017 season, the turning point of the year is going be the Austrian Grand Prix. Andrea Dovizioso may have left the Red Bull Ring as victor, but the reality was that HRC figured something out with the suspension and electronics package that has allowed them to destroy the Ducati Desmosedici horsepower advantage. Marc Marquez nearly beat the Ducati at a high horsepower acceleration circuit, the sort that hasn't favored the RC213V for 2 1/2 years since the fateful engine change for the 2015 campaign that resulted in 2 1/2 years of seeming endless futility with regards to cornering speeds and acceleration. Yesterday at the Motorland Aragon, the RC213V was coming out of corners with such force the Ducati was simply getting blown away down the back straight...no doubt partially an issue with the choice of soft rear Michelin. But it looked suspiciously like the worldbeater RCV Honda's of bygone years, and Marc was on the seemingly MIA hard/hard compound which had me wondering if hell froze over. I'm going to make the prediction that the season is effectively over. He simply had so much in reserve it looked like he was running a different race, and that includes even Dani Pedrosa too. We go to the HRC circuit of Motegi, the rider's circuit of Phillip Island, and then the heat of Malaysia in October, the only situation I can see anything going wrong is if MM bins it...always a consideration in fairness. That said, Malaysia will probably see him get his hard/hard combo in the heat unless it is a wet weather race which we know how those go for him, and I suspect he will be crowned world champion there.

The kid is just too good. It's really a shame Stoner retired, I do think Marquez would have beaten Stoner now. I loved him, but Marquez is just slowly becoming relentless in that mold of Doohan IMO. The race was quite thrilling, and he made some breathtaking saves, and overtakes. I was mesmerized by his corner entry into 16, and the corner speed he was carrying through that onto the start/finish straight. Must have been spectacular to see in person. Easily ride of the day.

While Rossi gets kudos for going out there, my runner up for ride of the day in the class was Aleix Espargaro on the Aprilia. He made the one mistake late in the race when he was closing down on Valentino and ran wide. My opinion is if he doesn't run wide there, we would have gotten a really great battle for P5 if nothing else. That Aprilia is really starting to look good at some of the circuits. Would be nice to see a top tier rider on the RS-GP to see what that thing could do. Maybe Marquez could go ride there in 2019? Jk. I do think Rossi's problem is as Jum mentioned, he doesn't manage the tires well anymore, and he is getting killed in the second half of the race when everyone else is managing them more appropriately in the first half. Other thing too is I do think it is age starting to catch up ever-so slightly. He probably could off-set that with slightly better tire management.

Lorenzo looked great as well. Main concern with him is the viability of the fairings. I feel like it is 50-50 that they get banned in the off-season, and then he would be right back at square one. But what might keep them in play is having a competitive Lorenzo ensures that we get a title battle since it's apparent Maverick Vinales is not the anointed one everyone thought he was, as I correctly predicted last year when he was signed.

2018 looks to be a Marquez-Lorenzo redux if things work out. Should be thrilling.

Too bad we have a break now. Perils of stretching the calendar to November.
 
JPSLotus said:
I prefer to talk about the actual race rather than engaging in mind-numbingly dull conversation such as accusing others of taking drugs because they don't care for their posts. It's ad hominem at it's worst, and serves no real purpose to discussing grand prix motorcycle racing.

Looking back on the 2017 season, the turning point of the year is going be the Austrian Grand Prix. Andrea Dovizioso may have left the Red Bull Ring as victor, but the reality was that HRC figured something out with the suspension and electronics package that has allowed them to destroy the Ducati Desmosedici horsepower advantage. Marc Marquez nearly beat the Ducati at a high horsepower acceleration circuit, the sort that hasn't favored the RC213V for 2 1/2 years since the fateful engine change for the 2015 campaign that resulted in 2 1/2 years of seeming endless futility with regards to cornering speeds and acceleration. Yesterday at the Motorland Aragon, the RC213V was coming out of corners with such force the Ducati was simply getting blown away down the back straight...no doubt partially an issue with the choice of soft rear Michelin. But it looked suspiciously like the worldbeater RCV Honda's of bygone years, and Marc was on the seemingly MIA hard/hard compound which had me wondering if hell froze over. I'm going to make the prediction that the season is effectively over. He simply had so much in reserve it looked like he was running a different race, and that includes even Dani Pedrosa too. We go to the HRC circuit of Motegi, the rider's circuit of Phillip Island, and then the heat of Malaysia in October, the only situation I can see anything going wrong is if MM bins it...always a consideration in fairness. That said, Malaysia will probably see him get his hard/hard combo in the heat unless it is a wet weather race which we know how those go for him, and I suspect he will be crowned world champion there.

The kid is just too good. It's really a shame Stoner retired, I do think Marquez would have beaten Stoner now. I loved him, but Marquez is just slowly becoming relentless in that mold of Doohan IMO. The race was quite thrilling, and he made some breathtaking saves, and overtakes. I was mesmerized by his corner entry into 16, and the corner speed he was carrying through that onto the start/finish straight. Must have been spectacular to see in person. Easily ride of the day.

While Rossi gets kudos for going out there, my runner up for ride of the day in the class was Aleix Espargaro on the Aprilia. He made the one mistake late in the race when he was closing down on Valentino and ran wide. My opinion is if he doesn't run wide there, we would have gotten a really great battle for P5 if nothing else. That Aprilia is really starting to look good at some of the circuits. Would be nice to see a top tier rider on the RS-GP to see what that thing could do. Maybe Marquez could go ride there in 2019? Jk. I do think Rossi's problem is as Jum mentioned, he doesn't manage the tires well anymore, and he is getting killed in the second half of the race when everyone else is managing them more appropriately in the first half. Other thing too is I do think it is age starting to catch up ever-so slightly. He probably could off-set that with slightly better tire management.

Lorenzo looked great as well. Main concern with him is the viability of the fairings. I feel like it is 50-50 that they get banned in the off-season, and then he would be right back at square one. But what might keep them in play is having a competitive Lorenzo ensures that we get a title battle since it's apparent Maverick Vinales is not the anointed one everyone thought he was, as I correctly predicted last year when he was signed.

2018 looks to be a Marquez-Lorenzo redux if things work out. Should be thrilling.

Too bad we have a break now. Perils of stretching the calendar to November.
Click to expand...

Good post.

I have long argued that Aleix is a very good rider. He reckons the chassis is the best he's ever ridden in MotoGP, but that he needs a better engine.

I'm very encouraged by the strength of the KTM and Ape. With a top rider, I think the Ape and KTM would be very close to the front.

Marquez is clearly the best on the grid.
 
Keshav said:
Pardon me, but this does sound like two wrongs making a right again.
Click to expand...

Your view to which you are entitled.

I can be proverbial if you like, however, in regard to those who come on here and make the call of conspiracy theory in so facile a fashion without feeling the need for anything in the way of an argument.

Matthew 7:3
Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?
 
JPSLotus said:
......
The kid is just too good. It's really a shame Stoner retired, I do think Marquez would have beaten Stoner now. I loved him, but Marquez is just slowly becoming relentless in that mold of Doohan IMO. .......

Lorenzo looked great as well. Main concern with him is the viability of the fairings. I feel like it is 50-50 that they get banned in the off-season, and then he would be right back at square one. But what might keep them in play is having a competitive Lorenzo ensures that we get a title battle since it's apparent Maverick Vinales is not the anointed one everyone thought he was, as I correctly predicted last year when he was signed.
......
Click to expand...
I don't think one can make a call about Stoner versus Marquez, anymore than Marquez vs Doohan, or Stoner vs Doohan. It's just silly bench racing that doesn't prove anything or make much sense.

While the fairing is a benefit to Lorenzo, more than that has gone on. And even if it is toned down, which is doubtful since the precedent has been set, I believe the end is in sight and the field should fear JLo, again. MUCH MORE than Vinales, who I never thought was the next Marquez/Rossi/Stoner/Doohan. He is more of an oversized Dani Pedrosa.
Gaz said:
Decide for yourself - the overtake from two angles - https://streamable.com/15vil
....
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Thanks. That supports my supposition that the Dani was just having a Sangria moment. I don't see a problem with Rossi's riding.
 
Iamapony said:
I don't think one can make a call about Stoner versus Marquez, anymore than Marquez vs Doohan, or Stoner vs Doohan. It's just silly bench racing that doesn't prove anything or make much sense.

While the fairing is a benefit to Lorenzo, more than that has gone on. And even if it is toned down, which is doubtful since the precedent has been set, I believe the end is in sight and the field should fear JLo, again. MUCH MORE than Vinales, who I never thought was the next Marquez/Rossi/Stoner/Doohan. He is more of an oversized Dani Pedrosa.

Thanks. That supports my supposition that the Dani was just having a Sangria moment. I don't see a problem with Rossi's riding.
Click to expand...

You are right about comparisons across different eras of course.

I do think Stoner fully focused as he was in 2007 and 2011 is hard for anyone to beat. The personal cost to him of winding himself up to be like that seems to have been high, however, and contributory to him not wanting to continue in the sport, whereas MM imo is just naturally the way he is, a shark as Jumkie says.
Stoner was never going to win 8/10 titles, which MM may well manage.

Peak Stoner against MM would have been epic, and I hope Stoner would have embraced the challenge if MM was riding as he does now rather than more recklessly and carelessly as he did earlier in his career.

My bias no doubt shows, but spectacular as MM is I still enjoyed watching Stoner ride a lap on his own more than any other rider.
 
michaelm said:
Stoner was never going to win 8/10 titles, which MM may well manage.

Peak Stoner against MM would have been epic, and I hope Stoner would have embraced the challenge if MM was riding as he does now rather than more recklessly and carelessly as he did earlier in his career.

My bias no doubt shows, but spectacular as MM is I still enjoyed watching Stoner ride a lap on his own more than any other rider.
Click to expand...
See, I might disagree with the first sentence. I firmly believed that Stoner was going to do a five-in-a-row Doohan streak when he went back to Honda. Three things changed that, he raced TOO hard the second Honda return-year. He got hurt. His wife got preggy and suddenly all the other problems of MotoGP were WAY TOO heavy for him to handle. Strike three - out - he went fishing.
:fish:
I like watching Lorenzo and Rossi and Pedrosa race Marquez. But, many of us heavy-duty fans do wish for a Marc-Casey show down on matched bikes. Just remember that Pedrosa has beaten both those guys on matched bikes. ;)
 
My personal opinion is there is no man alive past or present that could ride the 07 -10 Ducati any better than Casey Stoner, and there is no rider that could ride the 16/17 Honda better than Marquez. Then again I would say no rider could ride the 92 - 99 Honda better than Doohan, the 89 - 91 Yamaha better than Rainey. I'm sure you all know where this is going. Oh .... I left out Rossi and Uccio. Oh well.
 
michaelm said:
You are right about comparisons across different eras of course.

I do think Stoner fully focused as he was in 2007 and 2011 is hard for anyone to beat. The personal cost to him of winding himself up to be like that seems to have been high, however, and contributory to him not wanting to continue in the sport, whereas MM imo is just naturally the way he is, a shark as Jumkie says.
Stoner was never going to win 8/10 titles, which MM may well manage.

Peak Stoner against MM would have been epic, and I hope Stoner would have embraced the challenge if MM was riding as he does now rather than more recklessly and carelessly as he did earlier in his career.

My bias no doubt shows, but spectacular as MM is I still enjoyed watching Stoner ride a lap on his own more than any other rider.
Click to expand...




Pernat thinks Marquez will break Rossi's records. He is 24 and just got his 60th win yesterday, the fastest to do so.

https://www.gpone.com/en/2017/09/25/motogp/pernat-marquez-will-beat-rossis-nine-titles.html
 
Stoner: best I had ever seen until Marquez showed up.

MM was too wild the first couple of years and he still has that going, goes against him.
However when it comes down to racing a bike when it all counts, I'm not betting against him.

Lorenzo: my favorite rider. supreme talent and drive, with chinks in his armor that we all know of. I still think he is going to win on the Duc....that might even make me buy one!
A "vintage" 916 of course. I personally would not know what to do the horepower of any modern "superbike."

Rossi: talented and driven. The chinks in his armor are of the moral variety, which I simple do not tolerate. It's enough to convince me to never buy a yamaha.

Cheers all.
 

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