Gran Premio GoPro de Aragón Aug. 29 -Sept. 1 2024

Seeing the somber faces of Domenicali and Gigi when it happened made me think they are worried about ramifications of this event. They do not want the #1 plate go to Aprilia, for this they need healthy Bagnaia. If Martin continues his current strategy of collecting points then who knows what might happen.

It's funny how things can change in a couple of months. When Jorge was announced for Aprilia, I thought that was it for his title chances, and his howler in Sachsehnring didn't help things. But two months later he's in a privileged position to win the championship. I think he's benefiting from all the external narratives happening around him; the previous season he was the only guy spicing things up in the championship, and I think that attention affected him. Now he's in the shadows despite leading the title race, all the narratives are centered around Pecco, Marc, the silly season, and sometimes Acosta. And if this current narrative of Pecco vs Marquez bros goes forward, he'll be freer to do the business quietly like he's been doing so far. Obviously Ducati is not gonna give Jorge any new parts, but how much does he need them at this point of the season? I don't think the GP24 can be improved that much this late in the season.

While I proclaimed Martin would not win this year's title, I hadn't expected things to take a decidedly conspiratorial tone with our defending world champion with regards to the crash. This could potentially change a lot of things now because I don't know if he's actually now bought into the VR46 ........ completely. I'm going to see what we get at Misano this weekend. I wonder what MM is really thinking at the moment. He said it was an accident the first time he saw it on video in the cooldown room. I don't think his mind has likely changed on this. But I wonder if Pecco knows he's playing with fire right now? You know if he loses this title he's going to blame Alex entirely for it and probably the Marquez brothers/family when all is said and done. Pecco has shown an amazing ability to comeback from dire circumstances in the past, but I also think Martin might actually have learned something.

Read a few messages back and see that there's a lot of controversy regarding the AM and PB crash.

First, all accolades go to MM and his amazing rides both in the sprint and race. He remains a truly amazing rider and barring injuries, stands in an ominous position for winning the championship come next year. I was having my doubts, but they were dispelled with this display of dominance where he made the difference.

I am supporting JM for the title. I think he would be deserving since he has improved so much with his approach to the races.

As to the crash. I was really very happy to see that Pecco ended up with only bruises to show for what appeared like a very nasty crash. It could have so easily been different. Gosh!! I think it was just an unfortunate racing incident. Both were gunning for a much wanted podium finish. Things happening just when each was in the other's blind site (with AM's explanation, his not seeing PB while busy taking his line in the corner does make sense). Fate stepped in.

JPSLotus said:

While I proclaimed Martin would not win this year's title, I hadn't expected things to take a decidedly conspiratorial tone with our defending world champion with regards to the crash. This could potentially change a lot of things now because I don't know if he's actually now bought into the VR46 ........ completely. I'm going to see what we get at Misano this weekend. I wonder what MM is really thinking at the moment. He said it was an accident the first time he saw it on video in the cooldown room. I don't think his mind has likely changed on this. But I wonder if Pecco knows he's playing with fire right now? You know if he loses this title he's going to blame Alex entirely for it and probably the Marquez brothers/family when all is said and done. Pecco has shown an amazing ability to comeback from dire circumstances in the past, but I also think Martin might actually have learned something.

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He shouldn't be blaming AM if he were to end up losing the championship, but instead, those many DNF's. The crash with AM was an incident and all other contenders have had their share of incidents to deal with.

Crazy race. Glad Marc got it done, and Acosta had a great ride, too.

Regarding the A Marquez vs. Bagnaia incident, it is similar to the Vinales vs Bagnaia crash at LeMans in 2023. Pecco pulled even with Vinales on the inside, but he was on the outside of the ensuing left, so Mav never saw him. It was deemed a racing incident. The situation at Aragon was a bit different in that Alex was not near the racing line, and Pecco was far enough forward that Marquez saw him immediately before impact. The stewards dismissed Alex' mistake because of the new racing surface, and they said Alex was looking through the turn to his right.

It's significant that Bagnaia has been involved in two of these crashes in two years. In both instances, he was underachieving at the time of the crash. Regardless of who is at fault, if Pecco is smart, he will abandon this type of overtake.

Big picture, it's sprint races that are back on the hot seat. The biggest win differential in a single season between the champion and the top race winner occurred in 2006. Nick won the title with 2 races, and Vale had 5 wins. Right now, Pecco has 7 GP wins and Martin has just 2. We still have 8 rounds to go. Anything can happen, but if this differential remains at 5 or possibly expands, Dorna will be in a tough spot. They introduced an entertainment sideshow that they claimed would have no impact on the sport, but in year 2, it's already turning race strategy on its ear.

I don't understand the vitriol tbh. I don't really see what either of them did wrong. Pecco was virtually passed him already and Alex could not have seen him at the point they clashed. But I never raced a bike, so what do I know

I'm very sure Marc will do never anything what even remotely would damage the interests of Ducati. He is way too smart for this. He will distance himself from things like this one. He will help Bagnaia in his title fight against JM.

If one guy named Tweedle Dee and another guy named Tweedle Dum had the exact same crash, there wouldn’t be a 10 page debate on it.

Well done by Marc. Perfect weekend. Pole, fastest lap, sprint win and race win.

Saffa said:

I don't understand the vitriol tbh. I don't really see what either of them did wrong. Pecco was virtually passed him already and Alex could not have seen him at the point they clashed. But I never raced a bike, so what do I know

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Horse shoes and hand grenades. Virtually passed is the problem. He wasn't clear to come back to the inside the way he did. If he was then it wouldn't be an issue and there wouldn't be a crash. I get that I am hard on Pecco for what was a racing incident but the fact of the matter is these things happen to Pecco a lot more than any other rider because he doesn't anticipate that the other rider needs space. This is the exact same thing he did to Mav last year and although different the same principals apply to what he did to Marc this year. One of the most important things a racer must do is learn from their mistakes. You learn more from a loss than a win. Instead he places blame on others and continues to repeat the same mistakes as a rider. I doubt he will ever grow or grow up. He would never win a championship on equal machinery as an equal talented rider because he is his own worst enemy. In all three instances Alex, Marc, and Mav he had the time and speed to eventually get past but chose to act like a dumb .... instead.

Segfault said:

He will help Bagnaia in his title fight against JM.

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You do know that Marc is NOT Canadian . . . right?

synn said:

If one guy named Tweedle Dee and another guy named Tweedle Dum had the exact same crash, there wouldn’t be a 10 page debate on it.

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Exactly. They both went for the same piece of tarmac. Both assumed they had the corner. I find both points of view understandable. And the post race blame game depends on the identity of the riders, particularly the identity of the rider attempting the outside pass, I can recall several similar incidents where the outside rider was blamed , and some where the inside rider eas blamed.

Surely contending that Marquez deliberately took Pecco out is a little past the edge of rationality though, I seriously doubt any rider would run the risk of injury to both parties in such a circumstance, and I don’t see what was in it for AM. I also don’t see why Valentino involved AM as part of his vendetta against his brother in the first place either, I can’t think of anything AM has ever done before. Vendetta is an Italian word though I guess, so Valentino probably knows how they work better than I do.

Not that I actually believe this is an original thought, but in the spirit of Godwin's Law, I would take a second to note that anytime a long-running controversy emerges on this forum, it will inevitably lead to the invocation of Rossi's name. Sure, he didn't kill 6 million, but he has gas-lighted a lot of race fans. From here on in this axiom will be known as Keshav's Maxim.

I've said before that that the title will be determined by DNF's

AM says he didn't see Bagnaia which seems a reasonable comment. How clean was the track at that point? if Bagnaia had left 1 metre how much grip would the track had?

AnnoyingTwit said:

I've caught up with Moto2, so please don't read further if you haven't yet seen the race.

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Thank you very much for this. I do not watch the races live and I cannot come here until I get caught up and by that time, 10 pages of posts have taken place. I wish others would give this warning BEFORE posting spoilers. It's not difficult and would help a brother out. Thanks again.

mikesbytes said:

I've said before that that the title will be determined by DNF's

AM says he didn't see Bagnaia which seems a reasonable comment. How clean was the track at that point? if Bagnaia had left 1 metre how much grip would the track had?

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I think it is reasonable but there is two things at play that are making people get up in arms IMO.
1. Alex's last name.
2. Pecco's attitude towards the crash, victim playing and for lack of a better word arrogance.

Keshav said:

Not that I actually believe this is an original thought, but in the spirit of Godwin's Law, I would take a second to note that anytime a long-running controversy emerges on this forum, it will inevitably lead to the invocation of Rossi's name. Sure, he didn't kill 6 million, but he has gas-lighted a lot of race fans. From here on in this axiom will be known as Keshav's Maxim.

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There was a corollary to Godwin’s Law I believe, from Godwin himself, that it was allowable to mention Nazism in the context of genuine fascism/:authoritarian regimes if not in regard to anything trivial.

I guess all discussion of motogp bike racing on a forum such as this one is inherently trivial, but imo it is not unreasonable to mention Valentino Rossi in the context of the attitude of the most successful rider he has mentored to the Marquez brothers, particularly since Rossi extended his vendetta to include Alex years ago, no Marquez will ever ride for Yamaha etc.

What this thread seems to lack is the acknowledgement of the fact that Valentino is a proud Interisti while Pecco is an out-and-out Juventino.
It's beyond reason that they could be Mentor and Protégé. Hence, they are gentle souls.

PRS717 said:

Thank you very much for this. I do not watch the races live and I cannot come here until I get caught up and by that time, 10 pages of posts have taken place. I wish others would give this warning BEFORE posting spoilers. It's not difficult and would help a brother out. Thanks again.

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I posted the spoiler thing because someone else had said that they hadn't seen the Moto2 race yet. Though, I think that in this thread, people are going to discuss the race while live. Since I was posting out of sequence with the live discussion of the race: spoiler. But, I think it's inevitable (and reasonable) that there will be discussion of the race when live.

In my case, I deliberately only read the last part of the thread until I had seen the race. So that it was only MotoGP discussion. And, I added a spoiler when I posted in a chunk of the thread where it's less likely there will be moto2 discussion.