They can't afford not to trust each other. They've moved heaven and earth to prevent a cost war, and breaking such agreements would mean another cost explosion. The factories bear the burden of costs in MotoGP, and they can't afford more. If they had access to unlimited budgets, then gentlemen's agreements would be in frequent use for arse-wiping duties. However, they don't, so they have no option but to play along.
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They can't afford not to trust each other. They've moved heaven and earth to prevent a cost war, and breaking such agreements would mean another cost explosion. The factories bear the burden of costs in MotoGP, and they can't afford more. If they had access to unlimited budgets, then gentlemen's agreements would be in frequent use for arse-wiping duties. However, they don't, so they have no option but to play along.
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It has been my experience that when things get the tightest and most desperate, honesty in man goes right out the window.
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It has been my experience that when things get the tightest and most desperate, honesty in man goes right out the window.
Indeed, and you have just been a good example of that. As your stance in this little debate became more and more hopeless, your intellectual honesty went right out of the window... along with that of the other would-be prosecutors.
Why not just admit you inflated a non-existent issue out of all proportions?
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What a muppet you are. You and Mental Anarchist talking nonsense, and when I ask you why no media outlets are questioning Ducati's testing you say, 'Good question, I dont know...'
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I think that openness was key here. There was probably an expectation that common sense would prevail, and it looks like it has as far as the manufacturers are concerned.
I think someone tried to argue that the official MotoGP website 'advertising' the Ducati test was not actually them endorsing it as legitimate
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What a muppet you are. You and Mental Anarchist talking nonsense, and when I ask you why no media outlets are questioning Ducati's testing you say, 'Good question, I dont know...'.
Well... I suppose I could try emulating you and instead of saying honestly I don't know
- could just make up some ......... I suppose you'd find that flattering.
The fact that something hasn't been said in the media outlets is not a defacto
guarantee that there's nothing to report.
I have also said that if this is legit - why are the other manufacturers not following suit?
And apparently you have no answer to this.
And - I say - so ....... what if MotoGP site put the photo etc up?
If Dorna were colluding because they were desperate
to have their top star and golden goose be competitive -
what would be more natural than to give it all the veneer
of respectablity than to put their stamp of approval on it.
The dynamic is comparable to when a govt agency is accused
of corruption and the very agency who stands accused - offers
to investigate itself. Happens all the time.
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It's already been reported that Honda were going to test their 2012 bike but for the earthquake. You'll say it wouldn't have been the riders that tested, but you don't actually know that.
Yes I'd heard that. But as nothing was said about using team riders - it's a non-news event.
And, what of Yamaha and Suzuki? Hmmm?
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A bit like every single one of your posts in this thread.
A complete waste of time, but at least Kropotkin has confirmed the reality of the situation.
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I dunno, but that alone does not make Ducati 'guilty'?
Do you not realise how weak your argument is?
Yamaha: Earthquake, Suzuki: Why test when you're going to pull out at the end of the year anyway?
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It was reported at Lorenzo's promotion of his new photobook that he might be testing a new engine for this year's bike at the IRTA tests after Estoril (this seems to be replacing the testing the teams usually do after Catalunya), and that he will be trying the 2012 M1 after the Mugello round.
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Whilst I enjoyed your cold war analogy, comparing the threat of Mutually Assured Destruction and the end of the civillised world to any perceived technical advantages that might be gained during a motorcycle world championship testing session is a stretch at best....The stakes involved are hardly in the same ballpark
I have no problems in having a "gentlemens agreement" between the manufacturers for these test sessions, but surely in any democratic or fair process openess and transparency are vital to at least maintain some semblance of equity. I think the costs involved in having the technical regulations for the 2012 rules scrutineered is desirable simply as a way to provide checks and balances so that this "gentlemens agreement" is strictly adhered to....otherwise the motives and actions of certain individuals and/or teams can be called into question given that it is financially desirable to the organisation running the sport to have said particular individuals and/or teams competitive and running at the front.
On a separate issue, what is your take on Rossi and Simoncelli's recent musings during a rider safety meeting regarding the introduction of bike/rider minimum weight limits...I personally can't see how this can in any way be interpreted as a "safety issue". Surely if heavier riders are being disadvantaged by having to run leaner fuel mixtures during a race it makes far more sense to increase the fuel limit from the current 21 litre capacity - especially given the increase in engine capacity of 200cc....this fuel rule to my way of thinking has been the worst regulation introduced in the entire history of the sport. It effectively defeats the very purpose of racing in its purest sense and I am sure it has influenced the results in some of the races run over the past few years and will now seemingly place an even greater emphasis on machine advantage via economic fuel management systems. Rider skill should always be the defining factor in attaining victory....developing fuel efficient or green technologies is best left to events such as the world solar challenge - not a motorcycle racing world championship.
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Whilst I enjoyed your cold war analogy, comparing the threat of Mutually Assured Destruction and the end of the civillised world to any perceived technical advantages that might be gained during a motorcycle world championship testing session is a stretch at best....The stakes involved are hardly in the same ballpark
I have no problems in having a "gentlemens agreement" between the manufacturers for these test sessions, but surely in any democratic or fair process openess and transparency are vital to at least maintain some semblance of equity. I think the costs involved in having the technical regulations for the 2012 rules scrutineered is desirable simply as a way to provide checks and balances so that this "gentlemens agreement" is strictly adhered to....otherwise the motives and actions of certain individuals and/or teams can be called into question given that it is financially desirable to the organisation running the sport to have said particular individuals and/or teams competitive and running at the front.
On a separate issue, what is your take on Rossi and Simoncelli's recent musings during a rider safety meeting regarding the introduction of bike/rider minimum weight limits...I personally can't see how this can in any way be interpreted as a "safety issue". Surely if heavier riders are being disadvantaged by having to run leaner fuel mixtures during a race it makes far more sense to increase the fuel limit from the current 21 litre capacity - especially given the increase in engine capacity of 200cc....this fuel rule to my way of thinking has been the worst regulation introduced in the entire history of the sport. It effectively defeats the very purpose of racing in its purest sense and I am sure it has influenced the results in some of the races run over the past few years and will now seemingly place an even greater emphasis on machine advantage via economic fuel management systems. Rider skill should always be the defining factor in attaining victory....developing fuel efficient or green technologies is best left to events such as the world solar challenge - not a motorcycle racing world championship.
WINNER
My allegiances are clear, and I am far from the "rossi can do no wrong " school of thought, as my response to efforts to make stoner the villain of the piece after the jerez incident demonstrate; I am reliably informed I was reasonably vehement.
However I don't see any more validiity to the "rossi can do no right" school, and don't see that anything pertaining to motogp concerning him must involve favouritism and conspiracy. I actually agree that ducati are more likely to gain concessions with him as lead rider than with stoner as same, but this does not necessarily imply if the gp12 testing did involve a concession that this required blackmail or conspiracy.
I think kropotkin's analogy is apt because the stakes are now nuclear for ducati , with no excuses now available for the the perfomance of the bike and massive funds expended, not least by marlboro, who have failed to demonstrate much patience in the past. If ducati continue to struggle it is bad all round for motogp, and possibly risks ducati's survival, particularly if valentino retired with ducati to blame. I believe the other teams would want ducati to survive, if only to have someone to beat; this was also bridgestone's attitude when the control tyre was mooted, they wanted michelin to stay.
AMCN are not noted for pulling their punches, but did not see fit to mention that there was anything irregular about the gp12 being tested in their report on the test in the current issue. Of interest, to me at least, is that they say the capacity of the engine is still to be confirmed, and that outwardly the gp 12 is an evolution of the current 800cc family with a big-bang firing order engine that is a stressed member of the chassis, as well as that the prototype featured a low slung swingarm and linkage option which Rossi said was a positive step. The gp12 apparently has more torque and a deeper exhaust rumble running at a lower rev limit than the 18,000 rpm gp11.
Whilst I enjoyed your cold war analogy, comparing the threat of Mutually Assured Destruction and the end of the civillised world to any perceived technical advantages that might be gained during a motorcycle world championship testing session is a stretch at best....The stakes involved are hardly in the same ballpark
Have you seen the losses incurred by motorcycle companies over the past few years? Mutually Assured Destruction is a genuine possibility, if Honda or Yamaha step up to spend another 30 million in testing the MotoGP bike, that could be the difference between barely surviving and massive layoffs.
Still, I admit there is plenty of room for suspicious minds to regard this as a blatant breach of the set rules. In another situation, it would have been regarded as such. But these are very dire straits that factories and MotoGP are in, and so nobody is going to push the limits too far.
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This - makes sense. I can see the other manufacturers thinking, "What the hell - might as well have Ducati do a little extra testing.
Don't want them to be the next Suzuki."
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That alone does not make them innocent either.
If Kropo says the purse-strings are that tight, it would I reckon preclude testing
in Europe rather than Japan.
