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He was very "lucky"....Honda sabotaged his championship at every possible opportunity. Get educated... the 'Worst'. It's a ....... miracle Rossi hasn't won every "championship" since. I won't call you ignorant. No, I won't.

Yes of course, Honda sabotaged him by keeping him as a factory rider for six seasons despite only winning 3 times in that time. Ducati also sabotaged him by punishing him with a factory ride for 5 seasons...

Nicky was a nice guy, but I doubt he would have retained gp factory rides for as long as he did if he had a different passport. This is a business first, then a (sort of) sport, and there were no other Americans around. It's a big market you know... and then you have Colin, but that's another story.

On the Honda that was clearly built with Dani in mind, Dani was better than Dovi, yes certainly agree, but Dovi of today I am not so sure as he is a far better rider than he was in the Honda days.

The "built for Dani" agenda is more speculation than fact. They rode the same bike and Dani dominated, that's not debatable. I'm not sure I see why today's Dovi is "far better" than he was in his HRC days, relative to DP.

my take, Dani is the better but Cal is not to be underestimated

So no point replacing Dani with him then. We agree.

As for Pedro on the Yamaha I am not so sure as the Yamaha seems to be a more 'ride on rails' and precise bike where the HRC machines that Dani has grown up with are a little more unruly, wild type of machines and personally, when he rides in that manner is generally when he does well.

I disagree, in fact I think the main reason he hasn't won a title yet is because the Honda isn't ideal for his style, and his size is a limitation in dominating that type of bike. He was imperial in the "ride on rails" 250 cc machines for a reason. He won't beat MM on a Honda over a season, should have tried to get on a factory Yamaha .
 
The "built for Dani" agenda is more speculation than fact. They rode the same bike and Dani dominated, that's not debatable. I'm not sure I see why today's Dovi is "far better" than he was in his HRC days, relative to DP.

Where there is smoke, there is fire and since Dani's arrival (and prior to Puig's departure) it was well reported that Honda designed the bike with Dani in mind as they saw him as future star (along with Repsol monies no doubt adding the incentive on which one to prioritise).

As for Dovi being better today, whilst it is opinion I do believe that he has gotten better as the years progressed (said when he left HRC and will say it again - his being forced out made him re-evaluate and he has stepped up massively from that day). In much the same way people say that Stoner did not test himself by backward steps, Dovi went backwards and now powers forwards and is a far better rider.

Better than Dani today - opnion only - not sure but for mine, he is as close as gnats .... at the present moment to Dani.




So no point replacing Dani with him then. We agree.

Never said there was did I?

What I do say is that Dani (as with all factory riders) has at his disposal resources that non-factory riders just do not have (technicians, r&d, dollars and what not) and with this in mind, to judge one against a rider such as Cal is somewhat 'tempered' by the available equipment.

FWIW I will say now, that today I reckon Cal and Dani are closer matched than many think (4 podiums v 8 in the last 2 years) but so far in 2017 Dani is the better in result terms



I disagree, in fact I think the main reason he hasn't won a title yet is because the Honda isn't ideal for his style, and his size is a limitation in dominating that type of bike. He was imperial in the "ride on rails" 250 cc machines for a reason. He won't beat MM on a Honda over a season, should have tried to get on a factory Yamaha .

IMO here but no doubt his size is a limiting factor and now with Marquez, the bike is going further from the 'pedrocycle' of years past. Basically, I feel his chances with Honda have gone and he will never win a title with Honda unless there are exceptional circumstances as (and I know you rate him higher than I) for me, he is the 4th best rider at best in today's field (Vinales, Rossi, Marquez in no order, and close with Dovi and Cal).

I would suggest that it is likely that if he had gone direct to Yamaha in 2006 , at a time that VR was assisting to develop the Yamaha into the brilliant machine it was to come, with high corner speed and ride on rails approach, then for me we may be talking differently of DP as he could have used his high corner speed 250 style to better advantage.
 
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Im not in any way trying to denigrate Stoner here. When i used the word shame, perhaps it was lost in translation. It's a shame, meaning its a pity. Personally for me I would have been more of a fan of Stoner if he continued to beat the all powerfull and influential Japanese manufacturers with the little boys from Bollogna. I have long contended that there are no aliens, only alien bikes. I enjoy seeing satellite bikes and other manufacturers beat them.
I don't know why Stoner left Duc, I don't think he was running from a challenge, Im saying I would have liked seeing him continue to beat them on what was inferior bike post 2007.
This was not a comparison to Rossi v Stoner. I don't really care for either equally.
From Rossi's personal perspective I maintain that it was not an easy decision to make. Especially coming from Rossi who's big decisions weigh so heavily they tend to turn into book titles. Im sure a lot of it was ego and some really bad advice from Burgess.
Leaving Yam for Duc is a bit like being a CEO of Facebook and leaving for MySpace. You never know, Myspace was big once, It could be again.
I think the same for Lorenzo's defection to Duc. While I think it was a bad move I still respect the balls to put your career and reputation on the line.
Ok, you and dubs had your chance. Nothing but pages of pages of whinging Stoner ...... He retired like 30 years ago ..........

Back to what's important. Conspiracy theories. Stoner wasn't offered a contract with Ducati for 2011. He had no choice but to go to Honda. His no 1 supporter at Ducati, Luvio Suppo, had already bailed to Honda, knowing what was coming. What was coming you say? The second coming, the Goat, Rossi.

The whole saga was an absolute embarrassment of the whole sport. There's nothing else to say. If you can't recognise this is Euro Spanish Italian WWE gp what else do I say? Gee it was a shame Spies didnt do better, win a couple of token championships at least? If you think I'm putting .... on Spies your dead wrong, I rate him very very highly. 800cc, wrong place wrong time, not yellow, not Euro. End of.
 
Ok, you and dubs had your chance. Nothing but pages of pages of whinging Stoner ...... He retired like 30 years ago ..........

Back to what's important. Conspiracy theories. Stoner wasn't offered a contract with Ducati for 2011. He had no choice but to go to Honda. His no 1 supporter at Ducati, Luvio Suppo, had already bailed to Honda, knowing what was coming. What was coming you say? The second coming, the Goat, Rossi.

The whole saga was an absolute embarrassment of the whole sport. There's nothing else to say. If you can't recognise this is Euro Spanish Italian WWE gp what else do I say? Gee it was a shame Spies didnt do better, win a couple of token championships at least? If you think I'm putting .... on Spies your dead wrong, I rate him very very highly. 800cc, wrong place wrong time, not yellow, not Euro. End of.

.... off. No reason to mention me as I have asked contentiously to drop it. I think its time you all are remind of how easy it i to treat his moaner ... like Cal Crutchlow.
 
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No reason to mention me as I have asked contentiously to drop it. I think its time you all are remind of how easy it i to treat his moaner ... like Cal Crutchlow.

Now you add ..... while I'm not looking, that's not on. Stoner is the goat. Crutchlow is now the no 2 goat, displacing Spies to no 3 goat. Rossi is # 30 all time without cheating #tires#.
 
Why do you think I care where you rate Rossi? Its you that cares where I rate Stoner not vise versa. You almost drew me back in with the .... post. I started to outline how mentally frail Crashy was through out his entire career but then I realized his fans are more mentally frail even years after the fact so I deleted it. Wouldn't want to offend you.
 
Why do you think I care where you rate Rossi? Its you that cares where I rate Stoner not vise versa. You almost drew me back in with the .... post. I started to outline how mentally frail Crashy was through out his entire career but then I realized his fans are more mentally frail even years after the fact so I deleted it. Wouldn't want to offend you.

No-one gives a flying .... about your often vapid opinions, and in particular whether in your own opinion you have won any fights on here.
 
No-one gives a flying .... about your often vapid opinions, and in particular whether in your own opinion you have won any fights on here.

I have never claimed to win any arguments, I say they always break down far before that point. You are the only oen saying I do this more or I do that more. Grow the .... up, I'll tell you for the thousandth time if you don't like my opinion block me. I'm never talking to you anyway. You want to put yourself in the category I'm talking about and make it personal then you need to be less vain. And you are wrong, people did ask to hear my opinion and have a discussion about it, but I chose not to so this wouldn't happen. Stop acting like you are somehow more entitled to anything than me.
 
I meant whether Zarco gets the raw end of the stick - may have worded poorly but responding to a Zarco question and my 'suspicion' is that since the whinging started, his performances have dipped

Occurred to me as well. But I just don't think of Yamaha that way. Honda yes. Yamaha always seem very pragmatic. If Vinales is the future of the company - they will not want to cut the legs out from under him. I never thought poor bike prep etc. were anything deliberate on the part of Yamaha, but more the shortcomings of his crew.
 
No-one gives a flying .... about your often vapid opinions, and in particular whether in your own opinion you have won any fights on here.

I ....... beg you to block me because it obvious you can't look past my posts and I'm not changing for you.
 
Why do you think I care where you rate Rossi? Its you that cares where I rate Stoner not vise versa. You almost drew me back in with the .... post. I started to outline how mentally frail Crashy was through out his entire career but then I realized his fans are more mentally frail even years after the fact so I deleted it. Wouldn't want to offend you.

Wtf are you serious? I was drunk making fun. If you are taking this soooo serious. I thought you were the funny awards show dude. Ok misjudged obviously all the best and good luck to you.
 
Occurred to me as well. But I just don't think of Yamaha that way. Honda yes. Yamaha always seem very pragmatic. If Vinales is the future of the company - they will not want to cut the legs out from under him. I never thought poor bike prep etc. were anything deliberate on the part of Yamaha, but more the shortcomings of his crew.

Being brutally conspiratorial here but given the outspoken comments of Vinales and Rossi towards Zarco and his riding style, I have concerns as to how he will be 'supported' into the future if, and I emphasise IF he is allowed to continue to threaten the top two.

Yamaha have invested large dollars into Rossi and now Vinales so to have them showing as anything other than the top two riders is where I have concerns as really, to date Tech 3 have always been the #2 team in terms of results and publicity but Zarco has thrown that cat amongst the pigeons. That all said, he needs to maintain it for a season both mentally and physically as well which is a big ask for a class rookie (and let us not forget that Folger is no dud either)

Spies, well I realise that his crew may have been somewhat contributory but I also look at timings of certain things that occurred.
 
Wtf are you serious? I was drunk making fun. If you are taking this soooo serious. I thought you were the funny awards show dude. Ok misjudged obviously all the best and good luck to you.

You obviously missed the last 20 pages of me trying to get out of this conversation. It has become a touchy subject for me as I always get attacked for having a different opinion. You and I have always got a long so I didn't take well to waking up to this after finally having had conversation about Dovi and others.
 
You obviously missed the last 20 pages of me trying to get out of this conversation. It has become a touchy subject for me as I always get attacked for having a different opinion. You and I have always got a long so I didn't take well to waking up to this after finally having had conversation about Dovi and others.

No you ....... don't.

Just who do you think you are FFS :p
 



Careful with the blowup Dubs ............. you can end up with a bloody headache, although it is debatable as to whether it is the head or the blowing that caused it :D


Must find something controversial to post so we can stop our pms posting
 
Careful with the blowup Dubs ............. you can end up with a bloody headache, although it is debatable as to whether it is the head or the blowing that caused it :D


Must find something controversial to post so we can stop our pms posting

I find a good blow is the best way to get rid of a headache.
 

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