GoPro Motorrad Grand Prix Deutschland

MdubSTYLIE said:

I guess you don't understand the meaning of we. I most definitely included myself.

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To put it more bluntly, you don't seem to grasp what has been annoying people, or me in particular anyway.

Having made such a fuss not so long ago about people getting personal with you and instructing you how to comport yourself on the forum, your own posts now seem to consist largely of criticism of other posters and their posts. Most of the posters you now despise with regularity at least try to discuss bike racing on occasion, and I personally have absolutely no problem with people arguing their opinions passionately. I also make absolutely no claim to being in any way a superior poster myself, btw.

If you're looking for a happier place to post go to Crapotkin's forum. It's great if you follow his reporting agenda because if you don't you get banned pretty much straight away, so you are surrounded by like-minded people, by design. A sanitised environment discouraging any dissent or independent thinking.

The Worst said:

If you're looking for a happier place to post go to Crapotkin's forum. It's great if you follow his reporting agenda because if you don't you get banned pretty much straight away, so you are surrounded by like-minded people, by design. A sanitised environment discouraging any dissent or independent thinking.

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Which in your case is Troll-Speak for insulting everyone's intelligence with alternative facts presented solely for the purpose of whipping up a frenzy, followed by the predictable, What me? Troll? No this is just what I really believe. Generally followed by "value-of-freedom-of-speech" canard. I visit that forum from time to time and there's plenty of intriguing speculation and keen insight. Not a lot of backbiting or flaming.

The Troll's idea of "happy" is a forum where everyone slaveringly responds to cheap dog whistle tactics or tries in vain to enlighten tolls whose mission in life is defined by the compulsion to create chaos and outrage.

The Worst said:

Yes, and those stay.



Sure... and my grandma smokes... imp:

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Riveting response. As well-thought out as your false assumptions were.

The trolls come and go. And come they did in the wake of Rossi's Sepang meltdown nearly 2 years ago. Once they realized their arguments were as vapid as the thoughts passing through their head, they slowly disappeared from here never to be seen again. You'll be gone from here just as quick as the rest of them since there isn't any regular poster here who will be convinced by whatever case you're trying to present. Just one more in a long line of people to be forgotten.

gekko1ro said:

Sorry, Barry, but I think you are trying to portray Roger worse than he really was. To say he didn`t came back because Rossi didn`t do well on the Ducati means that he wasn`t a fan of the sport, but only a fan of Rossi, and I don`t think this is true.
I liked Roger, and was a member on his forum during the deserted age of Powerslide. He wouldn`t bother to build that and maintain it just to be a Rossi shrine. It was a really nice and fun place to be, with a lot of topics, banter and interesting discussions.
So Barry, don`t try to say that Rossi`s performance turned Rog from racing, it`s not true.

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I stand by what I posted. Dont know about your interpretation though.

Little Walter said:

What me? Troll? No this is just what I really believe.

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So you have to be a troll to say (because of course you CAN'T even think that) Stoner is overrated (by some)? Or that MM raced most of 2015's PI race to keep Rossi behind Lorenzo?

I rate Stoner, but don't overrate him. He was what he was, and he wasn't what he wasn't. His ability to turn using rear wheel spin made things possible on that Ducati that were impossible for others. He was quick to adapt to bike and track changes. But he was also prone to crashing and more unstable mentally, relative to the best at that, which cost him one or two titles. The fact that he quit so early makes me think something wasn't quite right in his mindset.

Btw, any source about Stoner being vetoed by Rossi? If that was true then for sure he would have vetoed Lorenzo too?

As for 2015, I REALLY REALLY think MM did that at PI. One day, if I have the time, I'll post an analysis based in his sector times vs his track position to illustrate the evidence that very very strongly supports the hypothesis that he was deliberately changing his pace for that purpose. He didn't break any rules etc, I know that, but a clinical analysis of the evidence strongly supports Rossi's version. How people can simply flat out deny it and pretend any other view is "trolling" is beyond me.

The only question woth debating is, why did MM do it? Did Rossi deliberately take him out in Argentina? Was it Assen? Did it start before that?

The Worst said:

So you have to be a troll to say (because of course you CAN'T even think that) Stoner is overrated (by some)? Or that MM raced most of 2015's PI race to keep Rossi behind Lorenzo?

I rate Stoner, but don't overrate him. He was what he was, and he wasn't what he wasn't. His ability to turn using rear wheel spin made things possible on that Ducati that were impossible for others. He was quick to adapt to bike and track changes. But he was also prone to crashing and more unstable mentally, relative to the best at that, which cost him one or two titles. The fact that he quit so early makes me think something wasn't quite right in his mindset.

Btw, any source about Stoner being vetoed by Rossi? If that was true then for sure he would have vetoed Lorenzo too?

As for 2015, I REALLY REALLY think MM did that at PI. One day, if I have the time, I'll post an analysis based in his sector times vs his track position to illustrate the evidence that very very strongly supports the hypothesis that he was deliberately changing his pace for that purpose. He didn't break any rules etc, I know that, but a clinical analysis of the evidence strongly supports Rossi's version. How people can simply flat out deny it and pretend any other view is "trolling" is beyond me.

The only question woth debating is, why did MM do it? Did Rossi deliberately take him out in Argentina? Was it Assen? Did it start before that?

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As the saying goes, albeit slightly modified, you can lead a ....... to water and all that.

Here's the story from June 2006 about Stoner/Yamaha/Rossi.

Rossi objects to Yamaha poaching Stoner - Motorsport - Sport - theage.com.au

Lorenzo wound up at Yamaha because letting Rossi circle around unchallenged by Colin Edwards for several seasons wasn't exactly the best look, and the competition was getting tougher. The factories are racing for the constructor's title...what gives a better chance of getting that? A Rossi/Edwards pairing or a Rossi/Lorenzo pairing. If they had someone better than Colin Edwards on the second M1 for 2007, it's possible they may win the Constructor's Title even without a rider world title.

Laughable is how you cite Stoner's 'rear wheel spin' making things possible on the Ducati. There's so much more to how Stoner rode that bike that you aren't aware of, and how Stoner rode that bike was incomprehensible to even Rossi himself when he looked at Stoner's telemetry data during his first year at Ducati. How Stoner rode the Ducati was everything that you would be told not to do when racing grand prix motorcycles, or motorcycles period.

As far as mental toughness goes, you do not make it to MotoGP without mental toughness.

You do not win 38 grands prix and two world titles without mental toughness.

That you cite what he didn't do as some sort of defacto proof that Stoner was mentally weak is a piss-poor argument and so moronic that it ruins any credibility you will ever have here.

Regarding Phillip Island 2015: Marquez is a rider who will control his pace strategically as is his given right to do so since he is looking to achieve the best possible finish. You seem to forget how MM rode in his rookie season where he would spend lap after lap on the rear wheel of Dani Pedrosa or Jorge Lorenzo when he clearly had the quicker pace than either at a number of races. He waited till the last third or quarter of the race to make an overtake attempt, and then would open up a sizeable gap on his much less worn tires. Forcing the guy in front of you to ride at a harder/unsustainable pace than his tires can sustain is the epitome of intelligent racing since if you are not at 9/10ths or 10/10ths, your tire wear should stand to be less with proper management. What happened in 2013 at a number of races? Lorenzo would fade off once his tires were shot and MM continued reeling off laps that Lorenzo could not get near. Phillip Island was a race in the typical MM vein of picking and choosing his spots carefully. He had to that point spent numerous laps behind Jorge Lorenzo studying and analyzing JL's strengths/weaknesses to know when the best chances were to strike. That he waited till the last corner to make that overtake was some of the most finest racecraft I've ever witnessed. That didn't make it a conspiracy to .... Rossi over since beating Lorenzo offered no real help to Lorenzo as has already been discussed ad nauseum. No evidence supports your ........ claim, which is a claim that you only make because you need to believe your false idol wouldn't lie. After all, if you accept Rossi lied (which he did) it means all of that energy and time spent ranting about Marquez and the Spanish Conspiracy was nothing more than wasted time....and it shows you to be a gullible .... who can't even think for himself. But don't worry, you along with the rest of the legion of yellow-clad followers have always been that mentally weak.

JPSLotus said:

Here's the story from June 2006 about Stoner/Yamaha/Rossi.

Rossi objects to Yamaha poaching Stoner - Motorsport - Sport - theage.com.au

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Interesting, I didn't know that. But in hindsight he would have been better off with him on a Yamaha than on a Ducati in 2007? And then in 2008 he got Lorenzo... but as I said before, any of these guys would veto each other if given the chance, as MM did with Stoner replacing DP.

JPSLotus said:

There's so much more to how Stoner rode that bike that you aren't aware of

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Of course neither us or anyone else in this forum is aware of all the aspects of his riding.

JPSLotus said:

As far as mental toughness goes, you do not make it to MotoGP without mental toughness.

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True, but not all MotoGP riders are equally as tough and, relatively speaking, he wasn't among the toughest.

JPSLotus said:

Marquez is a rider who will control his pace strategically as is his given right to do so since he is looking to achieve the best possible finish

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Sure, but that's exactly what he didn't do in this one race (and the following two). This can easily be ascertained by comparing the data from PI and whichever race you want to compare it to, with the corresponding race situations. You will not find a comparable precedent from him or anybody else, apart from the Capirossi vs Spaan race, where his Italian mates were also "controlling their pace strategically".

In PI he had enough pace to lead and maintain a 5 second gap, which is what he and anybody does when in a position to do that. The fact that he won the race does not in any way invalidate what he was doing for most of the race. He disrupted Rossi's race to keep him behind Lorenzo, which he managed to do and still win the race, such was his superior pace on the day.

Both Rossi and Ianonne were faster than Lorenzo that day, and it was only MM's actions that kept them behind JL. It was lethal for Rossi to go from likely gaining another 3-7 points on Lorenzo, to losing that many points to him. That's what decided the championship, the PI race and the way MM raced in Valencia. It wasn't Sepang or the penalty. It wasn't a "Spanish conspiracy", MM's target was Rossi and didn't give a .... about Lorenzo.

Anyway, this is best talked about over some proper data analysis to reduce the vagueness of the emotional statements of the antiRossi camp.

michaelm said:

To put it more bluntly, you don't seem to grasp what has been annoying people, or me in particular anyway.

Having made such a fuss not so long ago about people getting personal with you and instructing you how to comport yourself on the forum, your own posts now seem to consist largely of criticism of other posters and their posts. Most of the posters you now despise with regularity at least try to discuss bike racing on occasion, and I personally have absolutely no problem with people arguing their opinions passionately. I also make absolutely no claim to being in any way a superior poster myself, btw.

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Lighten the .... up. If my negative opinion of a rider insults you then seriously block my posts. Have I offended you personally somehow?

The Worst said:

Both Rossi and Ianonne were faster than Lorenzo that day, and it was only MM's
......
Anyway, this is best talked about over some proper data analysis to reduce the vagueness of the emotional statements of the antiRossi camp.

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This must be the only sporting event series where the facts put forth by racing fans do not match the facts put forth by the results of the event. Doesn't anyone find that a bit odd?

You can argue that racing like Formula One suffers from the inability of the automobiles to pass because of lack of space on many tracks and size of the vehicles. This seems to be more difficult to use as justifications for the "fastest" racers ending behind "slower" racers with small motorcycles.

But, if it makes you happy, please give Rossi another championship, so that he has EIGHT. (I don't count warm-up series). Then perhaps he will go away and allow some space for the Zarcos of the world. I have seen enough Rossi to last me another lifetime, thank you so much.

The Worst said:

Interesting, I didn't know that. But in hindsight he would have been better off with him on a Yamaha than on a Ducati in 2007? And then in 2008 he got Lorenzo... but as I said before, any of these guys would veto each other if given the chance, as MM did with Stoner replacing DP.

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No, the riders who are fully confident in themselves would not veto any teammate. Most relish any challenge as there is no way better than to stamp their authority all over the team by beating their teammate. Rossi has long been one of the most insecure of the upper tier riders as evident by his long history of behavior relating to teammates since coming to the 500cc/GP class.

Of course neither us or anyone else in this forum is aware of all the aspects of his riding.

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That isn't a valid response. Some of us are far more aware than you apparently have shown to be.

True, but not all MotoGP riders are equally as tough and, relatively speaking, he wasn't among the toughest.

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What are you even basing that on that he wasn't among the toughest? He was absolutely one of the toughest competitors on track which is all that matters. You're again making a faulty inference that because he didn't care for all of the circus histrionics that surround GP, he was somehow mentally weak. 30 years earlier if Stoner had ridden, no one would have cared about his dislike of those things because the riders of that era were there to do two things only: to race, and to win.

Sure, but that's exactly what he didn't do in this one race (and the following two). This can easily be ascertained by comparing the data from PI and whichever race you want to compare it to, with the corresponding race situations. You will not find a comparable precedent from him or anybody else, apart from the Capirossi vs Spaan race, where his Italian mates were also "controlling their pace strategically".

In PI he had enough pace to lead and maintain a 5 second gap, which is what he and anybody does when in a position to do that. The fact that he won the race does not in any way invalidate what he was doing for most of the race. He disrupted Rossi's race to keep him behind Lorenzo, which he managed to do and still win the race, such was his superior pace on the day.

Both Rossi and Ianonne were faster than Lorenzo that day, and it was only MM's actions that kept them behind JL. It was lethal for Rossi to go from likely gaining another 3-7 points on Lorenzo, to losing that many points to him. That's what decided the championship, the PI race and the way MM raced in Valencia. It wasn't Sepang or the penalty. It wasn't a "Spanish conspiracy", MM's target was Rossi and didn't give a .... about Lorenzo.

Anyway, this is best talked about over some proper data analysis to reduce the vagueness of the emotional statements of the antiRossi camp.

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"Proper data analysis"?

You are an absolute joke of a poster and an ..... to boot.

You seem to think sector times are fully indicative of everything. Why it's almost positively Kanting in the audacity of which you base your premise on. Unless you have full access to tire wear data and what was in MM's head (something I can fully assure you that you have zero clue about) you cannot present any compelling case for your assertions period. If Rossi never said what he did at the Sepang '15 pre-race presser, you would not even be attempting to advance such ludicrous ........ as fact. Rossi himself admitted he lied about everything, something that is flying right over your head.

I just told you he spent numerous races in 2013 controlling his pace where necessary before going for a strategic overtake later in the race. He nearly did the same thing he did at Phillip Island '15 at Silverstone '13 when he had that sensational overtake on Lorenzo down into Brooklands that received standing ovations from the crowd. While he coughed up the lead not too long after that, he attempted the same move a second time on the final lap and nearly made it stick. That was one race in which Lorenzo's pace never dropped off the way it had at the prior races when MM made his overtake. MM would have known at Phillip Island that Lorenzo was going to remain strong, and rather than engage Lorenzo in a protracted battle over the final laps that he may, or may not have come out of on the winning side, he made the move at the very end to ensure Lorenzo had no further chance to fight back. You are conveniently ignoring this because it doesn't fit your ........ narrative.

Come back when you have something useful to argue. You're boring the hell out of me.

MdubSTYLIE said:

Lighten the .... up. If my negative opinion of a rider insults you then seriously block my posts. Have I offended you personally somehow?

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Why ask a question you already know the answer to Dub?

MdubSTYLIE said:

Lighten the .... up. If my negative opinion of a rider insults you then seriously block my posts. Have I offended you personally somehow?

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This is code for, if you can't lower yourself down to my level of sophomoric japery you are a humorless academic mope.

JPSLotus said:

I just told you blah blah blah

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I think you lack the aptitude and the attitude to discuss this properly.

Sorry but that means this is my last reply to you about this topic.

The Worst said:

I think you lack the aptitude and the attitude to discuss this properly.

Sorry but that means this is my last reply to you about this topic.

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/me puts back of hand to forehead

Oh no!

Whatever shall I do!

I'm so heartbroken that you can't take the heat!

In the meantime I recommend using the search function to see how the rest of your fellow travelers of the night fared here in October/November '15.

Iamapony said:

This must be the only sporting event series where the facts put forth by racing fans do not match the facts put forth by the results of the event. Doesn't anyone find that a bit odd?

You can argue that racing like Formula One suffers from the inability of the automobiles to pass because of lack of space on many tracks and size of the vehicles. This seems to be more difficult to use as justifications for the "fastest" racers ending behind "slower" racers with small motorcycles.

But, if it makes you happy, please give Rossi another championship, so that he has EIGHT. (I don't count warm-up series). Then perhaps he will go away and allow some space for the Zarcos of the world. I have seen enough Rossi to last me another lifetime, thank you so much.

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When guys like him start spouting about data and stats, you have to be prepared for ludicrous conclusions based on twisted interpretations of logical outcomes plausible only to the most rabid Valeban types. Cultists are by definition immune to critical thinking.

JPSLotus said:

Why ask a question you already know the answer to Dub?

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Like you have any place to talk about offending people.

JPSLotus said:

/me puts back of hand to forehead

Oh no!

Whatever shall I do!

I'm so heartbroken that you can't take the heat!

In the meantime I recommend using the search function to see how the rest of your fellow travelers of the night fared here in October/November '15.

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Take heart oh my brother. There'll be a replacement for him any minute now. Methinks I hear the 2:45 Troll Express rolling into the station as we speak.

MdubSTYLIE said:

Like you have any place to talk about offending people.

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Here's the difference between you and me...

I know why I offend people.

You offend people and then make a great show out of not understanding why Michael and others took offense to a number of your posts in this topic.

Keshav said:

Take heart oh my brother. There'll be a replacement for him any minute now. Methinks I hear the 2:45 Troll Express rolling into the station as we speak.

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He's furiously creating a new account as we type.

Maybe he can call it, "ReKanting".