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Fall out from the loss of Marco Simoncelli

surely there needs to be a set agenda in accidents or accidents where a rider is unconscious as with Kato.Tomisan and Marco they have been moved by what seemed Marshall's

when unconscious that can easily cause more damage than good



theres been many Red flags in BSB They never take a risk Higgsy etc is MEDICAL STAFF TO THE SCENE AND THEY CONTROL IT FROM THERE



That's exactly what they do in MotoGP. Very few differences, only difference seems to be approach of taking rider to equipment rather than vice versa as it is in BSB.



I heartily recommend everyone to read the link to the rulebook posted above, so at least everyone knows what we're talking about.
 
From the rules:





5.3.7.4 Track Ground Posts

These are placed at suitable locations and in sufficient numbers around the circuit

to provide rapid intervention and evacuation of the rider from danger with the

minimum of delay. The personnel must have sufficient training and experience to

take action autonomously and immediately in case of an accident.

Personnel:

• Doctor or paramedic (or equivalent) experienced in emergency care

• Sufficient number of stretcher bearers

Medical Equipment:

• Equipment for initiating resuscitation and emergency treatment

• Cervical collar

• Scoop stretcher

• Technical Equipment:

• Radio communication with race control and the CMO

Adequate shelter for staff and equipment should be available.



They have all they need to stabilize the rider at the ground post. They must be able to reach riders within 30 seconds (running across gravel traps, not as butch as skiiing, obviously).



The real problem is that in such cases, there is much more going on than just spinal injury. The official report on Simoncelli said he had neck and head trauma, as well as chest trauma. They had to drain blood from his lungs in the ambulance. Injuries in motorcycle racing are massively more complex than they are in football, because being hit by a 300lb motorcycle made of steel and traveling at 150 mph is a lot more forceful than being hit by a 300lb defensive end at 20 mph. The DE is wearing padding, too. Even in skiing, the energies are much lower, they may be reaching 70mph, but it's not often they slam into a tree at that speed. Injuries are therefore less complicated.



The problem with motorcycle racing injuries is that the first task of the medical personnel is triage, prioritizing the worst injuries, and often, all of the injuries are life-threatening.

Regarless of what the rules say at prexent we have to acknoledge that Kato, Tomi and marco's evac was far from ideal. A better safer way has to be found so that this does not occur again. whether that means new rules or different equipment injured riders must come first. I dont remember seeing F1 driver's evaced this way. They put an ambulance on track.
 
The rules are the problem. But it seems simple to me. If the rider is unresponsive, then his condition is unkown; code red (aka ensure vital stability before moving).



The official report on Simoncelli said he had neck and head trauma, as well as chest trauma. They had to drain blood from his lungs in the ambulance. Injuries in motorcycle racing are massively more complex than



All the more reason to have sophisticated,site deployed triage.



These guys deserve it.
 
The rules are the problem. But it seems simple to me. If the rider is unresponsive, then his condition is unkown; code red (aka ensure vital stability before moving).

Was all said last year with Tomi. Was all said back in 03 with Kato . When will they address this ???
 
Controversial as this comment may be but there is a major difference between what occurred on Sunday and what occurs in many other sporting arenas when such a situation occurs, that difference being 'live' situations.



On Sunday we saw marshalls do all they could to firstly protect Simoncelli from further injury by small barriers, thence to remove him from immediate danger by getting him off the circuit. Most of the initial attending marshalls do not appear to be wearing headsets and so would not have known the situation of the race (ie. Red Flag).



The fact is that all attending marshalls initially had to work believing that track remained 'live' as in 'race situation' and under those conditions their first requirement would become to get Simoncelli from further harm fast which is what they did try to do.



Yes, we do now that the Red was called quickly (by comparison to other situations) but did the attending marshalls?



Yes, there were some with headsets at the scene and they likely were communicating with their team, but you will also likely find that they would have been using a different radio channel and were likely not told of the Red flag, thus were treating the situation as 'live'.



Yes, they slip and drop him but I challenge people to run with a stretcher across an uneven surface and not stumble --- from experience I can tell you it is bloody difficult for four or more adults to make their way through gravel traps or across uneven ground at walking pace, never mind running.



Yes, the situation should be looked into and will, and no doubt each and every aspect will be reviewed with far more data than we have but we must never forget that motorcycle racing has inherent obstacles when it comes to rider injury treatment and in some cases, they are almost unique.





As an aside and on this same note, let us look at the treatment of Axel Pons as a comparison (and Krop ... any news?)











Gaz
 
As an aside and on this same note, let us look at the treatment of Axel Pons as a comparison (and Krop ... any news?)



Gaz



Very similar situation. Pons is OK, suffered a concussion and some cranial bleeding. He's flying back home on Wednesday.
 
Look at the title and his quotes. Is there a contradiction here? The title is sensationalism. I suppose some people just can't help themselves.



As someone who has written for a few local papers, I can tell you that not infrequently - the editor may shorten, subvert or completely change the meaning of the headline - and the writer himself has no say in the matter. It could easily be a case of exactly that.
 
I won't get involved too deeply because i'm not interested, but I do agree that they medical standards seem a bit behind that of F1 standards. maybe this is a catalyst needed to change that.
 
Hipocracy, selfishness and stupidity.

I am compelled to react to the bucketloads of hypocritical crap I have been reading from the likes of Talpa over Simoncelli,s tragic death.



quote.

"I also am feeling regret for over criticizing any rider in this sport, for this I do apologize for they risk their lives every time they get out on track, more often than not our passion gets in the way of our better judgement, a Human trait, and only through such a Human tragedy can this awful trait be highlighted."



Why does it take a tragedy like this for you to suddenly have remorse over your previous harsh and unrelenting attacks on Stoner. I have often said that we should be privileged to watch these guys put their lives on the line for our entertainment. And yet over the years I have read unrelenting and personal attacks on various riders for various reasons. On winning his second title, Stoner said that this one was more pleasing than the first because it would be harder for his detractors to say that he had any (unfair) advantage, vis a vis the bike, the tyres etc. Can you imagine how much fun it has been over the years for Stoner to have his ability and integrity questioned by the hordes of one-eyed Rossifans ( yes you Talpa, amongst many) , while putting on a fantastic show for all of us. Your new -found humility makes me want to puke.

Rider A should be riding because he only has a "tummy ache", or rider B should be riding because his injury is the same as rider C who rode with a similar injury. Rider D is forever my enemy because he brought my favourite rider down (ring any bells?). Sure we all are entitled to comment on various riders mistakes or ill-judged moves (as I do), but to go on and on and on for years continually denegrating a particular rider for one or two errors or bad behaviour has always stuck in my craw. And its funny that some of the worst perpetrators of rider hatred are amongst the most vocal current bleeding hearts. Simoncellis death was tragic, shocking and numbing. It kept me awake all night afterwards, but some of the posts here are rewriting history. Pigeon for example talked about the unfair witch-hunt Simo endured after taking Pedrosa out. I was tempted to respond , but suspected it would not come out right. Thankfully Krop responded to this for me. And many posts are talking about Simo in saint-like terms and how he would be the future star and champion. As far as his charisma goes, it seems to be limited to big hair and bouncing into fellow competitors. I would have thought it went a bit deeper than that.

And Curve, the king of sensitivity, posted a photo of a car careering into a group of cyclists, only days before Simos death. How many cyclists were killed.......or paralysed,..........or could never ride again. How many people commented on that, or criticised that photo?? Do you write eulogies for those people killed? No, its because some of you have met or photographed or been near Simoncelli, that you feel personally affected , and that is fair enough. BUT, I wish some of you had the imagination to react appropriately to the riders, and temper your criticisms, understanding that they risk their lives to put on a great show for us. It shouldn,t take a tragic incident like this for you to come to your senses.



Also, criticisms of behaviour by medical staff. What SHOULD have been done.............

As usual we all think we know better (thats the modern internet world- every ..... is suddenly an expert because they can post something that the world can read). Again, thankfully, Krop has given some information about the logistics of medical treatment at the track. Involved medical procedures cannot be done on the track or in the ambulance, but only in the medical centre where the appropriate facilities are available. Treatment must be prioritised-it is no good stabilizing a spinal injury if there is no circulation, or there is a chest full of blood, Reminds me a bit of when a mate had a bad bike accident and was lying unconscious and was cyanotic (blue) because he wasn,t breathing properly. A friend suggested that I shouldn,t remove his helmet because of potential neck injuries. I did, obviously because a spinal injury is immaterial if you are dead, and fortunately he started breathing and survived.



Same situation with climate change deniers- many think they know better than the 98% of these professional scientists (who have no vested interest in fabricating information, unlike all the industrial company spokespeople who have , they feel , a huge vested interest in the debate). I can see exactly the same situation in another 20-30 years, when the .... really starts to hit the fan and contemporary Talpas will be apologising for their previous misguided views. Trust me, it WILL happen.





So...........don,t castigate me for insensitivity over Simoncellis death. I have felt deeply saddened and feel strongly for his friends and family. However I think it is inappropriate for certain posters to use this as an excuse to rewrite history or to think that in the current climate they can make statements with a personal bias and demand no contrary views.

Marco Simoncelli was a brave and bold rider, and was a big part of the show they call motogp, a show that gives me enormous pleasure and takes up a lot of my time following. I will miss him in this wonderfull sport . Please let us remember him properly by treating the remaining riders with a bit more respect and gratitude.
 
Hipocracy, selfishness and stupidity.

I am compelled to react to the bucketloads of hypocritical crap I have been reading from the likes of Talpa over Simoncelli,s tragic death.



quote.

"I also am feeling regret for over criticizing any rider in this sport, for this I do apologize for they risk their lives every time they get out on track, more often than not our passion gets in the way of our better judgement, a Human trait, and only through such a Human tragedy can this awful trait be highlighted."



Why does it take a tragedy like this for you to suddenly have remorse over your previous harsh and unrelenting attacks on Stoner. I have often said that we should be privileged to watch these guys put their lives on the line for our entertainment. And yet over the years I have read unrelenting and personal attacks on various riders for various reasons. On winning his second title, Stoner said that this one was more pleasing than the first because it would be harder for his detractors to say that he had any (unfair) advantage, vis a vis the bike, the tyres etc. Can you imagine how much fun it has been over the years for Stoner to have his ability and integrity questioned by the hordes of one-eyed Rossifans ( yes you Talpa, amongst many) , while putting on a fantastic show for all of us. Your new -found humility makes me want to puke.

Rider A should be riding because he only has a "tummy ache", or rider B should be riding because his injury is the same as rider C who rode with a similar injury. Rider D is forever my enemy because he brought my favourite rider down (ring any bells?). Sure we all are entitled to comment on various riders mistakes or ill-judged moves (as I do), but to go on and on and on for years continually denegrating a particular rider for one or two errors or bad behaviour has always stuck in my craw. And its funny that some of the worst perpetrators of rider hatred are amongst the most vocal current bleeding hearts. Simoncellis death was tragic, shocking and numbing. It kept me awake all night afterwards, but some of the posts here are rewriting history. Pigeon for example talked about the unfair witch-hunt Simo endured after taking Pedrosa out. I was tempted to respond , but suspected it would not come out right. Thankfully Krop responded to this for me. And many posts are talking about Simo in saint-like terms and how he would be the future star and champion. As far as his charisma goes, it seems to be limited to big hair and bouncing into fellow competitors. I would have thought it went a bit deeper than that.

And Curve, the king of sensitivity, posted a photo of a car careering into a group of cyclists, only days before Simos death. How many cyclists were killed.......or paralysed,..........or could never ride again. How many people commented on that, or criticised that photo?? Do you write eulogies for those people killed? No, its because some of you have met or photographed or been near Simoncelli, that you feel personally affected , and that is fair enough. BUT, I wish some of you had the imagination to react appropriately to the riders, and temper your criticisms, understanding that they risk their lives to put on a great show for us. It shouldn,t take a tragic incident like this for you to come to your senses.



Also, criticisms of behaviour by medical staff. What SHOULD have been done.............

As usual we all think we know better (thats the modern internet world- every ..... is suddenly an expert because they can post something that the world can read). Again, thankfully, Krop has given some information about the logistics of medical treatment at the track. Involved medical procedures cannot be done on the track or in the ambulance, but only in the medical centre where the appropriate facilities are available. Treatment must be prioritised-it is no good stabilizing a spinal injury if there is no circulation, or there is a chest full of blood, Reminds me a bit of when a mate had a bad bike accident and was lying unconscious and was cyanotic (blue) because he wasn,t breathing properly. A friend suggested that I shouldn,t remove his helmet because of potential neck injuries. I did, obviously because a spinal injury is immaterial if you are dead, and fortunately he started breathing and survived.



Same situation with climate change deniers- many think they know better than the 98% of these professional scientists (who have no vested interest in fabricating information, unlike all the industrial company spokespeople who have , they feel , a huge vested interest in the debate). I can see exactly the same situation in another 20-30 years, when the .... really starts to hit the fan and contemporary Talpas will be apologising for their previous misguided views. Trust me, it WILL happen.





So...........don,t castigate me for insensitivity over Simoncellis death. I have felt deeply saddened and feel strongly for his friends and family. However I think it is inappropriate for certain posters to use this as an excuse to rewrite history or to think that in the current climate they can make statements with a personal bias and demand no contrary views.

Marco Simoncelli was a brave and bold rider, and was a big part of the show they call motogp, a show that gives me enormous pleasure and takes up a lot of my time following. I will miss him in this wonderfull sport . Please let us remember him properly by treating the remaining riders with a bit more respect and gratitude.

I notice you did not mention the flack Rossi gets from a lot of poster's in your rant. Especially regarding his sexuality !

I dont wish harm on any person let alone a gp rider, i also do not regret calling them a .... when i think they are acting like one. I WILL continue to do so.

As for the Treatment of riders on track. Are you for real?? We have had 3 fatal accident's in motogp and moto2 over the past decade and in all incidences the stretcher was dropped. If you cant see there needs to be a radical re-think on the way riders are treated on track then your welcome to your nieve opinion. I doubt the rest of the gp riders would agree with you.
 
Bunyip, it wasnt enuf for u that Talpa expressed reflective regret, u had to use this occasion to settle scores. U just made urself look much worse than u assigned him. I hope he doesnt reply, as u do not deserve it.
 
Bunyip, it wasnt enuf for u that Talpa expressed reflective regret, u had to use this occasion to settle scores. U just made urself look much worse than u assigned him. I hope he doesnt reply, as u do not deserve it.



Exactly it does not even warrant a reply
 
Bunyip, it wasnt enuf for u that Talpa expressed reflective regret, u had to use this occasion to settle scores. U just made urself look much worse than u assigned him. I hope he doesnt reply, as u do not deserve it.

Exactly, now is not the time to be settling scores with or pointing fingers at other posters.



Btw, and hoping my curiosity is not too inappropriate, does any one know why stoner (according to gpone) accompanied marco's family along with marco's friend valentino back to Italy? I was not aware he was particularly friendly with marco, and wondered whether he was representing the riders in general.



I think Bunyip may have a point about the medical care though. It wouldn't have made any difference this time but could have, and might in the future. Kropotkin's point about motogp as opposed to american football is well made, but F1 faces similar exigencies and seems able to provide more immediate medical care. As it happens I know, or have had a beer with anyway, the guy who saved mika hakkinen's life trackside at the Australian F1 GP when it was in Adelaide , He subsequently worked at a hospital where I once worked.
 
Exactly, now is not the time to be settling scores with or pointing fingers at other posters.



Btw, and hoping my curiosity is not too inappropriate, does any one know why stoner (according to gpone) accompanied marco's family along with marco's friend valentino back to Italy? I was not aware he was particularly friendly with marco, and wondered whether he was representing the riders in general.



Bunyip has a point with the medical care I think. It wouldn't have made any difference this time but could have, and might in the future. Kropotkin's point about motogp as opposed to american football is well made, but F1 faces similar exigencies and seems able to provide more immediate medical care. As it happens I know, or have had a beer with anyway, the guy who saved mika hakkinen's life trackside at the Australian F1 GP when it was in Adelaide , he subsequently worked at a hospital where I once worked.



I haven't been able to confirm that Stoner did accompany Marco back to Italy. I have seen other articles, tweets and videos but no mention of Stoner. If anyone has any further confirmation of this (apart from the GP One article), please post it.
 
Why does it take a tragedy like this for you to suddenly have remorse over your previous harsh and unrelenting attacks on Stoner.



Tragedies invoke strong emotions. They also make people look inwards and question things about their own behaviour. The point is not the timing of when the person realises they have done wrong but whether or not they do realise they have done wrong.
 
bojuhl, jumkie etc.........You miss the point. I,m not settling old scores. I have no old scores to settle.



The question is WHY oh WHY does it take a terrible event to awaken a degree of humanity in people. Why are they so lacking in imagination that they don,t understand the consequence of there actions until they are hit with a sledgehammer. You praise Talpa for his (very late ) awakening. I suppose it is better than nothing, but it shouldn,t take all this to cause enlightenment. People say Casey is defensive. Well why the feck do you think that happened. In a sense he has been damaged by negative fans comments over the years .............and now finally some of you have a bit of remorse.................. Its a bit rich really!



Jumkie, are you ready to forgive Pedrosa??
 
Bunyip, i wont carry this exchange any further. Read the RIP thread, it will do u good. U may find some answers to life there.
 
Tragedies invoke strong emotions. They also make people look inwards and question things about their own behaviour. The point is not the timing of when the person realises they have done wrong but whether or not they do realise they have done wrong.



 

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