DIE dmg DIE!!!!!!!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Jul 15 2009, 07:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>The integrity of the sport is gone.

+1

(I see what they are "trying" to do, and in principle its ok, but the way they're forcing the issue is just ridiculous).

What will the premier racers do? (I realize the up and coming guys may have no choice, like mladin said, there is a culture of measured tone because of DMG lash back; but what about the marquee names like Bostrom, Zemke, Hayes, Hacking, Haydens, etc. Will they acquiesce? Will the up and comers who have great support like Blake Young under the mentorship of Mr. Schwantz say .... off to DMG and go to WSBK? (I know Mladin won’t go, so will he retire in protest?)

Lex, what does your crystal ball say?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Jul 16 2009, 02:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>And once again throws their own rulebook out the window when it come to helping Buell

This out of the rule book

AMA Pro American Superbike motorcycles must be street certified for use in the United States and be available at the time of competition from U.S. retail dealers. There must be sufficient quantity available such that any person wanting to buy one for racing purposes can do so in a timely fashion. … Importation must be completed by June 1st of the current season.”

Even though i was done, i am double done now.The integrity of the sport is gone.,Hell, this year alone they made Suzuki run 2008 models because there was a delay in 09 shipments and until a certain number of them arrived in the States, it was a no go. Now we hear Buell is allowed to make a race only bike available only to racers and will make its debut this weekend at Mid Ohio. This should hopefully be the last straw for the jap OEM's. Rumor has it that Suzuki is done,no funding what so ever for 2010, with Honda and Kawasaki leaning that way also. Yamaha [The Judas of bike racing in America} is said to be onboard, why i dont know. This is just another step in the direction of the BOT Nascar Style. I dont care if the ....... thing runs 15th-20th and blows up on the second lap,thats not the point. Our worst fears since the day Nascar took over are coming true. The Jap OEMS will leave,everyone will be riding Buells and DMG can say that everybody quit and it was their choice to leave. A new series is a must!

+1

shakes head

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Jul 16 2009, 02:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>And once again throws their own rulebook out the window when it come to helping Buell

This out of the rule book

AMA Pro American Superbike motorcycles must be street certified for use in the United States and be available at the time of competition from U.S. retail dealers. There must be sufficient quantity available such that any person wanting to buy one for racing purposes can do so in a timely fashion. … Importation must be completed by June 1st of the current season.”
I can't believe this ...., blatant abuse of the their own rules to give favor. What about all the talk about parity and bringing fairness into the series? I'm happy to see a company like Buell compete against the big boys, but they should play by the rules that everyone else has to.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Jul 14 2009, 08:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Say what you want about Superbike Planet,sometimes they are funny and they certainly dont try to hide their disdain for DMG

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bootsakah @ Jul 16 2009, 07:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I can't believe this ...., blatant abuse of the their own rules to give favor.

You got that right! You're gonna love this article: LINK


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <div class='quotemain'>Buell 1125RR: Not Road Legal, Yet Superbike Legal
by staff
Wednesday, July 15, 2009
Here is the press release from Buell regarding their 1125RR, (note second R in designation) a bike not road legal, yet somehow Superbike legal, as per DMG. Isn't it interesting how the Japanese manufacturers are knocked back to Superstock spec this season in Superbike, yet Buell gets to enter a full-on Superbike that isn't even street legal?

As is becoming characteristic with Buell they just can't bear to merely bring a gun to a gunfight, it's always gotta be a Gatling gun (of their own design) to a fist-fight. Article continues with press release...

So this is about it, then?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Jul 15 2009, 06:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>And once again throws their own rulebook out the window when it come to helping Buell

This out of the rule book

Povol, the Buell is 75cc under the limit. It isn't that big a deal. DMG made Suzuki run the 2008 bike until 2009 bikes could arrive b/c Suzuki have been rightly or wrongly accused of ruining AMA SBK by withholding equipment and refusing rules changes even when it was obvious the sport was in ruin (prior to DMG's arrival).

How screwed up are Suzuki? They cry like little girls about DMG's plans, yet this season they are probably going to win 1000cc and 600cc titles. They are actually better off. They spend less and they have more to brag about.

The sport still has plenty of meaning and Edmondson has been more than fair to the Japanese manufacturers. Edmondson is using the Japanese bikes as control bikes and he's telling all other competitors, "thou shalt not have an advantage over the Japanese bikes". Contrast that with WSBK. AMA is the fairest production based series for the big 4 outside of Japan. Everywhere else they adopt WSBK rules that are clearly skewed towards Ducati.

People need to get their heads screwed on straight. The status quo in bike racing IS political nonsense. The rules around the world are not fair and they are not written by impartial governing officials. It is difficult to trust the rules package in the AMA b/c it is constantly changing, but Edmondson has made it very clear that he is tired of writing the rules.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Jul 16 2009, 11:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Everywhere else they adopt WSBK rules that are clearly skewed towards Ducati.
So logically Mr. Edmondson drew up a set of rules that are clearly skewed towards Buell. What a visionary...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cankles @ Jul 16 2009, 09:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>+1

shakes head
+2^^^^ & spits

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Jul 16 2009, 11:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Povol, the Buell is 75cc under the limit. It isn't that big a deal. DMG made Suzuki run the 2008 bike until 2009 bikes could arrive b/c Suzuki have been rightly or wrongly accused of ruining AMA SBK by withholding equipment and refusing rules changes even when it was obvious the sport was in ruin (prior to DMG's arrival).

How screwed up are Suzuki? They cry like little girls about DMG's plans, yet this season they are probably going to win 1000cc and 600cc titles. They are actually better off. They spend less and they have more to brag about.

The sport still has plenty of meaning and Edmondson has been more than fair to the Japanese manufacturers. Edmondson is using the Japanese bikes as control bikes and he's telling all other competitors, "thou shalt not have an advantage over the Japanese bikes". Contrast that with WSBK. AMA is the fairest production based series for the big 4 outside of Japan. Everywhere else they adopt WSBK rules that are clearly skewed towards Ducati.

People need to get their heads screwed on straight. The status quo in bike racing IS political nonsense. The rules around the world are not fair and they are not written by impartial governing officials. It is difficult to trust the rules package in the AMA b/c it is constantly changing, but Edmondson has made it very clear that he is tired of writing the rules.

what a load!

Austin & Lex, are you aware you've reach some millstones? 5k & 3k respectively. Well done, you officially have no lives. Welcome to my world.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Jul 16 2009, 09:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>People need to get their heads screwed on straight. The status quo in bike racing IS political nonsense. The rules around the world are not fair and they are not written by impartial governing officials. It is difficult to trust the rules package in the AMA b/c it is constantly changing, but Edmondson has made it very clear that he is tired of writing the rules.

Lex, you make a few good points and some wild leaps. Wouldn't it have been better to "rewrite" the rules then introduce the BuellRR, rather than introduce the BuellRR, in blatant violation of the rules?

Why then have rules?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jul 16 2009, 12:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Austin & Lex, are you aware you've reach some millstones? 5k & 3k respectively. Well done, you officially have no lives. Welcome to my world.
I was not aware I had reached said milestone, thanks for the reminder. In defense of not having a life, I've amassed 5,000 posts since the site began in 2005. Regardless, I really do need more of a life.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jul 15 2009, 08:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Lex, what does your crystal ball say?

I don't know. Press releases with inside information have been few and far between. It takes months of digging to piece together the AMA's troubles.

I'm inclined to believe that a breakaway is very difficult. Three manufacturers can't supply enough WSBK equipment. They could lure privateers from the AMA by allowing them to have equal equipment, but why bother starting a breakaway? Furthermore, who's going to cover the MIC? Not FOX. FOX is in bed with DMG and they won't risk the NASCAR gravy train for motorcycling.

MIC has only 1 hope---InFront. If they managed to get a powerhouse company like InFront behind them, InFront might include the MIC series for free in TV negotiations with European TV stations. If InFront and MIC collaborate, the series would probably be a success, but the entire operation would be another giant charity case. If the motherships pulled advertising budgets, the entire series would collapse.

I think a standoff is probable. The major manufacturers will be waiting for DMG's contract to expire, at which point they will make a push to send DMG packing. Edmondson is going to continue frequent trips to Japan to see if he can get the Japanese manufacturers to fire American management and help him grow motorcycling in the United States.

Unfortunately, what SHOULD happen is least likely of all. They need to ditch the safety bike and make the safety car safe by letting the riders queue behind it in pit lane. SBK needs to be left alone. The state of tune is fine and the racing is decent. DSB needs to move into the FX realm of tune. FX was an experimental free for all anyway; DSB isn't much different. Finally, the manufacturers and Edmondson need to compromise and bring proper SS back with standing starts. They can put all of the privateers into SS b/c it's cheap but still relatively prestigious.

So little is required to fix the AMA right now. This is the least necessary time for a break away series. A break away should have happened when Suzuki violated the spirit of TC ban (or when the TC ban occurred). We all could have been spared a half decade of miserable decline.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Jul 16 2009, 12:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Povol, the Buell is 75cc under the limit. It isn't that big a deal. DMG made Suzuki run the 2008 bike until 2009 bikes could arrive b/c Suzuki have been rightly or wrongly accused of ruining AMA SBK by withholding equipment and refusing rules changes even when it was obvious the sport was in ruin (prior to DMG's arrival).

How screwed up are Suzuki? They cry like little girls about DMG's plans, yet this season they are probably going to win 1000cc and 600cc titles. They are actually better off. They spend less and they have more to brag about.

The sport still has plenty of meaning and Edmondson has been more than fair to the Japanese manufacturers. Edmondson is using the Japanese bikes as control bikes and he's telling all other competitors, "thou shalt not have an advantage over the Japanese bikes". Contrast that with WSBK. AMA is the fairest production based series for the big 4 outside of Japan. Everywhere else they adopt WSBK rules that are clearly skewed towards Ducati.

People need to get their heads screwed on straight. The status quo in bike racing IS political nonsense. The rules around the world are not fair and they are not written by impartial governing officials. It is difficult to trust the rules package in the AMA b/c it is constantly changing, but Edmondson has made it very clear that he is tired of writing the rules.

Lex,you just aint getting it brother. You cant have rules for 3 manufacturers and a totally different set of rules for another. This not a displacement issue,its an integrity issue. You say they ...... with Suzuki because of their defiance to DMG, if thats the case, they have lost already. As a governing body, you cant hold grudges and play the i will show you game,while at the same time disregarding your own rules to favor another. This has got to the point where i think the whole Buell issue in the DSB and now , Superbike, is the only way DMG can get anyone to talk about the series. Its like the old saying, any press is good press, at least they are talking about you. If anyone cares to look back, i predicted this would happen and why. It is playing out almost exactly like i thought it would. No jap factory bikes is their vision and the Harley bike crowd is their dream

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jul 16 2009, 09:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Lex, you make a few good points and some wild leaps. Wouldn't it have been better to "rewrite" the rules then introduce the BuellRR, rather than introduce the BuellRR, in blatant violation of the rules?

Why then have rules?

Like everyone else, I'm frustrated by the constant rules changes to give Buell special privileges. In the long run though, I think it will end up hurting them b/c people can't interpret their results. Are they winning b/c of the rules? or have they actually built a better bike?

I'm torn b/c it seems ridiculous that the AMA has members who are intentionally suppressing American motorcycle manufacturers. Yet, on the other side, it seems preposterous that a manufacturer who is so far behind the competition should even be allowed on the race track.

The 1125R was never intended for race use as evidenced by the displacement. DMG are letting Buell race in SBK so they can gather data for a new 1200cc road bike. At the very least, the AMA can allow Buell to develop a machine that fits WSBK displacement specs. If Buell starts breaking into the top 10 routinely, we will all have reason to complain. The bike is technically illegal and DMG will be harming the privateers they claim to be helping.

What choice does DMG have? If Honda, Suzuki, and Kawasaki drop out, what can DMG do but bring in BMW, Aprilia, and Buell?

I didn't notice I have 3k. Thanks, Jumkie.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (povol @ Jul 16 2009, 10:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Lex,you just aint getting it brother. You cant have rules for 3 manufacturers and a totally different set of rules for another. This not a displacement issue,its an integrity issue. You say they ...... with Suzuki because of their defiance to DMG, if thats the case, they have lost already. As a governing body, you cant hold grudges and play the i will show you game,while at the same time disregarding your own rules to favor another. This has got to the point where i think the whole Buell issue in the DSB and now , Superbike, is the only way DMG can get anyone to talk about the series. Its like the old saying, any press is good press, at least they are talking about you. If anyone cares to look back, i predicted this would happen and why. It is playing out almost exactly like i thought it would. No jap factory bikes is their vision and the Harley bike crowd is their dream

I do get it, I just have a different perspective.

In my mind, allowing twins to have an extra 200cc capacity is identical to writing a rule that says DUCATI gets to have a bigger engine. We're willing to accept it because they use fewer cylinders and they get less tuning rules in WSBK.

This is somewhat similar. Buell had no idea when they designed and built the 1125R that someone in the AMA was going to write rules that would allow them to race. They apparently had no idea that WSBK was going to move to 1200cc either.

As a result they built a road bike that is designed to handle stably, provide wind protection, and run a cool operating temperatures. The other manufacturers built race bikes for the road b/c they knew what the racing rules would be, and DMG made sure that its new racing rules coincided with bikes built by the major manufacturers.

The AMA is allowing Buell special rules b/c they are racing a bike that is 75cc under the limit for twins. Buell didn't know the AMA rules when they built the bike so the AMA is allowing them to modify the road bike into something that resembles a proper racer.

Is it questionable? OF COURSE. Is it morally abominable?

Pov, Boots, (ok you too lex). Feel free to vote in this poll.'

POLL

Ya just gotta love superbikeplanet, eh!


FYI: I personally couldn't make up my mind between the Tron bike or the Unicorn. Both seemed and excellent choice. I went with the Tron bike instead, .... the planet.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jumkie @ Jul 16 2009, 08:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>Pov, Boots, (ok you too lex). Feel free to vote in this poll.'

POLL

Ya just gotta love superbikeplanet, eh!


FYI: I personally couldn't make up my mind between the Tron bike or the Unicorn. Both seemed and excellent choice. I went with the Tron bike instead, .... the planet.
I voted for Tron.

I saw the name Goddard and went for it thinking it was the Benelli triple. Then I read it after I voted and saw it was a Petronas. Damn. I'm surprised one of the options wasn't Dale Jr.'s Chevy Impala SS.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mylexicon @ Jul 16 2009, 07:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotemain'>I do get it, I just have a different perspective.

In my mind, allowing twins to have an extra 200cc capacity is identical to writing a rule that says DUCATI gets to have a bigger engine. We're willing to accept it because they use fewer cylinders and they get less tuning rules in WSBK.

This is somewhat similar. Buell had no idea when they designed and built the 1125R that someone in the AMA was going to write rules that would allow them to race. They apparently had no idea that WSBK was going to move to 1200cc either.

As a result they built a road bike that is designed to handle stably, provide wind protection, and run a cool operating temperatures. The other manufacturers built race bikes for the road b/c they knew what the racing rules would be, and DMG made sure that its new racing rules coincided with bikes built by the major manufacturers.

The AMA is allowing Buell special rules b/c they are racing a bike that is 75cc under the limit for twins. Buell didn't know the AMA rules when they built the bike so the AMA is allowing them to modify the road bike into something that resembles a proper racer.

Is it questionable? OF COURSE. Is it morally abominable?
As always, I feel you make some great counter points Lex. In regards to being 75cc under the expected 1200cc for twins I can almost understand (but don't agree with) them making considerations for Buell, but for God's sake, at least wait until the season is over. This rewriting or reinterpreting of the rules throughout the season is unsettling the almost non-existent credibility they have in the first place. I like some of their ideas, but they are pushing too much too fast. DSB is a cool concept, I like the idea of a mixed bag of bikes, but fairness in the form of power to weight should exist. But then I hate the fact they got rid of the much beloved SS series. I think Nicky Hayden said a very similar thing a while ago in an interview when asked about what he thought of the AMA now, that they were trying too many changes in just one year. Nothing makes them look worse then to treat long time participants (and fans) like enemies and then give special favor to new comers.

In the end though, Povol may have said it right, any news is good news, and maybe they are just masters of creating drama so people would show interest again?