This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Dani Pedrosa?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Babelfish @ Sep 18 2007, 11:02 PM) [snapback]91565[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Equal machinery? About as equal as now I'd say.

First we have to agree on what the "edge" is is about. Are we talking psycological edge or rider ability?

Psycological:
Last year doesn't count for much. Stoner has won more races than he crashed out last year and that says a lot. I'd say that todays standing and his eight wins this year count for a lot more than a few lost fights last year. Why should Stoner dwell over a few fights last year when he can nuture his ego with all his victories this year? No winner would do that ... ever.

Rider ability:
Again, last year counts for little. Stoner are not only on a new bike, but also on a new team and a year older. A year that seems to have done miracles. He is a different person this year. Pedrosa might experience the same thing in the future but as of today he is much the same rider as last year. Pedrosa of last year might have drawn the longest straw on his HRC Honda against the one bike team lowest on the pecking order with Stoner of last year on board. Pedrosa of today on his HRC is no match for Stoner on the Duc. Equal machinery is an illusion. Even if they were equal, one machine suites one rider, another machine suits the other rider. Pedrosa has been able to cope with the dubious Honda front of the last two years, others don't. That doesn't make him a genious, just a particular rider with the ability to cope with that particular problem. The Duc on the other hand obviously fits Stoner perfectly and he is able to squeeze out every hundreds of a second inside that machine like no one else can. Doesn't make him a genious either but he's doing pretty well.

Both are young and if they can use the advantages they have and work around the weaker points with different machines in different situations we have something close to geniouses. Time will show.
As of now I would put my money on Stoner both in rider ability and psycological edge.


I am also glad to see you back with a typically intelligent post. I think pedrosa is as talented as anybody, and would not count him out at all in the future, but i agree with several others that he has not shown sufficient appetite for a fight as yet in the premier class.

I agree that stoner has the edge at the moment (perhaps the stoner fanboy in me coming out) . Even if pedrosa did have the advantage on stoner a few years ago, people can improve , particularly when they are teenagers. If this were not so, they could give the championship to the best 16 year old five years later, and not bother having the races.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Frizzle @ Sep 19 2007, 04:50 AM) [snapback]91593[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Are you saying the Repsol Honda and the LCR Honda was equal machinery?
Why don't we ask Carlos Checa his opinion.
<



Yes, in the 990 era, and don't be silly.

Casey had his RC211V upgraded to Dani's status midseason (satellite bike with factory parts), and he still enjoyed his meeting with Mrs Gravel.

And you don't compare a 990 V5 Honda satellite bike to a 800 V4 satellite bike, there is so much more difference, apart from the obvious engine difference.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(phleg @ Sep 19 2007, 09:31 PM) [snapback]91757[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Yes, in the 990 era, and don't be silly.

Casey had his RC211V upgraded to Dani's status midseason (satellite bike with factory parts), and he still enjoyed his meeting with Mrs Gravel.

And you don't compare a 990 V5 Honda satellite bike to a 800 V4 satellite bike, there is so much more difference, apart from the obvious engine difference.


I think you are being silly now.

Casey has clearly had a better bike/tyre package this year, just as pedrosa did last year and I think pedrosa's advantage was more pronounced in the second half of last year when stoner did most of his crashing. I think the LCR honda was a third string bike for most of last year, and to say it was equivalent to the hrc honda is about as sensible as saying the current d'antin bike is equivalent to stoner's ducati.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(an4rew @ Sep 18 2007, 07:16 PM) [snapback]91520[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
....

If Casey had so much fight then why did Dani beat him plenty of times in 250.


Dani has 1st rate factory bike and tyres. Don't forget that the 800 isn't the first bike that was built to suit Dani - style and size wise.

Until Stoner got the factory Ducati seat, he has not has the preferred treatment that Pedrosa has had. The fight was there and he showed it on more than a few occasions.

Stoner showed his potential last year as well. You must have forgotten that Melandri squeeked out a win over him to prevent him from being the youngest Motogp winner.

Dani is decent on the breaks. He is just a very tidy rider. If things start to slip and slide on him or he is in a heavy duel - he backs off....

But if you give the guy a clear track ahead of him, a very well set up bike and he just may disappear from the best on the planet.....

Have him scrap it out for positions and he may not make the podium.
My question to the Pedrosa apologists... How would Prince Pedrosa fair on the LCR Honda?

I see him crashing out or running very far down the pack.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(michaelm @ Sep 20 2007, 06:17 AM) [snapback]91755[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
. Even if pedrosa did have the advantage on stoner a few years ago, people can improve , particularly when they are teenagers. If this were not so, they could give the championship to the best 16 year old five years later, and not bother having the races.



here here. some people dont seem to understand this point though. would like to look back at the time when they were beating riders when they where at their raw stage.

if that makes pedrosa feel happy that at one stage he was better then go for it, but it wont make him a better rider for the future.

a prime example would be leyton hewitt and rodger federer. when they were both 22 years old, leyton had already won US open and Wimbledon and acheved world #1 ranking. their head to head record was prob 4-2 in hewitts favour, then rogers game finally matured, and leyton in the last 10 matches hasnt even come close to winning a set off him. and we now know how many grand slams hes won.

but we all can say but leyton was beting rodger in 2000-2002. so leyton must be better??
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(michaelm @ Sep 19 2007, 10:17 PM) [snapback]91755[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I am also glad to see you back with a typically intelligent post. I think pedrosa is as talented as anybody, and would not count him out at all in the future, but i agree with several others that he has not shown sufficient appetite for a fight as yet in the premier class.

Thank you.
I agree with that (the pedrosa view that is) and I suspect he will show a greater hunger in the years to come.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<div class='quotemain'>
I agree that stoner has the edge at the moment (perhaps the stoner fanboy in me coming out) . Even if pedrosa did have the advantage on stoner a few years ago, people can improve , particularly when they are teenagers. If this were not so, they could give the championship to the best 16 year old five years later, and not bother having the races.


Not only are they young and improve but putting Stoner on a new bike and a new team totally change the picture. The team and bike obviously suits Stoner very well, just as the LCR Honda didn't suite him last year. A more complete rider sould have been been able to ride more around the problems. It's a fact that different bikes suite different riders. A few are able to transform both bike and riding style to become as fast as the equipment allow but Stoner were a rookie and was not heard regarding setup. Therefore I find last years bikes totally irelevant. It doesn't matter if the LCR was as good as the HRC bike or not. The way it was it didn't suite Stoner. But that was last year, and seeing how Stoner has been able to cope with problems this year I suspect he is close to becomming that compelte rider.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinky @ Sep 19 2007, 11:57 PM) [snapback]91793[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
so how .... is caparossi if ducati si the best bike on the paddock???

you assume both bikes are the same,mabe there quite different,it may be to expensive and time consuming to put both bike on the grid capable of winning, mabe one is the test bike and one is the best of all they have, w3hat do we no ?
 
Stoners been winning pretty well from day one hasnt he? I doubt the original Duc is sub-standard and even Capirossi's bike is better than Barros' (who often beats him) ..

Theres no excuse for the other Duc riders to be so poor (in comparison to Stoner), thats plain to see.. Ultimately, the result is Ducati making wholesale changes for 08, out with the old (Barros, Capi, Hoff) in with the new (Guintoli, Elias, Melandri)
 
The question also is to know how good D'Antin's bikes are?

Probably brilliant when they unload them from the truck in January but after is anybody's guess...

And about Capirossi... well, I think Suzuki has made a big mistake and should have tried to sign a youngster like Dovi or another 250 good rider.

For Pedrosa... I think is biggest problem is Puig. This guy controls him so much it is unbelievable.

And also Dani is extremely shy and somehow I think he affects him in the way he deals with things. Maybe that's why he needs Puig so much.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinky @ Sep 19 2007, 11:57 PM) [snapback]91793[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
so how .... is caparossi if ducati si the best bike on the paddock???


Capirossi is past it and that is that...

Capirossi had his one and only shot at the title in 2006, and Sete ruined it for deLoris...never will that shot come again...

If Loris was as great as some belive then he would be on the verge of the title this year and not Casey....
----------

LCR and Casey; even if he did get the same equipment as Dani...he could not make the package work for him and still crashed...Why? Tyres!

Bridgestone suit Casey....much like they worked wonders for Tamada...if Casey had the Honda equal to Dani but on Bridgestone then who knows...
-----------

Dani will be the number 1 HRC rider next year, everyone else including the KY Jelly Kid (aka the Hick), will get parts after Dani...and Dani with Puig will lead all development. Number 2 Honda rider will be Dovi not Nicky, remember that since Honda owe Dovi for not supporting him fully this year.
 
I don't think Dovizioso will have any development work.

He's the new kid in the block.

I think one of the problems for Honda is that they haven't had a good development rider for quite a while now.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MigsAngel @ Sep 20 2007, 01:10 AM) [snapback]91831[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>


Capirossi had his one and only shot at the title in 2006, and Sete ruined it for deLoris...never will that shot come again...


Dani will be the number 1 HRC rider next year, everyone else including the KY Jelly Kid (aka the Hick), will get parts after Dani...and Dani with Puig will lead all development. Number 2 Honda rider will be Dovi not Nicky, remember that since Honda owe Dovi for not supporting him fully this year.

Excellent post. Sadly and to my utter frustration, you are correct.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinky @ Sep 20 2007, 12:57 AM) [snapback]91793[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
so how .... is caparossi if ducati si the best bike on the paddock???


Not .... at all, just doesn't suite his style. He would have done a lot better on a Yamaha with it's very good chassi and high corner speed.
Just like Stoner couln't figure out the LCR Honda last year, Loris can't figure out the Ducati of this year. Only shows that he isn't the perfect rider, and with all his years in MotoGP that's hardly a surprice.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(coriolis @ Sep 20 2007, 01:55 AM) [snapback]91834[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I think one of the problems for Honda is that they haven't had a good development rider for quite a while now.
True. But, lets not under estimate the value of the crew chief who has to translate the rider's "feelings" into some thing the engineers can use. Burgess's track record as a crew chief is probably better than Rossi's as rider. I think losing him to Yamaha was a bigger loss to Honda than Rossi.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(phleg @ Sep 20 2007, 06:31 AM) [snapback]91757[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Yes, in the 990 era, and don't be silly.

Casey had his RC211V upgraded to Dani's status midseason (satellite bike with factory parts), and he still enjoyed his meeting with Mrs Gravel.

And you don't compare a 990 V5 Honda satellite bike to a 800 V4 satellite bike, there is so much more difference, apart from the obvious engine difference.


This is the reason Why!...from casey Stoner...

Q. What is the most annoying question you keep getting asked?

A. Why did you crash so much last year? I know the reason and I think for a lot of people it should be obvious what the reason is. The way we have been able to step it up this year without the crashes. There were too many times that the bike would change from one session to the next or from qualifying to the race and it was nothing that the team was doing. Other people were playing games. I am not going to say who but it has been obvious over the years how certain companies have played with their riders. ‘We want you to win, yep, but we don´t want you to win,’ and it is obvious that that has happened. It wasn’t obvious to me last year. Every time I crashed I was in the gravel trap scratching my head and saying ‘what the heck is happening here, I’m losing the front for no reason’. I get off the brakes, just touch the gas, I was already picking the bike up. It all started with the crash in Barcelona, I went in there the same as I had in practice and it was gone. Mugello, that was a bit more my fault, but the other crashes, starting with Barcelona -- I did not know what to do, I did not know why I was crashing and why it was my fault.




Speedtv.com....http://www.speedtv.com/articles/moto/motogp/38522/?page=1
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(michaelm @ Sep 20 2007, 06:42 AM) [snapback]91760[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I think you are being silly now.

Casey has clearly had a better bike/tyre package this year, just as pedrosa did last year and I think pedrosa's advantage was more pronounced in the second half of last year when stoner did most of his crashing. I think the LCR honda was a third string bike for most of last year, and to say it was equivalent to the hrc honda is about as sensible as saying the current d'antin bike is equivalent to stoner's ducati.



Exactly.

Ask any rider which bike they would have liked to have ridden last year between the 2 and I guarantee the response would be unanimous.
 
I think that one of the big advantages for Casey this year was he had a factory team around him, capable of adjusting the bike to his liking what a team like LCR may not do by lack of ressources.

Not to take anything from him obviously
<
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(CSCVAW @ Sep 21 2007, 03:58 AM) [snapback]91956[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
This is the reason Why!...from casey Stoner...

Q. What is the most annoying question you keep getting asked?

A. Why did you crash so much last year? I know the reason and I think for a lot of people it should be obvious what the reason is. The way we have been able to step it up this year without the crashes. There were too many times that the bike would change from one session to the next or from qualifying to the race and it was nothing that the team was doing. Other people were playing games. I am not going to say who but it has been obvious over the years how certain companies have played with their riders. ‘We want you to win, yep, but we don´t want you to win,’ and it is obvious that that has happened. It wasn’t obvious to me last year. Every time I crashed I was in the gravel trap scratching my head and saying ‘what the heck is happening here, I’m losing the front for no reason’. I get off the brakes, just touch the gas, I was already picking the bike up. It all started with the crash in Barcelona, I went in there the same as I had in practice and it was gone. Mugello, that was a bit more my fault, but the other crashes, starting with Barcelona -- I did not know what to do, I did not know why I was crashing and why it was my fault.
Speedtv.com....http://www.speedtv.com/articles/moto/motogp/38522/?page=1

and this is why i dont like stoner, he blames everybody but himself.
he could just admit he was learning the limits, but no he has to imply <u>honda </u>someone kept altering his bike without his knowledge,total bollocks. so why was it just him then ? did the big H have something against him ?
he forgets we all watched what was happening, no throttle control on the 990. thank god for tc on the 800 duc. damn i was at valencia last year and saw him crash in the warm up then again in the race, i suppose someone sneaked in and altered is bike in that short space of time.,
<
<


anyway, i thought this thread was about pedrosa
 

Recent Discussions