Dani Pedrosa?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(roger-m @ Sep 19 2007, 01:34 AM) [snapback]91443[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
i have to agree form what ive seen so far, both stoner and pedrosa are great talents but casey does have more fight in him.


Yeah Roge Pedrobot seems confused, bewildered or just out classed! And also Casey is not the rider that he was in the 125's and the 250's he’s about 1000% BETTER!!!

All I can say and Casey can say is this....Bring Them On...Who Ever!!!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mylexicon @ Sep 18 2007, 09:55 AM) [snapback]91472[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>

Two guys have found ways to beat Rossi. One made last corner manuevers, the other one uses straight line speed to make time and save his tires, then breaks Rossi on the last lap.

Pedrosa tried to win on lap 20 whatever, the same way he's tries to win from the start---run for his life. It shows he has a race dogma and he's not in GP to make any kind of improvement to his game.

I agree with mylexicon. On equal machinery and tires, Rpossi seems to have the endge mentally and in skill. However, people who slam Pedrosa are probably unaware of his accomplishments.

When he moved up from 250cc to MotoGP (keep in mind he was making a change from two strokes to 4, and a huge increase in HP and weight) he finished second in the opening round at Jerez At his fourth ever MotoGP appearance he won his first MotoGP race in Shanghai. He took a total of 7 podiums that year -- his first ever in MotoGP. Ofcourse, he was on a great bike. but, lets keep in mind that Pedrosa is a fast learner.

The next year, the current one, he had to start all over again on the 800cc bike. Give the man a break. Now that the Honda has improved, he will become a force to reckon with.

Regarding Stoner, I think he may that he held back a little in Estoril so he could win the championship in Australia.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<div class='quotemain'>Regarding Stoner, I think he may that he held back a little in Estoril so he could win the championship in Australia.

Yes you might have a valid point there but I don't think so, motoGP hasn’t come down to such theatrics (i hope so???) as the fans would still come to Phillip Island irrespective if Stoner was the champ or will be the champ at the Island!!!

We love and admire Casey for what he has done in 2007 and admire his courage, determination and his professionalism in the way that he has done the job and has handled himself on and off the track!!!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Duc999 @ Sep 17 2007, 11:02 PM) [snapback]91191[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Pedrosa didn't show anything. He did not have a Catalunya performance. He did not mixed it up heavily with Rossi. He actually showed that he was vulneralbe to some of Rossi's fun and games...

Rossi got the best of him...


i think the better man certinatly won, Rossi was livening up the race and made it exciting ...were as Pedrosa was just..........Pedrosa

Rossi does know how to get the best out of his tires though -- especially with the Michelins, which seem to go ff towards the end of race.. One of the rookie mistakes other riders seem to make is try to go as fast as possible all the time.. rossi, on the other hand, seems to go just as fast as necessary to win.

Pedrosa quote below:

"I was able to pass Stoner but, when Rossi came past me and was in front, I knew that he was not pushing at 100 per cent. With Stoner and Hayden catching, this was risky, so I went for the overtake to try to up the pace because I didn't want them to catch up. This allowed Rossi to watch me for a while, which I think was useful for him in the closing laps."

Rossi quote below:

"I had a great battle with Casey but, most of all, with Dani, and it was fantastic fun to ride like this again - at the maximum and with a lot of good passes. When I passed Dani for the first time, I tried to go, but he was too good, so I knew it was going to come down to the last few laps. At the end, he started to slide a little and I knew I was stronger on the brakes than him in some places, so I was able to make a good pass."

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(CSCVAW @ Sep 18 2007, 07:08 PM) [snapback]91495[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Yes you might have a valid point there but I don't think so, motoGP hasn’t come down to such theatrics (i hope so???) as the fans would still come to Phillip Island irrespective if Stoner was the champ or will be the champ at the Island!!!

We love and admire Casey for what he has done in 2007 and admire his courage, determination and his professionalism in the way that he has done the job and has handled himself on and off the track!!!

i feel a little sorry for stoner seeing as though phillip island is a majorly rossi loving track

Casey is more raw looking, Dani is more smooth but its the bikes which makes the riders the way they seem.

If Casey had so much fight then why did Dani beat him plenty of times in 250.

Dani's big problem in MotoGP is braking, hes really weak there and Rossi knows it more than anyone else.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mylexicon @ Sep 18 2007, 05:55 PM) [snapback]91472[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
So now we're down to semantics? One last gasp before you admit Pedrosa can't take the fight to Rossi, mainly because he is inexperienced and unskilled when dueling is necessary?

Anyone who has watched a lot of GP can't help but chuckle when they see Pedrosa put his head down when it's obvious he doesn't have the tire or the skill to runoff. All he did by upping the pace was wear what little tire he had left so he couldn't mount a charge once Rossi got by.

Two guys have found ways to beat Rossi. One made last corner manuevers, the other one uses straight line speed to make time and save his tires, then breaks Rossi on the last lap.

Pedrosa tried to win on lap 20 whatever, the same way he's tries to win from the start---run for his life. It shows he has a race dogma and he's not in GP to make any kind of improvement to his game.

Contrast that with Stoner who has ridden with Rossi even though most times he has the power and the tire to leave him behind. The experience he's getting by sparring with Rossi will give him a huge advantage when the Ducati isn't as dominant as it is now.


You really dont like him do you?!


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(crvlvr @ Sep 18 2007, 07:56 PM) [snapback]91509[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Rossi does know how to get the best out of his tires though -- especially with the Michelins, which seem to go ff towards the end of race.. One of the rookie mistakes other riders seem to make is try to go as fast as possible all the time.. rossi, on the other hand, seems to go just as fast as necessary to win.

Pedrosa quote below:

"I was able to pass Stoner but, when Rossi came past me and was in front, I knew that he was not pushing at 100 per cent. With Stoner and Hayden catching, this was risky, so I went for the overtake to try to up the pace because I didn't want them to catch up. This allowed Rossi to watch me for a while, which I think was useful for him in the closing laps."

Rossi quote below:

"I had a great battle with Casey but, most of all, with Dani, and it was fantastic fun to ride like this again - at the maximum and with a lot of good passes. When I passed Dani for the first time, I tried to go, but he was too good, so I knew it was going to come down to the last few laps. At the end, he started to slide a little and I knew I was stronger on the brakes than him in some places, so I was able to make a good pass."



... thank you Valentino, took the words right out of my mouth

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(D Wheeler @ Sep 18 2007, 04:03 PM) [snapback]91388[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>

Dani has edge on stoner
Stoner has edge on rossi
rossi has edge on pedrosa
this is the way I see it?


Strogly disagree with that one. We talk of pure psycological edge here?

Rossi owns Pedrossa's .... There is probably no one Rossi has passed as many times this season as Pedrosa. Wasn't it about ten times in the first race? Of course Pedrosa passed Rossi allmost as many times but doing so purly by engine power doesn't gain any self confidense when it doesn't even stick and you are passed on the brakes, every ....... time.
Dani has no edge on Stoner. Rather the oposite. What happened two years ago and more doesn't count for ..... When Stoner could leave last years missarable results behind, he sure as hell doesn't count the fights with Pedrosa. Pedrosa can think or want what ever he likes, it doesn't give him an inch of advantage over Stoner. Winning like Stoner has this season give him all the confidence he needs and Pedrosa knows that.

The Stoner vs Rossi is a much more complex one. I'd say it would depend from race to race. Stoner might have an edge when he can use the Ducati power. If they are in a fight and Stoner answere as he has done so far by simply powering past at the first straight available, he might give up sooner than later right now. On the other hand, Rossi know his bike has been underpowered compared to the Duc this year. That plays into a psycological advantage. He will write off losses and any mistakes as trying the impossible and put his head down and fight to the line. The yamaha gets better and that give him more confidence in the engine as well. Does that give him an edge over Stoner? I think not. Stoner is as hard as they get right now. The championship up fro grabs and all. Besides he has shown remarkable mental strength all season not making any serious mistakes even when pressured by the "living ledgend" (my god, remember ).
There is no clear advantage for any one here. Stoner and Rossi play on equal terms when it come to psyclogical advantage. It's probably the first time we ever had someone challanging Rossi like that and thats all good. I bet even Rossi enjoy just that

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Babelfish @ Sep 18 2007, 09:58 PM) [snapback]91546[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Dani has no edge on Stoner. Rather the oposite. What happened two years ago and more doesn't count for ..... When Stoner could leave last years missarable results behind, he sure as hell doesn't count the fights with Pedrosa. Pedrosa can think or want what ever he likes, it doesn't give him an inch of advantage over Stoner. Winning like Stoner has this season give him all the confidence he needs and Pedrosa knows that.


Dani has the edge on Stoner on equal machinery, he was winning their duels last year, which were VERY good to watch (when the director thought so).

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Babelfish @ Sep 18 2007, 01:58 PM) [snapback]91546[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>

Rossi owns Pedrossa's ....

What's up Babel. How you been man. Good to read you. Hey, this is a great post, I agreed with everything.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Racejumkie @ Sep 18 2007, 11:20 PM) [snapback]91551[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
What's up Babel. How you been man. Good to read you. Hey, this is a great post, I agreed with everything.


Who hacked the junki's account?

Been very busy.
- Riding my own bike, even at the track a couple of times
- Repairing the house, insulation and new outside panels
- Resigning my job, working on alternatives, while stil wrking 110% with existing customers, that I plan to take with me

The last couple of races before Estoril really didn't inspire me much.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(phleg @ Sep 18 2007, 11:18 PM) [snapback]91550[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Dani has the edge on Stoner on equal machinery, he was winning their duels last year, which were VERY good to watch (when the director thought so).


Equal machinery? About as equal as now I'd say.

First we have to agree on what the "edge" is is about. Are we talking psycological edge or rider ability?

Psycological:
Last year doesn't count for much. Stoner has won more races than he crashed out last year and that says a lot. I'd say that todays standing and his eight wins this year count for a lot more than a few lost fights last year. Why should Stoner dwell over a few fights last year when he can nuture his ego with all his victories this year? No winner would do that ... ever.

Rider ability:
Again, last year counts for little. Stoner are not only on a new bike, but also on a new team and a year older. A year that seems to have done miracles. He is a different person this year. Pedrosa might experience the same thing in the future but as of today he is much the same rider as last year. Pedrosa of last year might have drawn the longest straw on his HRC Honda against the one bike team lowest on the pecking order with Stoner of last year on board. Pedrosa of today on his HRC is no match for Stoner on the Duc. Equal machinery is an illusion. Even if they were equal, one machine suites one rider, another machine suits the other rider. Pedrosa has been able to cope with the dubious Honda front of the last two years, others don't. That doesn't make him a genious, just a particular rider with the ability to cope with that particular problem. The Duc on the other hand obviously fits Stoner perfectly and he is able to squeeze out every hundreds of a second inside that machine like no one else can. Doesn't make him a genious either but he's doing pretty well.

Both are young and if they can use the advantages they have and work around the weaker points with different machines in different situations we have something close to geniouses. Time will show.
As of now I would put my money on Stoner both in rider ability and psycological edge.

Equal machinery? I'd say that the ducati's power advantage has seemed to have vanished. the Honda and Yamaha seem to be on par. How I wish I could reset the season and restart it with today's bikes. Ofcourse, we would have throw those Michelins out though.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(phleg @ Sep 19 2007, 07:18 AM) [snapback]91550[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Dani has the edge on Stoner on equal machinery, he was winning their duels last year, which were VERY good to watch (when the director thought so).



Are you saying the Repsol Honda and the LCR Honda was equal machinery?
Why don't we ask Carlos Checa his opinion.


Dani's a top shelf rider, but Vale has his measure on the brakes it seems. But then again he has everyones measure on the brakes.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(an4rew @ Sep 18 2007, 08:16 PM) [snapback]91520[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Dani is more smooth but its the bikes which makes the riders the way they seem.


Dani is the new Biaggi...his riding style is very similar in smoothness and making it look effortless...and like Biaggi will never win the Big Class title because MotoGP demands a more 'do or die' take'm at any corner riding style which Dani does not have...

Here's my favourite picture of Dani!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Son of Doohan @ Sep 19 2007, 08:12 PM) [snapback]91637[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Here's my favourite picture of Dani!


I thought you were supposed to take your shoes off when facing Mecca!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(crvlvr @ Sep 19 2007, 01:37 AM) [snapback]91576[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
Equal machinery? I'd say that the ducati's power advantage has seemed to have vanished. the Honda and Yamaha seem to be on par. How I wish I could reset the season and restart it with today's bikes. Ofcourse, we would have throw those Michelins out though.


When it's down to accelleration and top speed the Yamaha still lack some before it is on par with both Honda and Ducati. Slip streaming on a 1000m straight should result in a passing attempt were the second bike is at least alongside the frontrunner before the braking point.
In Portugal we saw the Yamaha kissing the rear of the Honda time after time without generating high enough speed to come up alongside. That is not being on par.

That said, the Honda seems to be very close to matching the Ducati now and Yamaha has followed to some degree.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(krusty @ Sep 19 2007, 12:10 PM) [snapback]91650[/snapback]<div class='quotemain'>
I thought you were supposed to take your shoes off when facing Mecca!