Catalunya Race: Spoilers

cliché guevara said:

i'm a big de puniet fan but other than that test ride he didn't do much.he had a good chance last year to be up there with rossi/hayden but he blew it.as of now hes not the clear number one in crts. bautista is NOT on simoncellis bike, rather aoyamas bike. still a honda but not a factory bike and in my ranking the 3rd best machine (1. yamahas, 2. factory honda , 3. satellite hondas)

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Fair enuf.



However, my ranking on bikes is as follows: 1. Honda factory, Yamaha factory, 3. Honda/Yama Sats. 4. Ducati 5. CRTs The diff we see between the sat bikes of Yam/Honda is the fact that Yamaha sats have two better riders. My $.02

Not to mention that Cal and Dovi are pushing each other to be # 1 on that team and getting a factory ride cn be a reality as opposed to the Honda that seem to be reserved for only the best.

Jumkie said:

Fair enuf.



However, my ranking on bikes is as follows: 1. Honda factory, Yamaha factory, 3. Honda/Yama Sats. 4. Ducati 5. CRTs The diff we see between the sat bikes of Yam/Honda is the fact that Yamaha sats have two better riders. My $.02

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hawkdriver said:

Not to mention that Cal and Dovi are pushing each other to be # 1 on that team and getting a factory ride cn be a reality as opposed to the Honda that seem to be reserved for only the best.

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Good point. Absolutely. These two are racing day in day out with a very attractive and possible carrot. Its almost a forgone conclusion that the Honda sat riders will never see a factory seat, which seems to be reserved for Marc Marquez.

hawkdriver said:

I think it's going to come down to money for Jlo, the only competition for him if CS leaves will be Rossi and that's only if he can manage to get onto a good bike.

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This is a point that we have all missed while we were busy contemplating the future "Goat" question with Casey in it. But now, the next "Goat" may actually be Lorenzo. Who if he stays with Yamaha, has the real possibility of reeling off a string of titles till kingdom come.

I don't see any real challengers and I should have said the only way Rossi beats him is on a different # 1 bike with the factory going all hands on deck to get him winning so they can enjoy the PR of bringing him back. I think Honda would like it, they would be loved haha

Jumkie said:

This is a point that we have all missed while we were busy contemplating the future "Goat" question with Casey in it. But now, the next "Goat" may actually be Lorenzo. Who if he stays with Yamaha, has the real possibility of reeling off a string of titles till kingdom come.

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hawkdriver said:

Not to mention that Cal and Dovi are pushing each other to be # 1 on that team and getting a factory ride cn be a reality as opposed to the Honda that seem to be reserved for only the best.

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?! Since Valentino Rossi left Honda at the end of 2003, it has been many years before they managed to have (or rather, accepted that they needed) the best rider again.



BTW I think Yamaha is closer to Honda now. With 1000cc they can make enough power, and all the rest was pretty good already. It is enough that Honda has a little problem with tires, and immediately Yamaha looks stronger.

Jumkie said:

This is a point that we have all missed while we were busy contemplating the future "Goat" question with Casey in it. But now, the next "Goat" may actually be Lorenzo. Who if he stays with Yamaha, has the real possibility of reeling off a string of titles till kingdom come.

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Jumkie said:

This is a point that we have all missed while we were busy contemplating the future "Goat" question with Casey in it. But now, the next "Goat" may actually be Lorenzo. Who if he stays with Yamaha, has the real possibility of reeling off a string of titles till kingdom come.

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Can I be smug here an say I predicted Jorge was the future when he arrived in Motogp. And I also predicted Stoner would never win another race during the 2010 season. Can't win em all eh?

J4rn0 said:

?! Since Valentino Rossi left Honda at the end of 2003, it has been many years before they managed to have (or rather, accepted that they needed) the best rider again.



BTW I think Yamaha is closer to Honda now. With 1000cc they can make enough power, and all the rest was pretty good already. It is enough that Honda has a little problem with tires, and immediately Yamaha looks stronger.

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Smoking again? They got Pedro and developed around him because they 'thought' he was the best. They just got it royally wrong. Why do you think everybody believes Marc Marquez is on tap for HRC?



Agree, Yamaha is closer. But not better than Honda.

cliché guevara said:

also i think the yamaha might be the best bike at the moment.

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Agree again. I think the Honda's adaptation to this year's Bridgestones is a big problem. I'm not exactly Stoner's biggest fan, but the chatter has to be the biggest reason he finished behind a satellite Yamaha yesterday.

Finally, after 5 rounds Pedrosa started to push a little bit. But Jorge just showed everyone that this is his season. He is on the game more than any rider. Yamaha has the better package compared to Honda. Neither Pedrosa or Stoner could push the bike to its limit. I mean the chatter issue is really getting serious for the guys. Jorge's first overtook over Pedrosa really showed how Unstable the Honda is in brakings. I already know Pedrosa sucks under brakings but if you look at his rear wheel they really have problems this year. Pedrosa did not even made a single fast lap on the race and Jorge was on him every single lap.

J4rn0 said:

?! Since Valentino Rossi left Honda at the end of 2003, it has been many years before they managed to have (or rather, accepted that they needed) the best rider again.



BTW I think Yamaha is closer to Honda now. With 1000cc they can make enough power, and all the rest was pretty good already. It is enough that Honda has a little problem with tires, and immediately Yamaha looks stronger.

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And one Casey Stoner has shown them the way again and how much of a difference having the best on your bike is. The championship he brought to them was pure domination. Pedders hasn't been able to get the job done and if CS can get the weather to cooperate he'll go back to his winning ways. I wouldn't call having the wrong tire a little problem, especially for CS who has had problems with the soft tire in the past and probably partly why he chose the harder tire. Do you seriously see Bradl or Bautista doing anything on the Honda, I haven't even seen flashes of having the "it" factor with either of them. Maybe one of them will get the seat until Marquez moves up but Honda isn't putting a grid filler on one of those bikes for to long and if Pedro was the answer they wouldn't have hired Casey.



The problem is people watch one race and start saying stupid things like Casey wasn't pushing hard or that the Yam is better while Yam is going through an intensive amount of parts testing to improve the bike. If it wasn't for the weather and the arm pump we would be seeing the regular CS domination show, eww I hate defending him but come on the guy is allowed one mediocre(for him) showing before we can crown Jlo and yam. If anyone thinks CS isn't gonna bring it to Jlo for the rest of the season they are crazy.

Beef Supreme said:

Agree again. I think the Honda's adaptation to this year's Bridgestones is a big problem. I'm not exactly Stoner's biggest fan, but the chatter has to be the biggest reason he finished behind a satellite Yamaha yesterday.

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Funny thing, the main ....., and reason for the Control tyre reg was that the tyre choices/manufacturers were influencing the racing too much......I would say that the tyres are influencing the racing more than ever before, and far more negatively-whilst costing the manufacturers millions-and removing the spectacle.

Stick CRT up your ... Dorna and just bring back Michelin and Dunlop........Aprilia, BMW, Suzuki and Kawasaki will all be jumping in then.



Stoner has chatter, Rossi is now saying he has big chatter with the alu swingarm, Pedders has chatter, Hayden has chatter.....the list goes on. Piss-poor selection, no real disparity between soft/hard.....both still only work in a very small setup window. Still no intermediate option, and full wets that seem to be mostly inadequate. When you think about it....a rider has a serious problem with rubber now, and they have to re-build the bike instead of making a new tyre......probably couldn't be more backward.



A big whoooh-hah about how the new tyres are going to go-off forcing riders to manage them this season................, the only management happening is from the fuel computer, the race lap-times are as metronomic as ever. After watching the Moto2 race, and then Motogp-my partner rather innocently asked me 'how come the motogp bikes don't pass each other? they are so in-line' I said-'it's complicated'.........



There will always be a fundamental flaw with trying to produce a control set of rubber options for a field of racing motorcycles that are suppose to be prototypes.....in that you will never get it right for all of them.....you may get it right for some of them-some of the time-and the rest don't have a chance.



Remove regs in order Ezy;



1. Control Tyre

2. Fuel limit

3. Engine reg



and then place a bunch of RF interference with black spots in the airspace of every circuit-watch what happens.

hawkdriver said:

And one Casey Stoner has shown them the way again and how much of a difference having the best on your bike is. The championship he brought to them was pure domination. Pedders hasn't been able to get the job done and if CS can get the weather to cooperate he'll go back to his winning ways. I wouldn't call having the wrong tire a little problem, especially for CS who has had problems with the soft tire in the past and probably partly why he chose the harder tire. Do you seriously see Bradl or Bautista doing anything on the Honda, I haven't even seen flashes of having the "it" factor with either of them. Maybe one of them will get the seat until Marquez moves up but Honda isn't putting a grid filler on one of those bikes for to long and if Pedro was the answer they wouldn't have hired Casey.



The problem is people watch one race and start saying stupid things like Casey wasn't pushing hard or that the Yam is better while Yam is going through an intensive amount of parts testing to improve the bike. If it wasn't for the weather and the arm pump we would be seeing the regular CS domination show, eww I hate defending him but come on the guy is allowed one mediocre(for him) showing before we can crown Jlo and yam. If anyone thinks CS isn't gonna bring it to Jlo for the rest of the season they are crazy.

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Actually I don't believe that Honda have the advantages they had last year, Yamaha has improved-a lot, and Jorge is riding better than ever. Stoner has a very unique way of piloting the bike, and you can't really say that the weather is going to be perfectly aligned to Stoner's preference all season long. I think Casey will try to bring it all season long, but Bridgestone will not. And Honda, now that Stoner is retiring won't pump millions upon millions into building the bike around Stoner's style.



On the contrary, at Catalunya I believe Stoner was pushing as hard as he could.....the others were just better on the day- Simple. These problems Stoner will continue to have if the weather continues to vary as it has across the race weekend, IMO because he doesn't spend enough time on track in QP and FP trying variances.

Did anyone else see Dovi's staff pouring water into the Monster energy drink can?

cliché guevara said:

i wouldn't have shaken his hand too, i guess neither would have lorenzo or anyone else that had an issue with his erratic riding at that time

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That move at Le Mans into Museum was inches away from being one of the greatest passes since Schwantz went around the outside of Rainey into the Melbourne loop in '91.



Regarding Bautista - yeah, I concede that is a satellite bike without the almost full factory support that has been afforded in the past to Gresini riders such as Simoncelli, Gibernau and Kato - I even heard some murmurings that the LCR Honda is closer to full spec because HRC have their eye on Bradl. But that Gresini ride is still a coveted prototype seat in the series - and although Showa shod, potentially competitive - and by his own admission isn't blighted by the chatter afflicting his HRC Ohlins counterparts. He basically has the core of Aoyama's crew - but I disagree with your assertion that the specification of the bike is similarly inherited off Hiro. San Carlo inject a substantial amount of money into that side of the garage still, and I would venture that internally Alvaro is only a few races behind the Repsol boys. I would say it's somewhere midway between Hiro's satellite effort and the full factory machine ridden by Marco.



That said, both Estoril and Catalunya are strong circuits for Alvaro - perhaps you're right..I guess two sixth places are where you'd expect him to be given the circumstances.

livewoutlimit said:

Did anyone else see Dovi's staff pouring water into the Monster energy drink can?

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U dont think any of them actually drink their sponsors stuff do u?

Arrabbiata1 said:

and although Showa shod, potentially competitive - and by his own admission isn't blighted by the chatter afflicting his HRC Ohlins counterparts.

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I dont discount Showa. In fact, i had this very discussion with a Spanish suspension tech who has expperience in CEV, Euro rookies cup, and lower category GP. He told me everybody thinks Ohlins is the best, but what people dont understand, he said, is that the brand is prevalent because the company has decided to go racing and invest money so they become the most noticeable name. He said, its as "good" as one rider saying Red Bull is better than Monster. He said, when its ur job to dismatle the parts into their most basic pieces, one sees the materials and tolerances used. He goes on to say, sometimes older models are better but because the new model is what they push, then thats what u'll get. Anyway, it was a lengthy conversation, of which i walked away realizing again, that what is what is not always easily dicernable. And its the business and politics of racing that drives most of the ...., not necessarily the best stuff on the planet. Much like the question of talent, which in GP takes a back seat to marketability.

Nicky and Spies, 2013 Suzuki factory riders

JohnnyKnockdown said:

Nicky and Spies, 2013 Suzuki factory riders

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AMA supersport?

Jumkie said:

U dont think any of them actually drink their sponsors stuff do u?

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My favorite moment was around 2001, I think, when Ben Bostrom was on Greg White's Speed Channel show. He was pretending to drink from a can that wasn't even opened.



Classic.