2024 Round 21 Valencian GP of Catalunya

MdubSTYLIE said:

This post is absolutely a low blow to someone not here to defend himself. I refuse to be brought back into this but thank you for reminding me who you are. A leopard can't change his spots can he? Thanks Michael for being the guy you are and defending former members.

Please don't ....... pm Keshav, don't ....... reply. Please just let sleeping dogs lie.

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Fine by me. I like who I am. If three or four members don't like me, when literally dozens here get along with me just fine, I can live with that. Trying to be liked by 100% of all people is a huge waste of time. There have been many people who hate The Dali Lama, Martin Luther King, Mother Theresa etc. Hell . . . there were and continue to be literally thousands of Indians who detest Gandhi . . . and one of them actually murdered him. I'm here to talk about racing, not to win the popular vote. I like my spots just fine.

Now its YOUR turn to NOT reply, assuming you don't want drag down the forum with yet another flame war.


BTW - Pecco is not here to defend himself either.

Sennas_Caress said:

He posts, he then gets told to delete.
Then the press are being told to ignore the incident.

I'm smelling a deal between Dorna, FIM and Ducati.

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I do wonder if the same would happen now Ducati are established champions. Back then, it was almost like Dorna and the FIM would pander to every Ducati whim until they were championship winners again.

Sennas_Caress said:

He posts, he then gets told to delete.
Then the press are being told to ignore the incident.

I'm smelling a deal between Dorna, FIM and Ducati.

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Which frankly is disgusting to think about.

But I suspect a deal is precisely what happened.

It's just sad the lower classes are held to different standards than the GP guys are. What does it teach any young rider or even young person about responsibility if they watch guys in the top class get away with this stuff?

JPSLotus said:

Which frankly is disgusting to think about.

But I suspect a deal is precisely what happened.

It's just sad the lower classes are held to different standards than the GP guys are. What does it teach any young rider or even young person about responsibility if they watch guys in the top class get away with this stuff?

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Exactly. These are where my issues are with what happened. Not the mistake itself but the actions or inactions I should say that are a result of what happened.

MdubSTYLIE said:

As I have stated before. My reason for continuously bringing this up is not because of the behavior itself. Its due to the total lack of responsibility for said action. Its for Jack defending his action and dorna allowing them to attack a member of the media for asking a justified question about his DUI. I will never let him forget his actions as much as he wants to. Because he has zero remorse for it and taken zero accountability for it. As long as he is motogp and I am here expect to see little reminders of something he wants to forget. Because making mistakes in life isn't about forgetting them and moving on. Its about remembering them and learning from them. Thats how you stop history from repeating itself.

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You are not reminding him of anything though. He doesn't even know you (or anyone on here) exists. The only people you are reminding are the people who post on here, who have no connection to him, other than some being fans of his. So you are "crusading" to people who have no involvement to the incident at all.
Of course, this is a discussion forum and we are all here to do just that, but having said that, there is a point where discussing a topic turns into flogging a dead horse...

#22 said:

I do wonder if the same would happen now Ducati are established champions. Back then, it was almost like Dorna and the FIM would pander to every Ducati whim until they were championship winners again.

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I'd up the ante on that thought.

Now that Marc Marquez, the Catalan champion, who is on the bike that can take him past all former World Champions bar the untouchable (yet always touching feeling) Agostini, he'd be sacked without as much as an Instagram video.

JPSLotus said:

Which frankly is disgusting to think about.

But I suspect a deal is precisely what happened.

It's just sad the lower classes are held to different standards than the GP guys are. What does it teach any young rider or even young person about responsibility if they watch guys in the top class get away with this stuff?

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I can't remember a sport where deals of this nature isn't done. It doesn't make it right, I understand.

Saffa said:

You are not reminding him of anything though. He doesn't even know you (or anyone on here) exists. The only people you are reminding are the people who post on here, who have no connection to him, other than some being fans of his. So you are "crusading" to people who have no involvement to the incident at all.
Of course, this is a discussion forum and we are all here to do just that, but having said that, there is a point where discussing a topic turns into flogging a dead horse...

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Yea I get that. But this is a motogp forum so I'll keep doing it. Its not like I am posting this in the Pornhub comments section. I don't intend to make this debate happen every time I make a joke. BUt I will continue to make those jokes to make sure everyone remembers.

Remember remember the 5th of July
The drunk driving treason and plot
I know of no reason
Why the drunk driving treason
Should ever be forgot

JPSLotus said:

Which frankly is disgusting to think about.

But I suspect a deal is precisely what happened.

It's just sad the lower classes are held to different standards than the GP guys are. What does it teach any young rider or even young person about responsibility if they watch guys in the top class get away with this stuff?

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MdubSTYLIE said:

Exactly. These are where my issues are with what happened. Not the mistake itself but the actions or inactions I should say that are a result of what happened.

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It's called precedence. I've said this countless times with other incidents. The very same people who used to applaud Rossi for his aggressive battle style (immediate overtakes, breaking a riders rhythm) and subsequent collisions like Jerez 05, Laguna 08 and more, absolutely berate Marquez when he emulates the riding style of his childhood idol. This is why I support firm hands on top level athletes for this very reason. If they get away with it, then you aren't getting the genie back in the bottle.

Sennas_Caress said:

I'd up the ante on that thought.

Now that Marc Marquez, the Catalan champion, who is on the bike that can take him past all former World Champions bar the untouchable (yet always touching feeling) Agostini, he'd be sacked without as much as an Instagram video.

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Not beyond the realms of possibility. Look at Capirossi. He was Ducati's darling child, almost won the title in 06 had it not been for his Catalynua crash. Less than a year later his and the teams relationship was irreperable because Stoner came in and dominated.

We won't see such a chasm, but if Marquez becomes the dominant rider in the factory team, it wouldn't surprise me if Baganaia's contract with them is his last.

michaelm said:

I obviously agree with you having seen the consequences from my own life experience, and I imagine your deeply held view while correct in itself probably also reflects life experience. The guy also wasn't marginally over the legal limit, he crashed a car into a ditch despite also obviously having highly elite motor abilities/reflexes when sober. He could probably also have afforded to buy the road itself and the land around it between the place he left and the place he was going, and cleared other traffic from the thoroughfare, in which case he could have done whatever he liked as far as I am concerned as long as he had no passengers. You are also correct that associates like Jack Miller have expressed annoyance with the issue being mentioned and I am not aware of him offering anything in the way of regret or admission of error.

I have considered that I might have been over the top for attaching blame to him because of the sins of Valentino as I perceive them, and he does seem to have become his own man in that regard.

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Y'know, what I find objectionable is the way forum members seem to feel that Bagnaia owes them a personal/public apology, as if they'd been in the car with him at the time. The event didn't occur on the race track, so I can't help but wonder why race fans feel he owes them an amends. Nobody here knows what steps he has taken privately to make things right. This is a weird dynamic I see with fans of sports figures and athletes where fans seem to somehow believe they are entitled to an apology for - whatever - from public figures, for things that have occurred in private moments, as if fans owned said celebrity or sports figure. When I pay down my yearly fee to Dorna, I'm paying to watch racing. Nothing in the contract implies the riders have any obligation to live by my standards of conduct. Lecturing someone about ethics and moral standards is something one is obligated to do with one's children.

People "assume" Pecco is unrepentant, but nobody on this forum has ever personally spoken with him and because he hasn't PUBLICLY Tweeted about it or held a press conference to satisfy the public's voracious need to see him sufficiently abase himself they feel free to make assumptions about him. Its the inverse of hero worship; the flip side of the self-appointed guardians of morality's dynamic of living vicariously through the lives of celebrities.

#22 said:

Clearly you have not visited the Motorsport.com comments section. Marc Marquez could cure cancer and some people would still bring up that incident and 2015

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It is mostly old Wosi, a considerable sophist in his day, and a few acolytes. Fairly futile I would have thought since the one person in the GP bike racing world who cares the least about being criticised by Rossi and the Valeban is MM, to whom it only seems to provide motivation. Also imo says more about Valentino and them than it does about MM that they continue to wally on about it 9 years on.

Those denizens of that forum have adopted Uccio’s conspiracy theory about PI 2015 whole, MM apparently let Lorenzo past and held Valentino back, in the process contriving Iannone’s 3rd place finish ahead of Valentino as well even though Crazy Joe was behind him. Valentino himself has recently doubled down claiming MM had dominant pace which he could and should have used to vanish several seconds in the lead, despite him crashing out trying that strategy in 2014 and 2016, to say nothing of 5 earlier races in 2015, and the fact that he has only won at PI in the premier class by taking a race winning lead late in a race.

MdubSTYLIE said:

I remember the incident in Jersey. I believe they were in town for their sisters wedding that day. Truely heartbreaking.

I was able to find two other incidents where motogp riders had committed DUI's. Both were in the lower classes not gp, and both were fired from their teams for it. So what I learned is if you are good and fighting for the championship the same morals don't apply to you that they do for others. A public figure such as a racer should do some kind of community service for these actions. Its important for them to come and camera and admit their mistakes. A lot of kids look up to them and I find so sad that this behavior was swept under the rug.

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This is true in just about every sport ever. Nothing new unfortunately. People who are making the money don't want the gravy train to end.

Agree with the community service element.

MdubSTYLIE said:

I am ok with that. I totally understand your opinion and decision to let it go. Had that press conference not happened. My jaw was on the floor when they attacked a member of the press over asking a question. I knew then that he was not taking responsibility for what happened and that it could have been so much worse.

In case you missed it

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It was a fair question, however I think judging from the deleted post @Sennas_Caress is probably right that it was a Dorna/Ducati decision and they don't want anyone talking about it.

MdubSTYLIE said:

I am ok with that. I totally understand your opinion and decision to let it go. Had that press conference not happened. My jaw was on the floor when they attacked a member of the press over asking a question. I knew then that he was not taking responsibility for what happened and that it could have been so much worse.

In case you missed it

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Article by Patterson

JPSLotus said:

Which frankly is disgusting to think about.

But I suspect a deal is precisely what happened.

It's just sad the lower classes are held to different standards than the GP guys are. What does it teach any young rider or even young person about responsibility if they watch guys in the top class get away with this stuff?

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To behave yourself unless you are the best/almost the best/too good to suspend etc. As I said above, it is as old as time.
Far worse crimes have been swept under the rub because the perp was a star.

Yes - and the Rolling Stones should cut Keith from the band because he was an unapologetic heroin user
And the Beatles should have shunned George and John because they were both addicts.
The Who should have given Keith a time out for his bad example to the youth of the world.
Led Zepplin should have cut Bonzo and Pagey from the band so it could be more wholesome.
The Eagles should have taken away Joe Walsh's boy scout badge.
The S*x Pistols music should be banned from the airwaves forever
Richard Pryor should have been banned from all the comedy clubs.
Babe Ruth's image should be removed from the history of baseball and his trading cards burned.
Tom Waits should be locked away in a basement for setting a bad example
Charles Bukowski's books should be collected and incinerated in a huge bonfire along with the books by Truman Capote, Edgar Allan Poe, Tennessee Williams, F Scott Fitzgerald, Ernest Hemingway, Hunter Thompson, John Cheever, O. Henry, Dylan Thomas, William Faulkner, James Joyce and Jack Kerouac.
And all the po*n stars should be burned at the stake because they influence others to make the po*n that every guy (except probably Michael) on this forum watches.
That these deviates should get away with this behavior makes me so mad, that I'm in danger of falling out of my ivory tower.

I strongly believe adults are entitled to go to hell in a handbasket in whatever manner they might choose, as long as no harm is done to others, and bow to few as a fan of both Keith Richard(s) and the Rolling Stones in general, but would not approve of him driving under the influence of heroin and would expect him to lose his driving licence if he did. I believe he was required to do community service perhaps in Canada for a drug offence anyway. It was for being in possession of a trafficable quantity of heroin as I recall, not that Keith would have ever needed to sell heroin, given that Prince Rupert was on board with the Stones he was never short of money. He is probably still extant today because he only used high quality stuff and has very strong protoplasm, rivalled only by Iggy Pop in that regard believe, although luck was doubtless also Involved to a significant degree.

michaelm said:

I strongly believe adults are entitled to go to hell in a handbasket in whatever manner they might choose, as long as no harm is done to others, and bow to few as a fan of both Keith Richard(s) and the Rolling Stones in general, but would not approve of him driving under the influence of heroin and would expect him to lose his driving licence if he did. I believe he was required to do community service perhaps in Canada for a drug offence anyway. It was for being in possession of a trafficable quantity of heroin as I recall, not that Keith would have ever needed to sell heroin, given that Prince Rupert was on board with the Stones he was never short of money. He is probably still extant today because he only used high quality stuff and has very strong protoplasm, rivalled only by Iggy Pop in that regard believe, although luck was doubtless also Involved to a significant degree.

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Sorry, can't delete it now.

Keshav said:

Yes - and the Rolling Stones should cut Keith from the band because he was an unapologetic heroin user
And the Beatles should have shunned George and John because they were both addicts.
The Who should have given Keith a time out for his bad example to the youth of the world.
Led Zepplin should have cut Bonzo and Pagey from the band so it could be more wholesome.
The Eagles should have taken away Joe Walsh's boy scout badge.
The S*x Pistols music should be banned from the airwaves forever
Richard Pryor should have been banned from all the comedy clubs.
Babe Ruth's image should be removed from the history of baseball and his trading cards burned.
Tom Waits should be locked away in a basement for setting a bad example
Charles Bukowski's books should be collected and incinerated in a huge bonfire along with the books by Truman Capote, Edgar Allan Poe, Tennessee Williams, F Scott Fitzgerald, Ernest Hemingway, Hunter Thompson, John Cheever, O. Henry, Dylan Thomas, William Faulkner, James Joyce and Jack Kerouac.
And all the po*n stars should be burned at the stake because they influence others to make the po*n that every guy (except probably Michael) on this forum watches.
That these deviates should get away with this behavior makes me so mad, that I'm in danger of falling out of my ivory tower.

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This coming from the same dipshit that condemned a former member for his so called alcohol and drug use. You are such a ....... hypocrite. Please shut the .... up.

To add even more hypocrisy to it, you asked me for a certain forum members address in a pm. As much as I was willing to let by gones be by gones there wasn't a chance in hell I was going to do that. Because I knew you would show those spots you are so proud of. People can change but people who are proud of even the wrongs they commit are bound to repeat their history of being a prick. You are a truly evil person Keshav.

Keshav said:

Yes - and the Rolling Stones should cut Keith from the band because he was an unapologetic heroin user
And the Beatles should have shunned George and John because they were both addicts.
The Who should have given Keith a time out for his bad example to the youth of the world.
Led Zepplin should have cut Bonzo and Pagey from the band so it could be more wholesome.
The Eagles should have taken away Joe Walsh's boy scout badge.
The S*x Pistols music should be banned from the airwaves forever
Richard Pryor should have been banned from all the comedy clubs.
Babe Ruth's image should be removed from the history of baseball and his trading cards burned.
Tom Waits should be locked away in a basement for setting a bad example
Charles Bukowski's books should be collected and incinerated in a huge bonfire along with the books by Truman Capote, Edgar Allan Poe, Tennessee Williams, F Scott Fitzgerald, Ernest Hemingway, Hunter Thompson, John Cheever, O. Henry, Dylan Thomas, William Faulkner, James Joyce and Jack Kerouac.
And all the po*n stars should be burned at the stake because they influence others to make the po*n that every guy (except probably Michael) on this forum watches.
That these deviates should get away with this behavior makes me so mad, that I'm in danger of falling out of my ivory tower.

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This is just my opinion Kesh, but in a just world, the answer to all those is YES.

The reason they don't get punished, is because they make a lot of people a lot of money. I get drug tested for my job (partly because I'm working on Gov't contracts), you bet your arse I'd be fired if I tested +ve for heroin. So why should Keith Richards be any different?

It's a sad world when people think 'celebrities' should be excused for their actions. Remember when Phillip Seymour Hoffman died and everyone was pining on what a sad loss it was? I didn't. He was a ....... junkie, plain and simple. A junkie who had access to far more facilities and support networks than most poor people who are dismissed as worthless.

I'm far from perfect, but I'm morally a good person. Which makes me better than 90% of Musicians/Celebrities/Sports stars.