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Did you miss when he blamed everything but himself for anything that went wrong? Or others for his own stupid mistakes?
Are you by chance skipping those parts of his answers?

In the end of the season show in Barcelona, when he was alone on stage, and once again quizzed about how he could lose the title after winning more than ten races, he just said that you can't have eight DNFs.

He blamed no-one else.

When he is annoyed, he says things, that he later either takes back or changes. Who doesn't say things they regret in the heat of the moment?

You're absolutely free to dislike him for any reason though.
 
If this drawn out shaming of Pecco (who I’ve never liked) hadn’t dragged a dead horse through multiple threads, I wouldn’t mention it, but several of the members of this thread who continually harp about this, were, and continue to be, long time avid supporters of a certain member of this forum (no longer here but much recounted) who - as of the last time I met with him, was a rabid and unapologetic heavy user of booze and coke. Can’t say that that member ever drove the family car while inebriated, but I wouldn’t bet the house against it. Not wishing to start a flame war here, but in the big picture, a one-time incident of driving while inebriated - by a very young guy, who never hurt anyone, is just absurd. My guess is that same former member, who bragged endlessly about his insane consumption of 101 proof Rum and absinthe, would agree with me. Enough already. People need to stop clutching their pearls over this .....

Is there anyone here who’s never done something stupid or morally repugnant when in their youthful 20’s? Are there any stone-throwers who can seriously argue that someone that young, should be defined for the rest of his life by one dumb incident that hurt no-one? He’s a guy who goes fast on a motorcycle, not the Pope or the Dali Lama. He has enough pressure just doing what he’s paid to do. I doubt very much there’s anything in his contract that specifies he should be a moral beacon for the youth of the world. He’s a racer, not a Sunday school teacher.

It should be pointed out that there were a lot of members here back in 2006 who had their torches and pitchforks out and were circling Pedrosa’s castle for years calling out for his blood over his collision Nicky, and years later, when the smoke cleared, give him the respect he deserves.
You on the other hand still don’t seem to understand what pissed off those you mention about you.

Never any excuse for drink driving, but particularly not as a motorsport competitor who should have some concern for the safety of other road or track users and could afford a new Lamborghini for a chauffer to drive as well as paying the chauffeur.

I wouldn’t go as far as MDub in ascribing a whole pattern of behaviour to him, and regarded him as having been about as gracious as anyone could be in the circumstances after JM won the title. I have about the same attitude to him as I did to Rossi before 2015, viz he is really good but doesn’t engage me emotionally as a fan. I didn’t really have anything apart from the drunk driving against him prior to early this season when Rossi seemingly recruited him to the cause of his 9 year war against MM, and still think there was a touch of that involved in his reaction to the crash with the other Marquez who has apparently been designated as part of the enemy.

If he is his own man going forward as seems likely I will have no problem, and he again demonstrated how good he is when fully focussed in the late season races, something he should perhaps have tried to be a little earlier in the season.


I don’t think Dani would ever have been forgiven if Nicky hadn’t won the title, which he still did in the end, and people also (correctly imo) placed some blame for the incident on Alberto Puig, Dani eventually parting ways with Puig was part of his rehabilitation imo.
 
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You on the other hand still don’t seem to understand what pissed off those you mention about you.

Never any excuse for drink driving, but particularly not as a motorsport competitor who should have some concern for the safety of other road or track users and could afford a new Lamborghini for a chauffer to drive as well as paying the chauffeur.

I wouldn’t go as far as MDub in ascribing a whole pattern of behaviour to him, and regarded him as having been about as gracious as anyone could be in the circumstances after JM won the title. I have about the same attitude to him as I did to Rossi before 2015, viz he is really good but doesn’t engage me emotionally as a fan. I didn’t really have anything apart from the drunk driving against him prior to early this season when Rossi seemingly recruited him to the cause of his 9 year war against MM, and still think there was a touch of that involved in his reaction to the crash with the other Marquez who has apparently been designated as part of the enemy.

Re: What anyone was pissed off about regarding myself . . . I "understand" - but I attribute zero validity to those rationales. All that absurd tribal argy-bargy back then was based on a collective delusional perception of a very charismatic forum member by a small minority of members, who had never actually met in the flesh, someone I had in fact spent time with in the real world. He wasn't a demon, but sure as hell, he was no boyscout. Why on earth you would dredge that up after all these years is beyond me. I could speculate, but that would just lead to more dragging out a conversation that died years ago. If you have some burning need to re-open old wounds, do the forum a courtesy, and address that need in the form of a PM.

To be clear, I'm not attacking any member of this forum who is presently contributing. I'm only saying that it is wrong to condemn a young person forever for a single act of thoughtlessness, especially one that had zero consequences to anyone else than himself. Realistically - nobody on this forum can say that they've never done something wreckless in their youth. Nobody. There are no Boy Scouts here. All this Calvinist puritanical fire and brimstone judgment of a young guy is IMHO is a symptom of the unrealistic black and white moral posturing that dies in sunlight but thrives on the internet where everybody can pretend to be saints.

People were rightly outraged back when Marquez crashed into Wilirot and in the intervening years he's not repeated that behavior - and people moved on. And that was a much more egregious offense. In a world where people are needlessly dying in insane wars and from starvation, where facism is creeping in and taking over countries around the world, a young guy in his 20s having too much to drink and crashing his car - is ....... small potatoes.

Fact is, Pecco is just not likeable, but that's no reason why he should be endlessly targeted with spite and bile. I get it. Some people just need to have a villain to dump on. Rossi was a piece of .... and fit that role to a tee, but I don't see how Pecco deserves to inherit that mantle.
 
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Re: What anyone was pissed off about regarding myself . . . I "understand" - but I attribute zero validity to those rationales. All that absurd tribal argy-bargy back then was based on a collective delusional perception of a very charismatic forum member by a small minority of members, who had never actually met in the flesh, someone I had in fact spent time with in the real world. He wasn't a demon, but sure as hell, he was no boyscout. Why on earth you would dredge that up after all these years is beyond me. I could speculate, but that would just lead to more dragging out a conversation that died years ago. If you have some burning need to re-open old wounds, do the forum a courtesy, and address that need in the form of a PM.

To be clear, I'm not attacking any member of this forum who is presently contributing. I'm only saying that it is wrong to condemn a young person forever for a single act of thoughtlessness, especially one that had zero consequences to anyone else than himself. Realistically - nobody on this forum can say that they've never done something wreckless in their youth. Nobody. There are no Boy Scouts here. All this Calvinist puritanical fire and brimstone judgment of a young guy is IMHO is a symptom of the unrealistic black and white moral posturing that dies in sunlight but thrives on the internet where everybody can pretend to be saints.

People were rightly outraged back when Marquez crashed into Wilirot and in the intervening years he's not repeated that behavior - and people moved on. And that was a much more egregious offense. In a world where people are needlessly dying in insane wars and from starvation, where facism is creeping in and taking over countries around the world, a young guy in his 20s having too much to drink and crashing his car - is ....... small potatoes.

Fact is, Pecco is just not likeable, but that's no reason why he should be endlessly targeted with spite and bile. I get it. Some people just need to have a villain to dump on. Rossi was a piece of .... and fit that role to a tee, but I don't see how Pecco deserves to inherit that mantle.
Again you don't see the problem. I didn't dredge it up, having offered no word of criticism of you for many years, you did.
 
You on the other hand still don’t seem to understand what pissed off those you mention about you.

FFS Michael - you wrote this. Not me. The intent could not be clearer. How that does't qualify as criticism I don't know. As I said, if you really need to re-open this chapter, do it as a PM. This stuff is history and nobody else wants to re-live it.
 
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If this drawn out shaming of Pecco (who I’ve never liked) hadn’t dragged a dead horse through multiple threads, I wouldn’t mention it, but several of the members of this thread who continually harp about this, were, and continue to be, long time avid supporters of a certain member of this forum (no longer here but much recounted) who - as of the last time I met with him, was a rabid and unapologetic heavy user of booze and coke. Can’t say that that member ever drove the family car while inebriated, but I wouldn’t bet the house against it. Not wishing to start a flame war here, but in the big picture, a one-time incident of driving while inebriated - by a very young guy, who never hurt anyone, is just absurd. My guess is that same former member, who bragged endlessly about his insane consumption of 101 proof Rum and absinthe, would agree with me. Enough already. People need to stop clutching their pearls over this .....

Is there anyone here who’s never done something stupid or morally repugnant when in their youthful 20’s? Are there any stone-throwers who can seriously argue that someone that young, should be defined for the rest of his life by one dumb incident that hurt no-one? He’s a guy who goes fast on a motorcycle, not the Pope or the Dali Lama. He has enough pressure just doing what he’s paid to do. I doubt very much there’s anything in his contract that specifies he should be a moral beacon for the youth of the world. He’s a racer, not a Sunday school teacher.

It should be pointed out that there were a lot of members here back in 2006 who had their torches and pitchforks out and were circling Pedrosa’s castle for years calling out for his blood over his collision Nicky, and years later, when the smoke cleared, give him the respect he deserves.

This post is absolutely a low blow to someone not here to defend himself. I refuse to be brought back into this but thank you for reminding me who you are. A leopard can't change his spots can he? Thanks Michael for being the guy you are and defending former members.

Please don't ....... pm Keshav, don't ....... reply. Please just let sleeping dogs lie.
 
It's probably too long ago for anyone of you to remember that so I'm gonna call out myself. After COTA I predicted Mav would have a career year and challenge for the title.
As it turned out, after perhaps his best weekend ever it was back to the usual qualifying between 4th and 8th and running between 14th and 18th after lap one.
He never got close to another podium.
I think I contested this with you at the time and I take no pride in turning out to be right.

People were rightly outraged back when Marquez crashed into Wilirot and in the intervening years he's not repeated that behavior - and people moved on. And that was a much more egregious offense.
Clearly you have not visited the Motorsport.com comments section. Marc Marquez could cure cancer and some people would still bring up that incident and 2015 :D
 
You on the other hand still don’t seem to understand what pissed off those you mention about you.

Never any excuse for drink driving, but particularly not as a motorsport competitor who should have some concern for the safety of other road or track users and could afford a new Lamborghini for a chauffer to drive as well as paying the chauffeur.

I wouldn’t go as far as MDub in ascribing a whole pattern of behaviour to him, and regarded him as having been about as gracious as anyone could be in the circumstances after JM won the title. I have about the same attitude to him as I did to Rossi before 2015, viz he is really good but doesn’t engage me emotionally as a fan. I didn’t really have anything apart from the drunk driving against him prior to early this season when Rossi seemingly recruited him to the cause of his 9 year war against MM, and still think there was a touch of that involved in his reaction to the crash with the other Marquez who has apparently been designated as part of the enemy.

If he is his own man going forward as seems likely I will have no problem, and he again demonstrated how good he is when fully focussed in the late season races, something he should perhaps have tried to be a little earlier in the season.


I don’t think Dani would ever have been forgiven if Nicky hadn’t won the title, which he still did in the end, and people also (correctly imo) placed some blame for the incident on Alberto Puig, Dani eventually parting ways with Puig was part of his rehabilitation imo.

As I have stated before. My reason for continuously bringing this up is not because of the behavior itself. Its due to the total lack of responsibility for said action. Its for Jack defending his action and dorna allowing them to attack a member of the media for asking a justified question about his DUI. I will never let him forget his actions as much as he wants to. Because he has zero remorse for it and taken zero accountability for it. As long as he is motogp and I am here expect to see little reminders of something he wants to forget. Because making mistakes in life isn't about forgetting them and moving on. Its about remembering them and learning from them. Thats how you stop history from repeating itself.
 
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Are you by chance skipping those parts of his answers?

In the end of the season show in Barcelona, when he was alone on stage, and once again quizzed about how he could lose the title after winning more than ten races, he just said that you can't have eight DNFs.

He blamed no-one else.

When he is annoyed, he says things, that he later either takes back or changes. Who doesn't say things they regret in the heat of the moment?

You're absolutely free to dislike him for any reason though.

I remember him blaming a lot of things including the Michelin tires.

Remember when he threw Alex Marquez under the bus after his own mistake at Aragon? Sure he walked it back, but as Alex said, the damage was done to his reputation because of Pecco.

He takes back things when he gets called on his own ........ or senses the winds shifting.

You're absolutely free to defend it.

Doesn't matter to me.

I've already said numerous times he's a great rider. Everything else about him is entirely unlikeable. He also has a spatial awareness problem.
 
As I have stated before. My reason for continuously bringing this up is not because of the behavior itself. Its due to the total lack of responsibility for said action. Its for Jack defending his action and dorna allowing them to attack a member of the media for asking a justified question about his DUI. I will never let him forget his actions as much as he wants to. Because he has zero remorse for it and taken zero accountability for it. As long as he is motogp and I am here expect to see little reminders of something he wants to forget. Because making mistakes in life isn't about forgetting them and moving on. Its about remembering them and learning from them. Thats how you stop history from repeating itself.
I obviously agree with you having seen the consequences from my own life experience, and I imagine your deeply held view while correct in itself probably also reflects life experience. The guy also wasn't marginally over the legal limit, he crashed a car into a ditch despite also obviously having highly elite motor abilities/reflexes when sober. He could probably also have afforded to buy the road itself and the land around it between the place he left and the place he was going, and cleared other traffic from the thoroughfare, in which case he could have done whatever he liked as far as I am concerned as long as he had no passengers. You are also correct that associates like Jack Miller have expressed annoyance with the issue being mentioned and I am not aware of him offering anything in the way of regret or admission of error.

I have considered that I might have been over the top for attaching blame to him because of the sins of Valentino as I perceive them, and he does seem to have become his own man in that regard.
 
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As I have stated before. My reason for continuously bringing this up is not because of the behavior itself. Its due to the total lack of responsibility for said action. Its for Jack defending his action and dorna allowing them to attack a member of the media for asking a justified question about his DUI. I will never let him forget his actions as much as he wants to. Because he has zero remorse for it and taken zero accountability for it. As long as he is motogp and I am here expect to see little reminders of something he wants to forget. Because making mistakes in life isn't about forgetting them and moving on. Its about remembering them and learning from them. Thats how you stop history from repeating itself.

IIRC, Pecco posted an apology on Instagram that he deleted.

Ducati did nothing.

Dorna did nothing.

Everyone just swept it under the rug and pretended like it never happened or it was no big deal.

I don't know if anyone here watches hockey, but not too long ago, Johnny Gaudreau who was a pretty well known NHL player and his brother were biking on the side of the road in South New Jersey and got plowed over by drunken driver. Both were pronounced dead at the scene. Bad things can happen really quickly when you are over the limit even if its slightly. What happens if Pecco plowed over some tourists in Ibiza? Would some of you be so defensive of the nicknames for him?
 
IIRC, Pecco posted an apology on Instagram that he deleted.

Ducati did nothing.

Dorna did nothing.

Everyone just swept it under the rug and pretended like it never happened or it was no big deal.

I don't know if anyone here watches hockey, but not too long ago, Johnny Gaudreau who was a pretty well known NHL player and his brother were biking on the side of the road in South New Jersey and got plowed over by drunken driver. Both were pronounced dead at the scene. Bad things can happen really quickly when you are over the limit even if its slightly. What happens if Pecco plowed over some tourists in Ibiza? Would some of you be so defensive of the nicknames for him?

I remember the incident in Jersey. I believe they were in town for their sisters wedding that day. Truely heartbreaking.

I was able to find two other incidents where motogp riders had committed DUI's. Both were in the lower classes not gp, and both were fired from their teams for it. So what I learned is if you are good and fighting for the championship the same morals don't apply to you that they do for others. A public figure such as a racer should do some kind of community service for these actions. Its important for them to come and camera and admit their mistakes. A lot of kids look up to them and I find so sad that this behavior was swept under the rug.
 
He made a mistake. He fked up. He is still young and has many pressures being such a high profile elite sportsperson.
Nobody was hurt luckily and I am pretty damn sure he has learnt from that mistake.
I am here to watch him ride a motorcycle and talk about it. He is pretty bloody good at it.
Don't care that he doesn't have an outgoing personality. Neither do I.
As others have said he has complained about other riders. Not many haven't. There would have been huge pressure on him to get results. More than many others.
He hasn't followed the mantra of being anti MM like some of the other VR proteges. As Michael says, he has become his own man there.
Don't mind watching him ride a bike anyway.
I would still like Marc to get up next year but I expect Pecco will make that a very challenging task.
Looking forward to it.
 
What I will say over this, is I usually set expectations for people as if I were the potential victim of their decisions. What if Pecco had run over a child? Ask that question to Jack Miller now he is a father and see if he is so quick to brush it under the rug.

I remember in my childhood that the UK ran persistent campaigns and advertising, especially around Christmas time, against drink driving to the point that is is now socially taboo in most circles, which is great.
 
He made a mistake. He fked up. He is still young and has many pressures being such a high profile elite sportsperson.
Nobody was hurt luckily and I am pretty damn sure he has learnt from that mistake.
I am here to watch him ride a motorcycle and talk about it. He is pretty bloody good at it.
Don't care that he doesn't have an outgoing personality. Neither do I.
As others have said he has complained about other riders. Not many haven't. There would have been huge pressure on him to get results. More than many others.
He hasn't followed the mantra of being anti MM like some of the other VR proteges. As Michael says, he has become his own man there.
Don't mind watching him ride a bike anyway.
I would still like Marc to get up next year but I expect Pecco will make that a very challenging task.
Looking forward to it.

I am ok with that. I totally understand your opinion and decision to let it go. Had that press conference not happened. My jaw was on the floor when they attacked a member of the press over asking a question. I knew then that he was not taking responsibility for what happened and that it could have been so much worse.

In case you missed it

 
IIRC, Pecco posted an apology on Instagram that he deleted.

Ducati did nothing.

Dorna did nothing.

Everyone just swept it under the rug and pretended like it never happened or it was no big deal.

I don't know if anyone here watches hockey, but not too long ago, Johnny Gaudreau who was a pretty well known NHL player and his brother were biking on the side of the road in South New Jersey and got plowed over by drunken driver. Both were pronounced dead at the scene. Bad things can happen really quickly when you are over the limit even if its slightly. What happens if Pecco plowed over some tourists in Ibiza? Would some of you be so defensive of the nicknames for him?
Gaz would know but I think he would have lost his racing super licence in Australia.
 
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