Read your original post again. You invited the response you got. Now stop crying.
Read your original post again. You invited the response you got. Now stop crying.
Joined Oct 2006
445 Posts | 43+
Adelaide, Australia
I know exactly when Kato passed away; you just quoted me saying it. I have no doubt that HRC (and all the teams) keep a close eye on all young riders. Perhaps Yamaha thought Manuel Poggiali would be part a dream team with Shinya Nakano? Saying that HRC, at the beginning of 2003, thought Pedrosa, a 3 time winner in 125cc, would be part of any Honda factory dream team is utterly ridiculous. About as ridiculous as saying Pedrosa was wholly responsible for the 800cc formula; which--I can't tell now--have you backed away from that one or not?
Was Pedrosa one to watch? Of course. A rider for the future? More than likely. The second most desirable rider (for HRC) in the paddock after Kato at the _start_ of 2003? ...
So yeah - no chance.
Don't sigh at me; you're the one who brought up the EVO bike here!
Ok, in the interests of moving on, I'll concede Spalding's contention that the EVO bike was supposed to be the weapon to beat Rossi/Yamaha. It was just a test bed from start to finish, which Hayden was apparently contractually obliged to test away on. I had a look back at Hayden's results for the first 5 races: he camped out on the podium, basically, with just a 5th at Le Mans. So this progress you speak of must have been made in the pre-season.
The bike was working well, and responding so well. In the other thread about Pedrosa I summed up the EVO bike (quoting from Hayden himself, speaking on the eve of Laguna) in the first half of the season: 'about the same at some tracks, maybe a little worse, but good for us at others.' You completely disagreed with that...
Actually, I thought it was at Brno that all of the problems began. It was painful to watch him go backwards through the field at a rapid rate of knots.
Why at Laguna? Do you mean prior to Laguna? The closest Pedrosa ever got to Hayden in points in the first half of the season (apart from Jerez, the first race) was after Le Mans. And as for HRC's expectations for Pedrosa i agree now they were high, and, to be honest, probably rightly so.
His outrage in the gravel trap at Estoril showed just how much the championship meant, how much he wanted it, and how gutted he was that all hope seemed lost. That doesn't mesh with a meek, contracually-obligated tester. Sure, Hayden never has been the type of guy to air his dirty laundry in public; while noble, and to be applauded in some respects, it's not the way the game is played in the GP circus, and I think it hurt his career at Honda. But even beyond that, Spencer's experimental wheel cracks at Kyalami never to be seen again; at Eastern Creek, Doohan retires with (electrical/water?) problems and says that stuff won't be on my bikes again. Sheene took to a badly-designed frame with a hacksaw (ok, bit of a different era, that one). You can no doubt think of a lot more examples. After the disasters of Brno and Philip Island (the flag-to-flag saved him there, I think he was last but one after the first lap) you would have expected any other rider to draw a line in the sand. I guess this isn't something that needs to be argued out, but it just seems so incongruous to me.
Joined Apr 2008
7K Posts | 3K+
Out of Nowhere
Joined Oct 2006
445 Posts | 43+
Adelaide, Australia
See now I know you've got nothing!
I write about Rossi's underpants, and Uccio, and how Pedrosa's really tiny, and Stoner's always angry, and Lorenzo keeps a mirror in his back pocket, and have much fun at Edward's expense.
But you... you write poems about your favourite Powerslide poster and make lists of mean things about poor Max and little Dani. And it really is disturbing how much you know about Biaggi.
Joined Apr 2008
7K Posts | 3K+
Out of Nowhere
See now I know you've got nothing!
I write about Rossi's underpants, and Uccio, and how Pedrosa's really tiny, and Stoner's always angry, and Lorenzo keeps a mirror in his back pocket, and have much fun at Edward's expense.
But you... you write poems about your favourite Powerslide poster and make lists of mean things about poor Max and little Dani. And it really is disturbing how much you know about Biaggi.
In truth, the only thing that's superior about my lists is that they tend to be top fifteens or twenties. They are however equally as irreverent as yours and are similarly not designed to be taken seriously - particularly in attributing the advent of 800cc solely to HRC & Dani Pedrosa..................................the reality is of course, it was all Dani's doing.
If I had the time tonight and the will I could dissect your very thorough prior post because there are several points over which I would contest the accuracy of your assertions...most inconsequentially the Manuel Poggiali analogy was nonetheless ludicrous - perhaps intentionally so. Dani was being nurtured by Honda - there was unquestionably a long term vision. Poggiali was simply being groomed as a pizza delivery rider as a recent copy of his CV would attest.
How much I know about Biaggi is second only to the list of disturbing facts I can compile again about SS56
You must not know how the MSMA used to control the rules of motogp, Please provide some kind of proof for the part in bold.
That is directly from the mouth of Ezpeleta
http://www.cycleworld.com/2012/02/09/the-new-motogp-racing/
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In Nicky's defense........wait for it Jums........I will cite that 2006 was in fact the first season where Nicky was considered the lead rider at HRC-even if some there believed Dani was going to make it happen, as before 2006 the big 'H' had Gidders, Biaggi, Rossi etc always heading up the charge. No doubt after so many years of 'getting what was given' it would have been a little difficult to take the reins on this and question Honda's development strategy, especially going into 2007- No matter your personality, Rossi himself cited 'dealing with Honda's attitude' as the reason for leaving 3 years prior. I believe Nicky's reaction to the Pedrosa incident in Estoril was simply a build up pressure from what was an extraordinary season....the likes of which we so desperately desire nowadays.....a reaction that was probably never considered for the top Brass at HRC behind closed doors, as it would have been in vein anyway.
I also believe you could bring Michelin's construction issues with their SNS's in 2006 into the equation for Nicky, as I do also recall a lot of his issues that year were, as previously mentioned in this thread, stability on braking/corner entry. Yamaha had chatter, and reverted back to the 2005 chassis, they also destroyed tyres in China and somewhere else I think?
Joined Oct 2006
3K Posts | 197+
Living the dream in Scotland
Has anyone called stoner a greetin faced wee ....... who is gonna retire beaten by Jorge Lorenzo, just like the last time Jorge was fit for a whole season?
Mystery illness by August, an he will be retired, thank ....
Then the ..... Spencer comebacks begin
Yawnnnn!
Mystery illness by August, an he will be retired, thank ....
Then the ..... Spencer comebacks begin
Yawnnnn!
Joined Jan 2011
3K Posts | 152+
The North!
Say it how you see it mate
The one thing our Pete has in common with Casey Stoner
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
Haha.
Zoot, i await ur reply to Hawk.
Pete, fishing with dynamite is effective, but a bit messy.
Joined Oct 2006
445 Posts | 43+
Adelaide, Australia
Heh. Maybe frosty58 (what's happened to all the mods, anyway) should pin a thread entitled "Poetry and Diatribes by Arrabbiata1, Esq." Although you did post a rather vigorous defence for something that wasn't meant to be taken seriously.
It's all good. Of course Poggiali/Nakano was intentionally ludicrous--it was meant to highlight the idea of a pre-championship winning Pedrosa being in anyone's dream team as equally so. Maybe we're just arguing over semantics (which seem to be at the heart of a lot of internet 'discussions'); 'dream team' reminds me, perhaps unsurprisingly, of the 1992 Olympic US men's basketball team. Hence HRC's current dream team might be Stoner/Lorenzo, or, if you wanted an eye on the future, Stoner/Marquez. Stoner/Fenati or even Stoner/Vinales doesn't have the same ring to it.
Shudder.
I think we're all waiting for a reply on that one...
Joined Oct 2007
4K Posts | 744+
Tuscany, Italy
It gets repeated for a reason... But if we want to indulge alternate views, also keeping in mind points raised by Arrabbiata1 and Rising Sun, then in a way we could say it's been Rossi's fault -- had he stayed at Honda and won an even more impressive string of titles with the RC211, probably any idea of changing the formula would have been vetoed by Honda themselves. But since he left claiming he was the reason they were winning, Honda wanted to beat him real bad; it became something personal. So the idea of reducing capacity for "safety reasons" (an idea that first came up after Kato's death, but would have probably been forgotten) was revived, as a means to exploit the competitive advantage of their superior technology, After 2004 and 2005 they were really pissed. The strategy of putting little, multiple 250 champ Pedrosa on a smaller, more 250-like MotoGP bike seemed the right one. We know the rest.
Joined Aug 2007
11K Posts | 3K+
Pomona NY
Joined Feb 2009
3K Posts | 2+
siebenbürgen süße heimat!
i'm hoping for a close championship battle but reading some of this .... makes me want to see stoner dominate week in,week out.
stoner is a hell of a rider,credit where credit is due
Do you have a link for these meeting minutes (not that I imagine these sorts of things are generally published), or any statements by Honda stating their categorical opposition to 800cc bikes? It's long been accepted that Honda had a big say in the 800cc formula (even if the reasons are debatable).
Yep, the FIM has everything published - just knock yourself up an account and look for the working party minutes.
And 'long been accepted' isn't the same as 'fact' - HRC management as recently as this year have been decrying the change to 800s and the additional costs it imposed.
The FIM controlled the rules. Specifically, the FIM wanted the change on 'safety' grounds.
What manufacturer in their right mind would want to make a wholesale change that would result in millions of dollars in costs, particularly when they were on the top of the heap?
Ezpeleta says a lot of things that aren't true or logical... he is a PR man, at the end of the day. He says what he thinks will make the most influence.
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
Well there you have it folks, Ezp is a liar. That's a pretty good come back Zoot, who is gonna argue with that?
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