Catalunya Race: Spoilers

Rising Sun said:

Maybe we're just arguing over semantics (which seem to be at the heart of a lot of internet 'discussions')...

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Maybe...but it doesn't make it any less informative and exquisitely almost euphorically entertaining for a person like me. Thank you gentz for the exchange.

Zootalaws said:

Yep, the FIM has everything published - just knock yourself up an account and look for the working party minutes.

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Are you familiar with the concept of 'burden of proof'? I've been to the FIM site before; it's not the most user friendly.

Zootalaws said:

And 'long been accepted' isn't the same as 'fact' - HRC management as recently as this year have been decrying the change to 800s and the additional costs it imposed.

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Honda being the main architect behind the 800cc formula has been a repeated line in the press for years. As you say, that doesn't make it fact, but you haven't posted any facts yet, either.

Rising Sun said:

Are you familiar with the concept of 'burden of proof'? I've been to the FIM site before; it's not the most user friendly.





Honda being the main architect behind the 800cc formula has been a repeated line in the press for years. As you say, that doesn't make it fact, but you haven't posted any facts yet, either.

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If it's facts you're after 'Sun', I have a veritable plethora to flood the forum in list form - For starters, how about fifty reasons why John Kocinski should have been sectioned? No? The twenty most garish leathers in motorcycle racing? OK - The ten best excuses deployed by Sete Gibernau. You're not impressed - leave it with me...........Giovani Bussei's ten greatest/personal favourite greatest concept albums of the 1970's? Anthony Gobert's top 100 drug of choice? Mick Doohan's guide to the best strip joints in Queensland? Ruben Xaus's top 50 get off's? A list of Phil Reid's most memorable tactless soundbites?



Since I pledged to do it.....and because it's the most demanding....coming up - ten reasons to like Dani Pedrosa.

Zootalaws said:

The FIM controlled the rules. Specifically, the FIM wanted the change on 'safety' grounds.



What manufacturer in their right mind would want to make a wholesale change that would result in millions of dollars in costs, particularly when they were on the top of the heap?



Ezpeleta says a lot of things that aren't true or logical... he is a PR man, at the end of the day. He says what he thinks will make the most influence.

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Wrong again and the FIM did not make the technical rules for GP. The MSMA had a contract with Dorna and under that contract they were allowed to make the technical rules because they were the ones making the bikes. Any rule change in GP was made by vote with the MSMA having the most representatives followed by Dorna and the FIM, Honda led the MSMA because they supplied the most bikes. Part of that contract was for the MSMA to supply the grid with a minimum number of bikes, it was around 19-21, when we had grids of 15 bikes Dorna had enough and now there is no MSMA, instead each factory has an individual contract. The MSMA violated the old contract several times and it's the reason we have CRTs and no more subsidized factory lease bikes. Everyone wants to blame Dorna but it was the MSMA that ...... up GP.

http://www.gizmag.com/go/4120/

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If anything, the rule changes are likely to make it more rather than less difficult for the smaller manufacturers to compete with the engineering prowess and financial power of Honda. Honda promoted the rule change, and had a large say in having it passed, as it provides seven of the 21 bikes on the grid each race.​

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VR, do you think the riders know who made the rules http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/152412/1/rossi_800cc_motogps_biggest_mistake_for_15_years.html

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“For me the manufacturers committed a great error when they changed to 800cc. The 990s were better in every way.”​

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On the rules and the expired MSMA contract http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/racing/motogp-to-return-to-1000cc-formula/

[font=Georgia,]As Ezpeleta explained, the MSMA (Motorcycle Sports Manufacturers Association) has some reprieve from a quick change.[/font]

“Right now, it is not going to be possible to switch in 2011, because the agreement with the manufacturers means that we could only make that change before the end of the 2011 season if there was unanimous agreement among the manufacturers. But we are thinking about a return to a 1000cc capacity from the start of the 2012 season, and we will start discussing it this weekend.”

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FIM meetings huh lmao you are full of .... and making things up

[font=Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif]Meanwhile, the Grand Prix Commission, composed of Messrs. Carmelo Ezpeleta (Dorna, Chairman), Ignacio Verneda (FIM Executive Director, Sport), Hervé Poncharal (IRTA) and Takanao Tsubouchi (MSMA), has the authority to make changes to the Road Racing World Championship Grand Prix Regulations (the rules of MotoGP).[/font]

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Rules and changes to regulations are decided between the four entities, with Dorna casting a tie-breaking vote. In cases of technical modifications, the MSMA can unilaterally enact or veto changes by unanimous vote among its members.[sup][1][/sup] These 4 entities compose the Grand Prix Commission.

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Maybe it's you that needs to go have a look at the FIM site.

I've found some interesting tid bits for the members who believe that the dulled down 990's are no match for todays techno bikes, and that we are seeing the fastest prototypes in the world......



the last time Motogp was at 1-litre displacement was in fact 2006, and the times compared with the weekends race are very interesting.



2006 full race time-24 laps, due to the horrible first corner incident and race re-start



41.31.237



2012 full race time-25 laps



43.07.681



considering Rossi was rather memorably showboating on the last lap in 2006-lighting up the rear tyre and losing a couple of seconds from his previous pace-this comparison is staggering.



Looking at the average lap-times, both races-6 years apart were mostly spent in the 1.43's



Fastest race lap in 2006 was in fact Nicky Hayden 1.43.048



in 2012 it was Jorge 1.42.642-less than 4 tenths........



Rossi's Quali time in 2006 was a 1.41.855 albeit on the old Michelin Quali sponges, still more than 3 tenths quicker than what he could manage on the 2012 Duck........more great progress, Dorna have certainly put the stops on laptimes with all the regs

Zootalaws said:

Ezpeleta says a lot of things that aren't true or logical... he is a PR man, at the end of the day. He says what he thinks will make the most influence.

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You say Ezpeleta, but you mean Rossi... Right?

Arrabbiata1 said:

If it's facts you're after 'Sun', I have a veritable plethora to flood the forum in list form - For starters, how about fifty reasons why John Kocinski should have been sectioned? No? The twenty most garish leathers in motorcycle racing? OK - The ten best excuses deployed by Sete Gibernau. You're not impressed - leave it with me...........Giovani Bussei's ten greatest/personal favourite greatest concept albums of the 1970's? Anthony Gobert's top 100 drug of choice? Mick Doohan's guide to the best strip joints in Queensland? Ruben Xaus's top 50 get off's? A list of Phil Reid's most memorable tactless soundbites?



Since I pledged to do it.....and because it's the most demanding....coming up - ten reasons to like Dani Pedrosa.

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Lord, why have u cursed me with the desire & appreciation; but not the talent!

Arrabbiata1 said:

If it's facts you're after 'Sun', I have a veritable plethora to flood the forum in list form - For starters, how about fifty reasons why John Kocinski should have been sectioned? No? The twenty most garish leathers in motorcycle racing? OK - The ten best excuses deployed by Sete Gibernau. You're not impressed - leave it with me...........Giovani Bussei's ten greatest/personal favourite greatest concept albums of the 1970's? Anthony Gobert's top 100 drug of choice? Mick Doohan's guide to the best strip joints in Queensland? Ruben Xaus's top 50 get off's? A list of Phil Reid's most memorable tactless soundbites?



Since I pledged to do it.....and because it's the most demanding....coming up - ten reasons to like Dani Pedrosa.

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If you get to 5 on the latter I'll applauded you profusely!



don't forget



.......Barry's top ten tips on 'Backing it in'..........

Arrabbiata1 said:

If it's facts you're after 'Sun', I have a veritable plethora to flood the forum in list form - For starters, how about fifty reasons why John Kocinski should have been sectioned? No? The twenty most garish leathers in motorcycle racing? OK - The ten best excuses deployed by Sete Gibernau. You're not impressed - leave it with me...........Giovani Bussei's ten greatest/personal favourite greatest concept albums of the 1970's? Anthony Gobert's top 100 drug of choice? Mick Doohan's guide to the best strip joints in Queensland? Ruben Xaus's top 50 get off's? A list of Phil Reid's most memorable tactless soundbites?



Since I pledged to do it.....and because it's the most demanding....coming up - ten reasons to like Dani Pedrosa.

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Asking for facts on an Internet forum... what was I thinking? The silence is defeaning from Zoot Suit so far, but Hawkdriver's put up a lot of evidence.



As for your suggested lists... I want to read them all, though I expect an honourable mention of Poggiali and Lucchinelli in the piece on Gobert. I remember Phil Read being interviewed on the grid before the start of a Sachsenring GP (in 2007, I think). In what was supposed to be a puff piece, he was asked if he enjoyed being back in the paddock. His reply (paraphrasing from memory): "Put me on one of these bikes (which are ....) and I'd win the race. These riders today are all piss weak." And then he walked off!



It shouldn't be hard to come up with reasons to like the Captain (and Tennille; Puig can be the girl, this time). Here, I'll start you off:



Ten Reasons to like Dani Pedrosa



1. Easy transportation. He counts as carry-on luggage, and fits into any overhead locker.

2. His impressive effort to try and break every bone in his body by the end of his career

(I think it was one of the Spanish posters who put up a link to an article once about the injuries he's sustained that showed a skeleton with a huge number of annotations)

Rising Sun said:

It shouldn't be hard to come up with reasons to like the Captain (and Tennille; Puig can be the girl, this time). Here, I'll start you off:



Ten Reasons to like Dani Pedrosa



1. Easy transportation. He counts as carry-on luggage, and fits into any overhead locker.

2. His impressive effort to try and break every bone in his body by the end of his career

(I think it was one of the Spanish posters who put up a link to an article once about the injuries he's sustained that showed a skeleton with a huge number of annotations)

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Go on!

Rising Sun said:

Ten Reasons to like Dani Pedrosa



1. Easy transportation. He counts as carry-on luggage, and fits into any overhead locker.

2. His impressive effort to try and break every bone in his body by the end of his career

(I think it was one of the Spanish posters who put up a link to an article once about the injuries he's sustained that showed a skeleton with a huge number of annotations)

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3. Well, there's only one of him. (Although MM appears to have originated in the same foul, festering spawning vats.)



4. Erm... Well... He's....







OK, I give up.

5. Because if they ever did a remake of Gilligans island he would be perfect for the role!

Rising Sun said:

Asking for facts on an Internet forum... what was I thinking?

The silence is defeaning from Zoot Suit so far, but Hawkdriver's put up a lot of evidence.



As for your suggested lists... I want to read them all, though I expect an honourable mention of Poggiali and Lucchinelli in the piece on Gobert. I remember Phil Read being interviewed on the grid before the start of a Sachsenring GP (in 2007, I think). In what was supposed to be a puff piece, he was asked if he enjoyed being back in the paddock. His reply (paraphrasing from memory): "Put me on one of these bikes (which are ....) and I'd win the race. These riders today are all piss weak." And then he walked off!



It shouldn't be hard to come up with reasons to like the Captain (and Tennille; Puig can be the girl, this time). Here, I'll start you off:



Ten Reasons to like Dani Pedrosa



1. Easy transportation. He counts as carry-on luggage, and fits into any overhead locker.

2. His impressive effort to try and break every bone in his body by the end of his career

(I think it was one of the Spanish posters who put up a link to an article once about the injuries he's sustained that showed a skeleton with a huge number of annotations)

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3. Following one of his frequent injuries he once had to mount the RCV211v with the aid of a foot stool which he also used to perch on pre race (Sepang I think). Being Dani this was not intended for comic value - but it made me laugh nonetheless. It also allowed Rossi to lampoon him on the rostrum when he brought a chair with him and proceeded to sit Loris Capirossi on his lap whilst drinking a glass of water singing 'G'arcelona'

4/ 'He's from Barcelona' as Fawlty was so fond of saying. Actually, he's not, rather a village called Castellar De Valles about twenty miles away - but it's damn close to the Circuit De Catalunya - which rocks.

5/ His rivalry with Jorge was so bitter that in 2008 the King of Spain Juan Carlos (himself reputedly a biker) by Royal Decree insisted enough was enough and made them reluctantly shake hands on the rostrum.

6/ He raced so closely with Nicky at Sachsenring 2006 that post race, Haydens Repsol leathers were emblazoned with black rubber - admittedly, more a consequence of Nicky repeatedly leaning on his front tyre around Omega.

7/ He likes Sachsenring....after a fierce duel and collision with a wild and errant Lorenzo in 2005 not only finished but won the 250 race with his silencer dangling off...in the process Jorge bit both the dust and the bullet and along with it - a substantial helping of humble pie.

8/ Yvette Amescua

9/ Two years ago at Laguna after Cali Kid blagged us into a Repsol hospitality Q and A session, commenting on how potent he was on the RC211v in '06 - his perma-frosty face melted into a huge warm infectious grin... so I went on to ask him - and I have witnesses to this - which did he prefer to ride 990's or 800cc? He simply said that the 800's were far more precise and required more skill, but were dull - while the 990's were much more fun to ride and he loved the excess power. He also alluded to the fact that the switch to 800cc had been a mistake - which is another reason to like him and admire his magnanimity..........(being of course that he was entirely to blame). I also reminded him of the aforementioned Sachsenring battle with Jorge and he laughed one of his rare laughs again. Next day under heavy pressure from Lorenzo he lost the front at turn 5 and crashed out of the race. Karma can be a c.

10/ He cheated in an exam - far from scrawling a series of dates on the back of his hand or concealed on his sleeve in some inconsequential High School history test like many of us have done - how many of us can claim to have attempted to fiddle a yachtmasters qualification? As documented in previous threads the circumstances of the earpiece involved gave a new meaning to a 'ship to shore' system in Moto GP....fortunately neither Alberto or his pit board operative were responsible for feeding him the data! A contrite Pedrosa later commented in a statement that he had 'taken some bad advice and made a mistake'. Racing career aside, he also ruefully apologised for attempting to fraudulently obtain his yacht master certificate.

Arrabbiata1 said:

8. Yvette Amescua

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Yvette is DQ on account of Uncle Alberto.



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FAIL!

Some great entries there. Between us, we managed to easily find 12 things to like about Dani... imagine how many more we could find if we were actually fans!

Arrabbiata1 said:

7/ He likes Sachsenring....after a fierce duel and collision with a wild and errant Lorenzo in 2005 not only finished but won 250 the race with his silencer dangling off...in the process Jorge bit both the dust and the bullet and along with it - a substantial helping of humble pie.

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I remember this race well; I was reminded of it watching Rossi riding around with a dangling silencer in the last Moto3 race. It should be exhibit A every time some hero (such as after Estoril 2011 and Sachsenring 2011) writes a post that says, "OOOh, Dani finally won a race without getting the holeshot and disappearing into the distance."

Geonerd said:

Yvette is DQ on account of Uncle Alberto.



FAIL!

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I don't know, man... Alby or no Alby he's still done pretty well for himself.

Jesus! Casey anounces his retirement and I go away for 2 weeks and this place has gone to the dogs!!



What a load of trash!



The Toilet door Tennyson ( aka the Backin in Bronte, The Skiddy Socrates ) is even back!!

BarryMachine said:

Jesus! Casey anounces his retirement and I go away for 2 weeks and this place has gone to the dogs!!



What a load of trash!



The Toilet door Tennyson ( aka the Backin in Bronte, The Skiddy Socrates ) is even back!!

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Welcome back crim boy, thought you had topped yourself at the thought of no Casey in Motogp. How was your 2 weeks mourning for the end of Spencer's career?

Trash Pete trash!



Lift your game folks!!

So you are struggling with it Berry, you need to come back to the motherland to see your cousins Pete an Rog. Hey dinnae stress, there will be another fast Aussie in the next few years, he might actually smile, an no be married to his sister!



All the best my custodial colony friend.

Casey is going to a far better place than the concrete jungle of Europe. Luckily I am also "imprisoned" in the same beach flanked, forest coated, sun drenched hell that is not the motherland



Oh and what is a thing called "congestion", for which they tax you guys??