Casey and the Marshalls

Can't blame the marshalls.



If you were a marshall......... would you rather brag to your friends that you've 'touched' Valentino Rossi or Casey Stoner?

Stoner believed very strongly that the bike was good to go. If he'd had a massive high-side, and was limping and disoriented - I could see the marshals overruling him as regards the condition of the bike.



If however they felt it was dangerous to him, them or other riders to allow him to re-enter the track at that particular turn at that particular moment - then that's their call - no doubt.



That any rider should be so narrowly focused on gaining a few points and therefore have a bit of a meltdown is I believe not such a big deal. People act as if the marshals are virgin saints or Knights Templar, beyond reproach is sheer nonsense.



Nice to see yer face around here again Bro.

Keshav said:

People act as if the marshals are virgin saints or Knights Templar, beyond reproach is sheer nonsense.

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Well said.



I've marshaled occasionally, in the long distant past, and I still say well said.



I swear some of you guys treat say going to a race as ..... going to church ....... you just want to worship anything that moves.

Thats what I'm getting from Cali Kid anyway.





No slur on the Marshals or Rider in my books. Its a race ........ everything is frantic .... for all involved ......... except the spectators ...... who are just generally lazy ..... with too much time on their hands



No slur on comments by either side also, as ........ this is what keeps folk analyzing a situation, and hence improving it in the future ( both rider and Marshals).

The California Kid said:

It seems like Casey Stoner has had some issues with the marshalls in his last 2 crashes.



I give him full credit for being unhappy with the Marshalls at Valencia when the whole marshall crew went to help Rossi get back into the race and only one marshall came to his aid, only after seeing the rossi help party was already full. The crash also happend at the begining of the race where if he would have got back in he would have still had a chance to score some points.



Sachsenring was a whole different story, at the speed he crashed I doubt the bike was in good condition to go back out on the track. it could have been leaking something. It was also the last 2 corners of the last lap of the race, if they pushed him out there with the whole back of the grid coming in hot, it could have caused a big hazard for everyone including casey.



To be fair my Verdict is



Valencia Marshalls = ........

Sachsenring Marshalls= Good work

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Jerez...not valencia..but yeh i agree

Fairly understandable that the guy who made an error and took you out being helped by the marshalls whilst you are ignored would be annoying, with their primary function of ensuring safety not appearing to be involved at jerez.



If they didn't think it was safe at sachsenring (btw his complaint does seem to be that they wouldn't allow him to re-start rather than that they wouldn't help him as was widely said) then they didn't think it was safe, and it is the job of marshalls rather than riders to determine this.

Something he does to himself.



Not a fan-boi of either rider, but here's the difference I see.......



Rossi when he ..... up, says he ...... up......as per Indy and the next race with the donkey helmet. In the case of Jerez, when he was asked about it, Rossi said maybe they helped him because his bike was still running, and Stoners wasn't........not that I want to start defending Spanish marshalls.......



Watching "Senna" again on a flight the other day, something he said in regards to Prost struck a chord of similarity in comparison to Stoner (not that Stoner is literaly the same, but ........)



"When it goes wrong for him, it's always someone or something elses fault, the team, the car, the mechanics, other drivers......it's never something he did"



Inevitably he then wonders why he doesn't get the respect he thinks, or feels, he deserves. Closely followed by his fans defending him.



Trouble is, aside from fans, not too many people can be bothered with interpretation of his statements....which then results in the obvious opinions formed.



"Gee, Rossi is a good guy, and Stoner is a whinger."



If he was that worried about points, he should have stopped the chase when he only had two corners to go and taken the safe 20.



To chuck it away in pursuit of a win is acceptable, and happens. To get upset about losing points because marshalls did not assist you to restart from a very dangerous position on the circuit is childish.



It's at the bottom of a steep, fast hill. When you have other people and bike going bonkers in their own battle for positions, who's to say the next bikes aren't going to have something similar occur........especially as it had started to spit rain.





Good call by the marshalls. I don't think they would have acted any differently if it were Bradl going for points/position.



....which cannot be said of the Spanish marshalls this year or last.

Noodles Romanoff said:

Something he does to himself.



Not a fan-boi of either rider, but here's the difference I see.......



Rossi when he ..... up, says he ...... up......as per Indy and the next race with the donkey helmet. In the case of Jerez, when he was asked about it, Rossi said maybe they helped him because his bike was still running, and Stoners wasn't........not that I want to start defending Spanish marshalls.......



Watching "Senna" again on a flight the other day, something he said in regards to Prost struck a chord of similarity in comparison to Stoner (not that Stoner is literaly the same, but ........)



"When it goes wrong for him, it's always someone or something elses fault, the team, the car, the mechanics, other drivers......it's never something he did"



Inevitably he then wonders why he doesn't get the respect he thinks, or feels, he deserves. Closely followed by his fans defending him.



Trouble is, aside from fans, not too many people can be bothered with interpretation of his statements....which then results in the obvious opinions formed.



"Gee, Rossi is a good guy, and Stoner is a whinger."



If he was that worried about points, he should have stopped the chase when he only had two corners to go and taken the safe 20.



To chuck it away in pursuit of a win is acceptable, and happens. To get upset about losing points because marshalls did not assist you to restart from a very dangerous position on the circuit is childish.



It's at the bottom of a steep, fast hill. When you have other people and bike going bonkers in their own battle for positions, who's to say the next bikes aren't going to have something similar occur........especially as it had started to spit rain.





Good call by the marshalls. I don't think they would have acted any differently if it were Bradl going for points/position.



....which cannot be said of the Spanish marshalls this year or last.

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Then again perhaps senna got a free ride because of his flair while not necessarly exceeding proust for talent, imo.



Not entering any discussion about safety and flair in regard to rossi and stoner, both are very safe race riders (safer than senna was as an F1 driver, imo) and both have considerable flair. Rossi certainly has more style and grace than stoner, as senna did in comparison with proust. I don't excuse the time he more or less deliberately took senna out to win the title, but proust was also a great driver, again imo.

michaelm said:

Then again perhaps senna got a free ride because of his flair while not necessarly exceeding proust for talent, imo.

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Now go and watch any Monaco GP from 84 - 93, or indeed any wet race.

michaelm said:

Then again perhaps senna got a free ride because of his flair while not necessarly exceeding proust for talent, imo.

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Ummmm....if you watch the movie, no-one got a free ride, and if one were to start saying something along those lines, then the Prost-Balestre-French connection would tend to incline things in the other direction.



Anyway...........







Stoner makes a rod for his own back.



Amazing rider, not very good at controling his emotions......or thinking before he speaks. He's not payed for either of the latter, so they are somewhat moot to an enthusiast of the sport.



There have been others before him ( Helloooo Mr Koncinski ), and there will be others after him who do the same.



Matter of fact, Lorenzo is about the same.In Lorenzo's favour though is that as much as he flies off the handle (sometimes) inappropriately, he is not averse to looking equaly silly, though showing some humility and strength of character, by retracting his hot headed explosions.



As per Bautista in Assen. Lorenzo was justified in reacting the way he did, though in hindsight saw that it was just a mistake, and his calls for blood may have been a bit over the top and early.

Keshav said:

People act as if the marshals are virgin saints or Knights Templar, beyond reproach is sheer nonsense

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Yeah they just volunteer their free time to picking wankers out of the scenery, what a bunch of utter ......

Goatboy said:

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How much help does he want???



Quite farcical stoners comments on Marshall's for both incidents IMO. Especially in Germany where the bike was what 20-30 meters from the track in gravel? Forget the inherent danger of where it was and what stage of the race it was, there's no way they would have pushed that Honda back to the track, jump started it going back up the slope, avoided all of the on coming racers who would have been on the edge of the track exiting that turn in the 40 seconds it took to have the points scorers all through in front of him anyway, no choice, no other outcome possible-simple.



Stoner has a history of saying very dumb things, for this one he still should apologize.

Noodles Romanoff said:

Ummmm....if you watch the movie, no-one got a free ride, and if one were to start saying something along those lines, then the Prost-Balestre-French connection would tend to incline things in the other direction.



Anyway...........







Stoner makes a rod for his own back.



Amazing rider, not very good at controling his emotions......or thinking before he speaks. He's not payed for either of the latter, so they are somewhat moot to an enthusiast of the sport.



There have been others before him ( Helloooo Mr Koncinski

), and there will be others after him who do the same.



Matter of fact, Lorenzo is about the same.In Lorenzo's favour though is that as much as he flies off the handle (sometimes) inappropriately, he is not averse to looking equaly silly, though showing some humility and strength of character, by retracting his hot headed explosions.



As per Bautista in Assen. Lorenzo was justified in reacting the way he did, though in hindsight saw that it was just a mistake, and his calls for blood may have been a bit over the top and early.

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My point about senna was the proust statement about him, "Ayrton has a problem , he thinks he can't die", not that his final crash, a terrible thing to watch live on TV, was related to any error on his part. One reason he was such a good overtaker other than his obvious supreme speed and talent was that he often gave the overtakee no option; one man's robust decisive pass is sometimes another's unfair pass. If you look at their records and watched them race while senna has all the pole positions proust has more fastest laps.

Noodles, they are all fair point but there is one very glaring isue that seems to be often overlooked (and the recent incident is an excellent example).



The discussion surrounding the comments seems to be all about 'Stoner never blames himself when things go wrong' where in actuality, Stoner wholeheartedly blames himself for the accident (that which went wrong). Whilst yes, many seem to focus on what Stoner says and see it as a 'blame for failure', there are many examples over the last few years (including some of this year) where he has mentioned 'himself' as the problem or primary cause of the perceived failure (certainly there are times when he shares or points blame elsewhere)



What he blames the marshalls for (unfairly IMO) is the inability to restart and perhaps gain a pointscore more valuable than a zero.







As an aside and an interesting point, on another forum this same discussion was occurring and there was mention that Stoner does not differentiate between trackside marshalls and race control in his criticism (and this is where he should differentiate). His larger beef is with Race Control/Direction as it wast hey, who in 2006 stopped him racing in Germany saying he had concussion (and it was suggested led to the 'German Marshall comment as the full statement mentions 2006).



This is no excuse and as I have suggested elsewhere I do feel that a lighter pocket is a fair call on the criticisms as (IMO) the German trackside marshalls did nothing wrong, and everything right on all incidents in which I saw them get involved.







With regards to Rossi and his 'presentation' of failure, you are correct in that he certainly presents his past failures as 'jovial' and will readily 'joke' about them in interviews and by self deprecating humour (the Donkey helmet being a great example). However, I also suspect that his strength in terms of position within the sport at teh time has allowed his jovial approach as we have seen less of the joking Rossi since he commences his (so far) ill fated Ducati tenure.

Talpa said:

How much help does he want???



Quite farcical stoners comments on Marshall's for both incidents IMO. Especially in Germany where the bike was what 20-30 meters from the track in gravel? Forget the inherent danger of where it was and what stage of the race it was, there's no way they would have pushed that Honda back to the track, jump started it going back up the slope, avoided all of the on coming racers who would have been on the edge of the track exiting that turn in the 40 seconds it took to have the points scorers all through in front of him anyway, no choice, no other outcome possible-simple.



Stoner has a history of saying very dumb things, for this one he still should apologize.

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He should apologise for the sachsenring one as everyone has acknowledged.



He should obviously apologise to everyone about the jerez incident, presumably including to valentino for inducing him to make the stupid move by being irritating or whatever, and for managing not to ride over the top of him in the first place.



Even in your selective footage you do realise stoner's bike is on top, which means it was picked up first, and that several more marshalls helped rossi than helped stoner. I recall some of you guys praising valentino for having the sheer genius to keep his bike running , while criticising stoner for not having the presence of mind to do so. Even if this was within stoner's control rather than due to a kill switch, he may for some unknown reason not have wanted to keep his bike running while it was on top of valentino.

I thought the Honda had a cut out to save the engine. I doubt Stoner had Rossi's welfare in mind, or vice-versa.





Good points, thanks Gav.



I see Rossi as being fairly forthright. When it didn't pan-out at Duc as they expected from the get go, he was pretty forthcoming with statements as to how good Stoner was, and how Stoner, Lorenzo and Pedrobot were all fitter, and faster riders than he (probably only meaning at that point in time....but not being Rossi, who knows ?).



As he got more and more frustrated, he's started to let fly a little bit. Fair enough too........ Hayden is doing what Stoner did, and being diplomatic. Fair enough as well (in both cases).......especially as neither has the prescence or favour in the sport that Rossi enjoys.



Both Hayden, and to a lesser degree( by virtue of achievements on the shitbox) Stoner have suffered at the hands of the pile of crap by trying to maintain faith and contracts in being diplomatic in their media appraisals of the ....."machine ?".



If Rossi's position in the sport has one good quality, it is that he can be diplomatic up to a point, and then start to apply pressure where it should be.



He may be on the Duc now, and possibly till retirement.......but he won't be the last.



Hopefully by him , still somewhat diplomatically, telling it like it is the Duc will avoid being in the running to overtake either, or both, Suzuki's and Cagiva's record as perrenial idiots (factories, not teams).





Wow.........that was all waaaaay off topic ! Apologies !





Back to Prost, he may have the fastest laps.



Quote from Lauda " I struggled during the early part of the season, because I was trying to beat him (Prost) in qualifying. It wasn't till mid season I realised that he is supremely gifted in turning out one incredible fast lap. I then thought, something I may have though is the ability to set up a better race car. He still out-qualified me, but from that point on, I started beating him in races."



I loved seeing Prost getting beaten by half a point......by an old man coming back from retirement.

Goatboy said:

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Sometimes photoes do not tell a true story - watch teh video and it clearly shows something different to your photo's



http://youtu.be/PYNe6VzhNo0

SuperShinya56 said:

Can't blame the marshalls.



If you were a marshall......... would you rather brag to your friends that you've 'touched' Valentino Rossi or Casey Stoner?

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Thats ...... funny SS!!

Finally a quality post

Noodles Romanoff said:

Back to Prost, he may have the fastest laps.



Quote from Lauda " I struggled during the early part of the season, because I was trying to beat him (Prost) in qualifying. It wasn't till mid season I realised that he is supremely gifted in turning out one incredible fast lap. I then thought, something I may have though is the ability to set up a better race car. He still out-qualified me, but from that point on, I started beating him in races."



I loved seeing Prost getting beaten by half a point......by an old man coming back from retirement.

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I was chuffed to see niki win by half a point as well, I was a proust fan later in his career because I thought he was really good and unfairly not given as much credit as he deserved, but a much bigger fan of lauda's than I was of either proust or senna. Coming back so soon after nearly burning to death was even more impressive than the old man championship win. He couldn't even be bothered having the plastic surgery afterwards.



Not withstanding this, proust was a great driver as his record shows and I guess I must have a sympathy for the less flamboyant drivers and riders, given we are talking of a time before stoner was born.