I'm not sure it was all that possible, there were 3 bikes worth having. One of them was always going to be Doohans, Repsol would insist the other was Crivilles and th 3rd Repsol Honda was likely to be reserved for the best Japanese rider at that time
I'm not sure it was all that possible, there were 3 bikes worth having. One of them was always going to be Doohans, Repsol would insist the other was Crivilles and th 3rd Repsol Honda was likely to be reserved for the best Japanese rider at that time
Joined Aug 2007
11K Posts | 3K+
Pomona NY
You have an obscure view of what a Robot is.
The packrunners are the run of the mill automatons with occasional progress swapping in small steps.
The stand outs, even though referred to as Aliens these days ........exhibit real "human" behavior.
As to whether or not you lose interest ......... well good luck with that then
When has motogp ever been any different
It bears mentioning Barry that you commonly offer obscure views on just about everything, so much so that I don't bother to comment on them any more than I comment on the blueness of the sky from day to day. Rather than waiting for you to say
something silly or obnoxious so I can pounce on you with a clever rejoinder, I bide my time hoping you'll refrain from such activities, so that you might redeem yourself and put a stop to your endless conflicts over silly ... .....
And to Mr. My-Way-Or-The-Highway/MGP Love it or leave it, I have to ask; who died and made you the king of what denotes proper input at PS? We're all bored with your NEGATIVE politics and cultural backwardness, but when has that ever stopped you from filling up pages and pages of PS threads with those same tiresome rants?
It's one thing to disagree with someone's opinion; another altogether to berate someone merely for having one.
Joined Jul 2006
11K Posts | 291+
Texas
absofuckinglutely i would have found it just as boring if Rossi or Spies or Colin or ANYONE was the winner of a race as spread out as that..come on dude get real.. Example: The Assen race.. was i happy that Spies won the race? .... yeah i was. Was i bored? .... yeah i was, the race was over after lap one turn 3...
Joined Sep 2007
2K Posts | 60+
here
Part of the problem of a spread out pack seems to be the rules - if building a better mousetrap wasn't limited by having to make the engine capable of lasting several races, having to manage on a limited amount of fuel, having to get the bike to work with spec tyres and having next to no testing with contracted riders, I think that the manufacturers could be closer. I agree that most years there has been one machine + rider combo that is outstanding, and often one bike that appears to be the best to be on. Also I realise that it's difficult in today's straitened times for the manufacturers to put the money into development needed if one manufacturer strides ahead.
I still think (and have bleated on here about it often enough) that removing the fuel limit and the testing limits (as someone pointed out recently, the team still test so no money saved, it's just that they are not allowed to use their most valuable asset to do so. An equivalent would be only allowing tests with production engines - not cheaper, but ultimately not helpful in improving the bike.
I have been watching since 1987 and do not want the prototype class dumbed down any more than it has, IMO, already been by stuff listed above and more. I don't find the racing boring, nor do I need the top class to produce races like the stunning Moto2 from Aragon (I'd not complain if it did though). Whilst I'd love a return to the 2-strokes, 990's produced some of the closest racing before these rules were dreamed up.
As many have said, being the top class and the best riders provides its own fascination. I do however, question the changes that have been forced on the series in the name of safety and money saving. I doubt that either the engine rule, the testing rule or the fuel limit have saved anyone any money - more likely they have increased costs.
I know that Rossi and Ducati are struggling at the moment, but that is not my reason for disliking those rules - I was bitching about them in 2009, so no muppeteering here
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
Excellent post!
(btw, i really doubt Pov's inquiry had honest intentions. I think he just wanted to weed out the 'casual' fans me thinks.
)
(btw, i really doubt Pov's inquiry had honest intentions. I think he just wanted to weed out the 'casual' fans me thinks.
I mentioned this in an earlier post. If Stoner is your man, great, you are going to be entertained, happy, orgasmic or whatever word we are allowed to use which is the opposite of the ' B ' word. Must have been the same for the Rossi crew not so long back.
Couple of points for me to finish off on:-
Think Pov wanted to start a social experiment to get a feel for forum members age and how that relates to their expectation of the sport . Here's my details:
40 Years old
First started attending racing meetings in 1971 ( MotoX ). This continues to this day ( mainly AMCA ).
First major international race meeting ( Hawkstone Park 1984 500cc World Champ MotoX round ) and it was fckin ace !
Think my first 500GP was Donington '99 and I have missed one year since
Been trying to done an oversea round of the calendar for the last five years
Attends BSB and WSBK as much as possible
Do not class myself as an expert in any way ( technically or from a knowledge point of view ), just enjoy bike racing.
Next:-
Think it was mentioned that if you watch racing to be entertained, you are not really passionate about the sport.... Bit strange. Imagine going to a restaurant where you love the way the Chef cooks and you admire his fish gutting skills, but his food tastes like .... and makes you vomit everytime you eat. Would you blame anyone for not going back ?
Next:-
We do have to remember that this sport is all the better for having entertainers. How many people would be sitting here like a bunch of saddo's with no life typing away until god know's what time in the morning if a certain Valentino Rossi had not jumped on a bike ? I know all the ' hard core ' members will be saying ' I would be on here ' and that may be true. But I remember watching GP's when there was 20,000 attending. I am not saying the actual racing was worse or better in those days ( this is not a comment about the actual racing at all ) but its much more fun when you go to Brno and there is 150,000 miling around on race day.
Entertainers bring more potential viewers, more viewers bring better TV coverage and we all get to watch the racing ( even people who are not lucky enough to attend them )
Some members might say the forum would be better without these ' new to the sport ' members who only want to be entertained, but I disagree. We were all new to something at sometime. Normally an interest in a sport or hobby comes intially from finding it fun or being entertained by it. From that comes a more indepth interest which may lead to looking at the history of the sport, or by looking into the technical aspects etc.
Without entertainers in a sport or a sport being entertaining, it slowly dies through lack of commercial interest.
I have not asked for any changes to the MotoGP format. I merely state that at present Moto2 is a better watch
On that note, this thread is becoming BORINGso I am off !!!!!!
ENJOY MY FELLOW MOTORCYCLE RACING FANS !!!!!
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
It bothers me that u can not follow the points being discussed in this thread and respond with irrelevant replies. Hehehe
Dude, I'm "bored" with Stoner winning. You know, because I've only been defending him from the naysayers since 2007. Hahaha
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
Is this thread still going on about "boooorrriiiinnnggg"
Get real folks the guy, "Curve" aka "Billy Ray CRYus", dresses like a village people cowboy .... nuf said!........ he and his bopper mates always have a sook whenever Stoner wins ..... its a fact of life, like "the sun will set" ..... get used to it and ignore them.
Then i guess Kropo is a sook too, as he pretty much had the exact same take on the race. Grow the .... up. Add something reasonable to the thread.
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
No, i dont believe u. Its obvious u secretly hate stoner. U also dont understand the sport. Newsflash, its "prototype" racing u closet bopper. Tell us what u really feel.
.
Joined Feb 2008
3K Posts | 470+
Outback Steakhouse
IN FACT I LOVE YOU ALL !!! ( no negativity there Pov !!! ) I am Officially out of this thread !
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
I said i was outta here on this thread, but against my better judgement I had to just drop in and see what was going on. I love this forum !!!!!!
IN FACT I LOVE YOU ALL !!! ( no negativity there Pov !!! ) I am Officially out of this thread !
NOOO.... Come back, we need the voice of reason. Oh wait, Pov is here. Ok, you can leave....hehehe
Pov knows I love him. Without a man like him we wouldn't have silly alternate words for the same ...., for example the "Civil War" did you know many Southerns refuse to call it that and use the term "The War of Northern Aggression" (seriously, look it up).
So like I said, please folks, don't express the lack of excitement as "boring" use the word "typical".
Joined Feb 2008
2K Posts | 0+
home
I really like debating this whole prototype vs entertainment thing, because it has always been so pervasive in the top motorsports series. Unfortunately, I can't find enough time to properly engage in it at the moment (precious people like me should not need to work).
I do want to get a few remarks in. The painful part first: Jumkie, you know I really appreciate all your input around here, but I am a bit disappointed by the number of times you have resorted to ad hominem (because I think you declare people's arguments as invalid because they support a certain rider) and appeals to authority (because I think you're implying that it is not ok for people to argue that they feel the current formula is not boring[sup]1[/sup] because Kropotkin said the last race was boring).
Perhaps we can start afresh. I think we can all agree that we want the best riders to be successful. I think we don't all agree on the amount of influence we want machinery to have. For me, the formula should always be best rider+best bike+some luck=success. This is the reason I want to see Stoner do well: I believe he is a great rider, maybe the best of his era. This is also the reason I want Ducati to become successful again: I have always had a soft spot for the marque.
I think some of you prefer to formula to be best rider+some luck=success. I can understand that, but I just don't believe that we should go for that in motogp: we already have performance indexing in superbike. How many of you believe that Checa is dominant because the 1098 is so much better than the RSV-4 or the R1? How many think it's because they got the performance indexing wrong? My point is, sbk is fun to watch, but it tells you nothing about the quality of the design of the bikes. Motogp does, although it is still highly dependent on rider input.
Now, I would love to go on and on about this, because I think the general opinion of the fans is increasingly important to those in power. Not because some democratic spirit, but because our money talks. But, I can't keep up with the threat at the moment. So here, I dug up a few posts related to this matter I posted recently. If you're looking for logical inconsistencies and other ammo, or if you simply are able to appreciate a opinion that's perhaps different to your own, click here:
http://www.powerslid...75
http://www.powerslid...76
http://www.powerslid...53
http://www.powerslid...42
http://www.powerslid...42
http://www.powerslid...68
At least no one can accuse me of clogging up this threat, huh?
Note[sup]1[/sup]: and let's not get diverted into semantics here
I do want to get a few remarks in. The painful part first: Jumkie, you know I really appreciate all your input around here, but I am a bit disappointed by the number of times you have resorted to ad hominem (because I think you declare people's arguments as invalid because they support a certain rider) and appeals to authority (because I think you're implying that it is not ok for people to argue that they feel the current formula is not boring[sup]1[/sup] because Kropotkin said the last race was boring).
Perhaps we can start afresh. I think we can all agree that we want the best riders to be successful. I think we don't all agree on the amount of influence we want machinery to have. For me, the formula should always be best rider+best bike+some luck=success. This is the reason I want to see Stoner do well: I believe he is a great rider, maybe the best of his era. This is also the reason I want Ducati to become successful again: I have always had a soft spot for the marque.
I think some of you prefer to formula to be best rider+some luck=success. I can understand that, but I just don't believe that we should go for that in motogp: we already have performance indexing in superbike. How many of you believe that Checa is dominant because the 1098 is so much better than the RSV-4 or the R1? How many think it's because they got the performance indexing wrong? My point is, sbk is fun to watch, but it tells you nothing about the quality of the design of the bikes. Motogp does, although it is still highly dependent on rider input.
Now, I would love to go on and on about this, because I think the general opinion of the fans is increasingly important to those in power. Not because some democratic spirit, but because our money talks. But, I can't keep up with the threat at the moment. So here, I dug up a few posts related to this matter I posted recently. If you're looking for logical inconsistencies and other ammo, or if you simply are able to appreciate a opinion that's perhaps different to your own, click here:
http://www.powerslid...75
http://www.powerslid...76
http://www.powerslid...53
http://www.powerslid...42
http://www.powerslid...42
http://www.powerslid...68
At least no one can accuse me of clogging up this threat, huh?
Note[sup]1[/sup]: and let's not get diverted into semantics here
Joined Apr 2011
477 Posts | 195+
Romania
i`m also 40 years old, and i was born in 1971. how did you managed to go to races in 1971?
anyway, my first bike was a MZ 250, and my father helped me with money when i bought it in 1991. i live in eastern europe, so i only start to watch races in 2006, when a friend of mine told me
to watch motogp and since then, i`m an addict. i never get bored on a race weekend, i watch all sessions, and yes, sometimes i`m disappointed but bored, never.
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
I don't assume one must exist without the other, as I've seen it argued on this thread to pad their argument that "typical/disappointing" racing is a product of one and scripted for the other.
I equally appreciate your contributions and equally disappointed that you can't see the double standard in what you are saying above. The people who have described the racing as boring (Curve is in quite good company) have been relegated quickly into the categories of being boppers and being ignorant. I've done this myself, yes, along with you in tow (but of course we were right, hehe). So its a bit rich for you to say this above. We've for the most part stayed on topic, the moments I have resorted to ad hominem is to reply in kind, that is, when I reply to a person who's gone off the reservation with their post. What do you suggest at that point? I'm suppose to stay on cue and take the high rode right? Well its my style to drop or elevate to the level of the person i'm replying to. Michaelm's style is to take the high rode, regardless that the poster took digs at him. That is not my style. I've made a conscience decision to reply .... as their post merits it in my impatient estimation. As far as Kropo's characterization, I noticed you guys struggled to maintain the line of reasoning. Why? If it applies to Curve & Co, why not Kropo? Oh .... ...., you're not gonna go on and on about the nature of the sport or question his motives right? Opps, commence backpedaling. You may say you're disappointed because I've come off a bit harsh, but mostly that was in response to those questioning my motives for finding the racing this last weekend in the top class a bit anti-climatic. Well, it was. And at the same time we all could admire the extreme talent of the the riders. But you guys were having none of that, it MUST be EXCITING because you guys can "appreciate" the racing; the suggestion that we are too dumb to appreciate it like you. C'mon man, you and the others can't question my motives or understanding or logic and then expect me not to push back. No need to be disappointed, the anticipation of what I will reply is not a mystery my good friend. (Btw, see below your links, tell me something, should the rest be disappointed in you?) hahaha
Oh Ok, now that you've called me out, lets have a fresh start.... Group hugs all around. (Except you BM...)
(Don't worry Steif, we have a strong relationship, nothing can change that, we had some good times stomping on Talps, eh buddy, hehe)
For some years, Wsbk was a better measure of the rider. Today we have a two-caste system of bike parity in GP. Up until 2011 we heard how the "aliens" (one in particular) could move from bike to bike and they would still be on top. Enter 2011, that myth is blown away. So no, we still have ...... parity in the bikes. The prototype nature is NOT being admired, as much as suddenly on this thread its been lathered up. Most everybody is calling for Ducati to drop its "prototype" ways for a more conventional bike circa 1960. Yeah, that's right, that's how "innovative" the technology is, so lets not get all romantic about "prototype" racing, as for the most part, its dead my friend.
Love, Jum.
Joined Feb 2008
3K Posts | 470+
Outback Steakhouse
i`m also 40 years old, and i was born in 1971. how did you managed to go to races in 1971?
anyway, my first bike was a MZ 250, and my father helped me with money when i bought it in 1991. i live in eastern europe, so i only start to watch races in 2006, when a friend of mine told me
to watch motogp and since then, i`m an addict. i never get bored on a race weekend, i watch all sessions, and yes, sometimes i`m disappointed but bored, never.
Mum and Dad raced every weekend without fail. I was at the track when she was pregnant and I was at the track from pretty much the first minute I graced this planet of ours with my presence
Joined Oct 2006
25K Posts | 4K+
Your Mom's House
Mum and Dad raced every weekend without fail. I was at the track when she was pregnant and I was at the track from pretty much the first minute I graced this planet of ours with my presence
And I totally believe it! When I was at Silverstone, I think I commented to you that there was a baby in the hands of a rather large women. I felt both concerned for the baby, as it was -78 wind chill factor, but at the same time tickled that Brit families share the good times at the races despite whatever age (or F..ed up weather).
Joined Feb 2008
3K Posts | 470+
Outback Steakhouse
And I totally believe it! When I was at Silverstone, I think I commented to you that there was a baby in the hands of a rather large women. I felt both concerned for the baby, as it was -78 wind chill factor, but at the same time tickled that Brit families share the good times at the races despite whatever age (or F..ed up weather).
You love the UK weather Compa. I know its true......
Joined Jan 2011
3K Posts | 152+
The North!
Jeez Wills racing really does flow through your veins.
Must have been 2 stroke back then. 2 stroke sniffing from crib!!!? Much respect!
Jumk's if only you could have been at WSBK silvo. Then you could have truly experienced what a green and pleasant land it can be
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