2024 Gran Premio Estrella Galicia 0,0 de España - Circuit Jerez

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I agree. Ducati get to choose who they give updates or not. Marquez has been clearly the standout rider on the GP23, so it's only fair that he gets updates. Diggia was underwhelming for most of last year and was widely expected to be out of MotoGP altogether until he was given a VR46 seat because they had no one else to fill it, so why would he get updates?

It would be like Morbidelli getting updates before Martin at Pramac.
My reading is that as the main Ducati test rider he has a close relationship with the lead factory Ducati rider in Bagnaia and doesn’t want to see a newcomer/interloper like MM given any preferment, and particularly not any fruits of his/Pirro’s own labours, perhaps being of the view he did the work on Bagnaia’s behalf rather than to help MM, and his view would appear to be that as far as he is concerned if MM is to win he can do so on old equipment as Di Giannantonio did last season.

If we are to hold him to the same standard as far as logic is concerned that we do on this forum what he says doesn’t make sense, if even the 2024 bike isn’t substantively better than the 2023 bike then an upgraded 2023 bike shouldn’t be a problem either, and if Bagnaia simply flat out outrode MM then he should be able to do so again.

Great credit has rightly been given to Bagnaia even by strong MM partisans for his first lap and the lap on which he set the lap record near the end of the race on worn tyres, both examples of brilliant riding and indeed major reasons he won the race. But another major reason he won was because MM’s pass didn’t stick, which as MM said post race was when he was going to win the race if he was going to do so. I don’t see that move as riding brilliance, just a determination not to be passed by MM which extended to a preference for both of them crashing out over being successfully passed. I don’t recall any moves from MM while he was stealing the 2015 title from Valentino at Sepang 2015 quite as drastic as that one, and I doubt MM would have attracted anything except trenchant criticism for a similar move.
 
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I was not refering to anyone in specific. I just said I find it bizarre people being fans or having idols, not that you guys have idols in racing or whatever. I just took the ocasion to say that.
Sure, totally makes sense. You were just making random statements about people and thing totally unrelated to the topic at hand or the people discussing it. Sure, I buy that.
 
Updates for the GP23 riders may depend on what leasing contracts the teams signed. Ducati have also previously stopped giving updates to riders who are going to a competitor the following year, perhaps they want to see who their current riders signup with before giving parts updates
 
Updates for the GP23 riders may depend on what leasing contracts the teams signed. Ducati have also previously stopped giving updates to riders who are going to a competitor the following year, perhaps they want to see who their current riders signup with before giving parts updates
A good point.

Pirro sounds irked, and if MM is getting updates without being committed to Ducati next season that might be a contributor to his attitude. Otherwise Pirro just sounds incoherent to me.

On the other hand Gigi is running things, not him, and if Gigi wants to give MM updates perhaps as an enticement or for any other reason that is up to him.
 
Well, as every internet discussion eventually devolves to Hitler/Nazis, every MGPF discussion eventually (immediately?) devolves into Rossi/MM/Stoner. Do y'all not realize how ridiculous this groundhog day, continuous rehashing, is?

Wake me up when y'all have a definitive answer, 'til then I'll be enjoying current racing in all classes, in all series globally (when I can) and not wasting my time on the weird, obsessive, fascination with intractable topics.
 
Well, as every internet discussion eventually devolves to Hitler/Nazis, every MGPF discussion eventually (immediately?) devolves into Rossi/MM/Stoner. Do y'all not realize how ridiculous this groundhog day, continuous rehashing, is?

Wake me up when y'all have a definitive answer, 'til then I'll be enjoying current racing in all classes, in all series globally (when I can) and not wasting my time on the weird, obsessive, fascination with intractable topics.
While I’m not interested in digging up the past either, I’m happy for those who do to do it, just wish they did it in its own thread
 
Well, as every internet discussion eventually devolves to Hitler/Nazis, every MGPF discussion eventually (immediately?) devolves into Rossi/MM/Stoner. Do y'all not realize how ridiculous this groundhog day, continuous rehashing, is?

Wake me up when y'all have a definitive answer, 'til then I'll be enjoying current racing in all classes, in all series globally (when I can) and not wasting my time on the weird, obsessive, fascination with intractable topics.
As far as I can tell MM is still racing, finished second in this race ahead of a guy riding for the VR46 team who finished third and doesn’t seem to like him very much, and someone who is not a regular member of the forum brought up the topic of MM ‘s general perfidy and his hopes for his future failure,. Another guy who disagrees with several regular forum members about MM with which I have no problem brought up Stoner.
 
Sure, totally makes sense. You were just making random statements about people and thing totally unrelated to the topic at hand or the people discussing it. Sure, I buy that.
I see no problem, people are allowed to have different opinions about MM and to support riders of their own nationality, I have always been pretty much the same myself, although unfortunately Jack who has given me reason to cheer him at his best is not giving me much to work with at the moment. He has however imo been worth a place on the grid at least for much of his career with the technology now perhaps having moved against him. Bagnaia is obviously really good whether or not his personality appeals.
 
I see no problem, people are allowed to have different opinions about MM and to support riders of their own nationality, I have always been pretty much the same myself, although unfortunately Jack who has given me reason to cheer him at his best is not giving me much to work with at the moment. He has however imo been worth a place on the grid at least for much of his career with the technology now perhaps having moved against him. Bagnaia is obviously really good whether or not his personality appeals.
I have a problem with opinion not being supported by evidence, and there was plenty of that.
 
My reading is that as the main Ducati test rider he has a close relationship with the lead factory Ducati rider in Bagnaia and doesn’t want to see a newcomer/interloper like MM given any preferment, and particularly not any fruits of his/Pirro’s own labours, perhaps being of the view he did the work on Bagnaia’s behalf rather than to help MM, and his view would appear to be that as far as he is concerned if MM is to win he can do so on old equipment as Di Giannantonio did last season.

If we are to hold him to the same standard as far as logic is concerned that we do on this forum what he says doesn’t make sense, if even the 2024 bike isn’t substantively better than the 2023 bike then an upgraded 2023 bike shouldn’t be a problem either, and if Bagnaia simply flat out outrode MM then he should be able to do so again.

Great credit has rightly been given to Bagnaia even by strong MM partisans for his first lap and the lap on which he set the lap record near the end of the race on worn tyres, both examples of brilliant riding and indeed major reasons he won the race. But another major reason he won was because MM’s pass didn’t stick, which as oMM said post race was when he was going to win the race if he was going to do so. I don’t see that move as riding brilliance, just a determination not to be passed by MM which extended to a preference for both of them crashing out over being successfully passed. I don’t recall any moves from MM while he was stealing the 2015 title from Valentino at Sepang 2015 quite as drastic as that one, and I doubt MM would have attracted anything except trenchant criticism for a similar move.

Great credit has rightly been given to Bagnaia even by strong MM partisans for his first lap and the lap on which he set the lap record near the end of the race on worn tyres, both examples of brilliant riding and indeed major reasons he won the race. But another major reason he won was because MM’s pass didn’t stick, which as MM said post race was when he was going to win the race if he was going to do so. I don’t see that move as riding brilliance, just a determination not to be passed by MM which extended to a preference for both of them crashing out over being successfully passed. I don’t recall any moves from MM while he was stealing the 2015 title from Valentino at Sepang 2015 quite as drastic as that one, and I doubt MM would have attracted anything except trenchant criticism for a similar

My reading is that as the main Ducati test rider he has a close relationship with the lead factory Ducati rider in Bagnaia and doesn’t want to see a newcomer/interloper like MM given any preferment, and particularly not any fruits of his/Pirro’s own labours, perhaps being of the view he did the work on Bagnaia’s behalf rather than to help MM, and his view would appear to be that as far as he is concerned if MM is to win he can do so on old equipment as Di Giannantonio did last season.

If we are to hold him to the same standard as far as logic is concerned that we do on this forum what he says doesn’t make sense, if even the 2024 bike isn’t substantively better than the 2023 bike then an upgraded 2023 bike shouldn’t be a problem either, and if Bagnaia simply flat out outrode MM then he should be able to do so again.

Great credit has rightly been given to Bagnaia even by strong MM partisans for his first lap and the lap on which he set the lap record near the end of the race on worn tyres, both examples of brilliant riding and indeed major reasons he won the race. But another major reason he won was because MM’s pass didn’t stick, which as MM said post race was when he was going to win the race if he was going to do so. I don’t see that move as riding brilliance, just a determination not to be passed by MM which extended to a preference for both of them crashing out over being successfully passed. I don’t recall any moves from MM while he was stealing the 2015 title from Valentino at Sepang 2015 quite as drastic as that one, and I doubt MM would have attracted anything except trenchant criticism for a similar move.

Great credit has rightly been given to Bagnaia even by strong MM partisans for his first lap and the lap on which he set the lap record near the end of the race on worn tyres, both examples of brilliant riding and indeed major reasons he won the race. But another major reason he won was because MM’s pass didn’t stick, which as MM said post race was when he was going to win the race if he was going to do so. I don’t see that move as riding brilliance, just a determination not to be passed by MM which extended to a preference for both of them crashing out over being successfully passed. I don’t recall any moves from MM while he was stealing the 2015 title from Valentino at Sepang 2015 quite as drastic as that one, and I doubt MM would have attracted anything except trenchant criticism for a similar move.
I feel that Pecco found a new level on Sunday during his fight with Marc. After the strong pass attempts by MM and equally strong defending by Bag to then set a lap record pace to gap Marc showed a level of concentration and determination I really didn’t think he was capable of. I’ve always thought him slightly flaky when the pressure was on but he is now he’s shown he is a very serious challenger to anyone.
 
Sorry about my messy post. Was trying to figure out how to reply to the last paragraph of Michaelms post but I fooked it up. Doh!
 
No one here is claiming there is half a second between the GP23 and GP24. But it is a better bike. They would not be running it if it were not so. I also add, again, that Marc is by far outperforming the other GP23 riders.

Interesting to note that in that article, it claims that Marc is getting updates soon.
Half a second over race distance though? Probably.
 
My reading is that as the main Ducati test rider he has a close relationship with the lead factory Ducati rider in Bagnaia and doesn’t want to see a newcomer/interloper like MM given any preferment, and particularly not any fruits of his/Pirro’s own labours, perhaps being of the view he did the work on Bagnaia’s behalf rather than to help MM, and his view would appear to be that as far as he is concerned if MM is to win he can do so on old equipment as Di Giannantonio did last season.

If we are to hold him to the same standard as far as logic is concerned that we do on this forum what he says doesn’t make sense, if even the 2024 bike isn’t substantively better than the 2023 bike then an upgraded 2023 bike shouldn’t be a problem either, and if Bagnaia simply flat out outrode MM then he should be able to do so again.

Great credit has rightly been given to Bagnaia even by strong MM partisans for his first lap and the lap on which he set the lap record near the end of the race on worn tyres, both examples of brilliant riding and indeed major reasons he won the race. But another major reason he won was because MM’s pass didn’t stick, which as MM said post race was when he was going to win the race if he was going to do so. I don’t see that move as riding brilliance, just a determination not to be passed by MM which extended to a preference for both of them crashing out over being successfully passed. I don’t recall any moves from MM while he was stealing the 2015 title from Valentino at Sepang 2015 quite as drastic as that one, and I doubt MM would have attracted anything except trenchant criticism for a similar move.
Great post. I see it as Pirro works for Ducati, not Bagnaia. He may be irked about MM joining, but if he doesnt like how things are run, he's free to leave, right?

I totally agree with you about credit to Bagnaia for his race on Sunday. His T6 pass around the outside of 2 riders on lap 1 was nothing but sensational, and he rode like a champion keeping the pressure on Martin until he crashed. If he rode like that and Aragon 2021 every race, he'd be unstoppable.
A good point.

Pirro sounds irked, and if MM is getting updates without being committed to Ducati next season that might be a contributor to his attitude. Otherwise Pirro just sounds incoherent to me.

On the other hand Gigi is running things, not him, and if Gigi wants to give MM updates perhaps as an enticement or for any other reason that is up to him.
*officially commited*. As you aluded to, we have no idea what conversations are going on behind the scenes.

Half a second over race distance though? Probably.
I don't disagree.
 
I totally agree with you about credit to Bagnaia for his race on Sunday. His T6 pass around the outside of 2 riders on lap 1 was nothing but sensational, and he rode like a champion keeping the pressure on Martin until he crashed. If he rode like that and Aragon 2021 every race, he'd be unstoppable.
Other than the skills to make the pass, it was impressive that he predicted that both guys in front were going to take very defensive lines which would give him space on the outside to brake later.
 
Other than the skills to make the pass, it was impressive that he predicted that both guys in front were going to take very defensive lines which would give him space on the outside to brake later.

Even a stopped clock is right twice a day. I give him credit but he does make a lot of bad moves. His first lap was impressive. His last couple laps were impressive. The way he got back in front of Marc could have resulted in a penalty. I have seen in the past a move like the require the rider to give the position back. If it was Binder he most certainly would have been penalized.
 
Even a stopped clock is right twice a day. I give him credit but he does make a lot of bad moves. His first lap was impressive. His last couple laps were impressive. The way he got back in front of Marc could have resulted in a penalty. I have seen in the past a move like the require the rider to give the position back. If it was Binder he most certainly would have been penalized.
He also was very UN impressive on Saturday, blew his lap that left him 7th, which ultimately left him in the pack and vulnerable to the accident he was involved in.
 

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