Yamaha: Why Lorenzo won't test twice for Ducati

JKant said:

From Yamaha's perspective, there are really only two pertinent questions with respect to Rossi's tyre -

1. Which tyre is Rossi faster on? Not faster vis a vis Lorenzo or Marquez. Just faster in general. Given the M1's characteristics, that's the 2015 edge-treated Bridgestone-type. Better grip, better corner speed, better results. Good for Yamaha.

2. If its Rossi's destiny to finish a perpetual second, which rider would they prefer he do so behind? If someone has to win, better a Yamaha than a Honda. And if it enables Tech 3 to fight for the top independent honours, better still.


And either way, they do appear to have done their best to retain Lorenzo for 2017-18 seasons.


Rossi's problem was an unusually high number of DNFs enabling Marquez to subsequently run relatively low-risk races while managing the points gap.

He was dominant at Argentina, Austin, Aragon, Japan & Australia but in most other races Rossi had a comparable or better pace. Its quite possible that if not for the Mugello blowup (a software rather than tyre issue), Marquez would have wrapped up his title only at Valencia (might even have had to fight for it, depending on his luck).

Point isn't that Marquez's victory is undeserved. Its not, he's ridden an outstanding season. Its that Rossi's performances have earned him his place in the team, on merit alone. Its different from say.. the 2014 season, where he finished ahead of Lorenzo & Pedrosa but they were really only fighting over scraps.

Also, while Marquez will be the obvious favourite to take the 2017 title (much like Lorenzo was this year, until Catalunya), I wouldn't write off Rossi altogether. Or even Vinales.

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In the seven seasons that Rossi and Lorenzo have been on the same team Rossi has merited his place by finishing ahead 4-3 in championship results.

Daniboy said:

If you look at how this years title was won MM had a consistent year with virtually no mistakes and a lot of luck in some races. Comparatively VR made many mistakes and luck didn't go his way at all.
Next year will not be the same I'm sure.

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I'm sure it won't, MM will likely have a bike that won't lose out so badly in acceleration and if given the bike that Honda should be giving him will be dominant.

Daniboy said:

In the seven seasons that Rossi and Lorenzo have been on the same team Rossi has merited his place by finishing ahead 4-3 in championship results.

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The same team not the same equipment. In 2008 Rossi had the Bridgestones while Lorenzo was forced to stay with Michelin. So really it's 3-3, Lorenzo however has won 2 titles during that time.

p4p1 said:

I'm sure it won't, MM will likely have a bike that won't lose out so badly in acceleration and if given the bike that Honda should be giving him will be dominant.

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Supposedly, Marquez is really pleased with the 2017 bike so far. He says it's on par with the 2016 bike already straight out of the box. He is confident with testing, it will be much better. Word is they tamed the beast without sacrificing any power. If the bike has a normal progression this off season, i look for Marquez to have a dominant season in 2017. One thing though, if Marquez has trouble or gets hurt, Rossi will back into a title. I cant see Lorenzo being a title contender his first year at Ducati, Dani seems done, neither Suzuki rider has what it takes That leaves Marquez and Vinales. Wouldnt it be hilarious if Marquez took himself out of the title race only to see Vinales beat Rossi for the title. You wouldnt be able to cut the tension with a knife in the Yamaha paddock if that were to happen. Uccio would have a stroke.

JKant said:

From Yamaha's perspective, there are really only two pertinent questions with respect to Rossi's tyre -

1. Which tyre is Rossi faster on? Not faster vis a vis Lorenzo or Marquez. Just faster in general. Given the M1's characteristics, that's the 2015 edge-treated Bridgestone-type. Better grip, better corner speed, better results. Good for Yamaha.

2. If its Rossi's destiny to finish a perpetual second, which rider would they prefer he do so behind? If someone has to win, better a Yamaha than a Honda. And if it enables Tech 3 to fight for the top independent honours, better still.


And either way, they do appear to have done their best to retain Lorenzo for 2017-18 seasons.


Rossi's problem was an unusually high number of DNFs enabling Marquez to subsequently run relatively low-risk races while managing the points gap.

He was dominant at Argentina, Austin, Aragon, Japan & Australia but in most other races Rossi had a comparable or better pace. Its quite possible that if not for the Mugello blowup (a software rather than tyre issue), Marquez would have wrapped up his title only at Valencia (might even have had to fight for it, depending on his luck).

Point isn't that Marquez's victory is undeserved. Its not, he's ridden an outstanding season. Its that Rossi's performances have earned him his place in the team, on merit alone. Its different from say.. the 2014 season, where he finished ahead of Lorenzo & Pedrosa but they were really only fighting over scraps.

Also, while Marquez will be the obvious favourite to take the 2017 title (much like Lorenzo was this year, until Catalunya), I wouldn't write off Rossi altogether. Or even Vinales.

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I am well aware of Rossi's high number of dnfs, and of it being quite out of character in comparison with the rest of his premier class career saving his rookie season. However he also changed his approach this year, particularly in terms of prioritising a high qualifying position and pushing hard early in races, a rational choice imo given getting behind early is what probably cost him the title in 2015, but also probably not unrelated to the large number of dnfs he had.

So he would appear to be damned if he does and damned if he doesn't imo, with 2nd his best result whichever approach he takes, unless Yamaha and he can develop a significant bike advantage, since I don't see MM having another year, while in contention for the title anyway, like 2015 when he threw his own bike down the road 6 times. MM can of course always have bad luck, but I think it is well past the stage he can be said to have had good luck with a high risk riding style, since he has shown himself capable both of winning through consistency when not entirely happy with his bike and winning 10 races on the bounce when he is happy with his Honda.

povol said:

Supposedly, Marquez is really pleased with the 2017 bike so far. He says it's on par with the 2016 bike already straight out of the box. He is confident with testing, it will be much better. Word is they tamed the beast without sacrificing any power. If the bike has a normal progression this off season, i look for Marquez to have a dominant season in 2017. One thing though, if Marquez has trouble or gets hurt, Rossi will back into a title. I cant see Lorenzo being a title contender his first year at Ducati, Dani seems done, neither Suzuki rider has what it takes That leaves Marquez and Vinales. Wouldnt it be hilarious if Marquez took himself out of the title race only to see Vinales beat Rossi for the title. You wouldnt be able to cut the tension with a knife in the Yamaha paddock if that were to happen. Uccio would have a stroke.

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I'm a Rossi fan and hope it's Vinales year next year. I'll wait and see how Rossi reacts but he already knows Vinales isn't slow.

povol said:

Supposedly, Marquez is really pleased with the 2017 bike so far. He says it's on par with the 2016 bike already straight out of the box. He is confident with testing, it will be much better. Word is they tamed the beast without sacrificing any power. If the bike has a normal progression this off season, i look for Marquez to have a dominant season in 2017. One thing though, if Marquez has trouble or gets hurt, Rossi will back into a title. I cant see Lorenzo being a title contender his first year at Ducati, Dani seems done, neither Suzuki rider has what it takes That leaves Marquez and Vinales. Wouldnt it be hilarious if Marquez took himself out of the title race only to see Vinales beat Rossi for the title. You wouldnt be able to cut the tension with a knife in the Yamaha paddock if that were to happen. Uccio would have a stroke.

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Lucio C(whatever the .... the rest of it is) said as well that the 2017 Honda was a big step up with the engine. He wasn't so coy like MM and DP.

If Honda fix the bike, Marquez will dominate MotoGP. It'll take a serious injury to stop the guy winning year after year. He's potentially Dorna's biggest nightmare...

yamfan said:

If Honda fix the bike, Marquez will dominate MotoGP. It'll take a serious injury to stop the guy winning year after year. He's potentially Dorna's biggest nightmare...

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Have to agree, i think he will dominate for the next few years in the same way Rossi did in his early years.

The person that beats him probably isn't even in the series yet and still riding pocket bikes somewhere .... hopefully not in Spain.

Its very strange that a bunch of people here forgot how much Rossi gave to that sport....
And no matter what you think MotoGP will lose if Rossi is out, on the other hand MotoGP will not lose much if Jorge is out of the equation.
I respect Lorenzo for his talent, but his personality is everything that you shouldn't be in sport today.

Yamaha choice was just, and Jorge will have a lot of time with his new machine, so only the future will tell us what will happen.

iNfRaSoNiC said:

Its very strange that a bunch of people here forgot how much Rossi gave to that sport....
And no matter what you think MotoGP will lose if Rossi is out, on the other hand MotoGP will not lose much if Jorge is out of the equation.
I respect Lorenzo for his talent, but his personality is everything that you shouldn't be in sport today.

Yamaha choice was just, and Jorge will have a lot of time with his new machine, so only the future will tell us what will happen.

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I think you don't really understand why Rossi had so much success in the series, it was all to do with Uccio who is the inspiration behind Rossi and the one who set his team and bike up to allow him to win. Without Uccio Rossi is nothing, Rossi rides the bike sure, and this is an important part but is actually the easiest part. The hard part is assembling the team of the RIGHT people, developing the bike in the right direction, coaching the rider in his technique, developing the riders confidence. Uccio did all this for Rossi and never asked for anything in return and thats why Rossi won all those championships. If Uccio was doing this for Lorenzo then he would have won every championship he has ever competed in not just the 3 he has currently won. Lorenzo is a better rider than Rossi but doesn't have the same advantage of Uccio.

AJV80 said:

I think you don't really understand why Rossi had so much success in the series, it was all to do with Uccio who is the inspiration behind Rossi and the one who set his team and bike up to allow him to win. Without Uccio Rossi is nothing, Rossi rides the bike sure, and this is an important part but is actually the easiest part. The hard part is assembling the team of the RIGHT people, developing the bike in the right direction, coaching the rider in his technique, developing the riders confidence. Uccio did all this for Rossi and never asked for anything in return and thats why Rossi won all those championships. If Uccio was doing this for Lorenzo then he would have won every championship he has ever competed in not just the 3 he has currently won. Lorenzo is a better rider than Rossi but doesn't have the same advantage of Uccio.

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You say that Uccio has won 9 world titles ?
Anyway, I was talking about the sport in general not just Vale.

iNfRaSoNiC said:

You say that Uccio has won 9 world titles ?
Anyway, I was talking about the sport in general not just Vale.

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I wouldn't say Uccio won them all on his own but he contributed at least 70% towards each one of those tiles, which is a lot more than Rossi but Rossi gets 100% of the credit. There is a reason he has a seperate contract to VR and attends every race. He plays the mandolin at the end of each race day for the team and can speak 4 languages fluently, he actually writes poems before each race that are so beautiful and inspiring when read that they cannot be forgotten and inspire the team and the rider to a higher level.

When he develops a strategy for Rossi to improve his times, he doesn't watch video playbacks of his laps or look at tenementary data. He is old school, he pops on his shades, closes his eyes and puts his headphones on and simply listens to playbacks of Rossis engine and tunes the bike and changes its geometry based on sound alone. Nobody else in the paddock can do this because sensors can go out of calibration and give false data, but engine sound doesn't lie.

iNfRaSoNiC said:

Its very strange that a bunch of people here forgot how much Rossi gave to that sport....
And no matter what you think MotoGP will lose if Rossi is out, on the other hand MotoGP will not lose much if Jorge is out of the equation.
I respect Lorenzo for his talent, but his personality is everything that you shouldn't be in sport today.

Yamaha choice was just, and Jorge will have a lot of time with his new machine, so only the future will tell us what will happen.

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.... off with that ..... Everything Rossi has done, he has done for himself. We indirectly because of Rossi lost one of the greatest talents to ever ride a bike. It's a much bigger shame than a bunch of one eyed ....... leaving because they're demigod retires.

p4p1 said:

.... off with that ..... Everything Rossi has done, he has done for himself. We indirectly because of Rossi lost one of the greatest talents to ever ride a bike. It's a much bigger shame than a bunch of one eyed ....... leaving because they're demigod retires.

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Everything that every human has done was for themselves.

Who did "we" lose because of Rossi?

moto vudu said:

Everything that every human has done was for themselves.

Who did "we" lose because of Rossi?

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Casey Stoner. If not for his treatment by the Rossi fans and media he would likely still be in the championship.

Yes every athlete does it for themselves that's my point. Rossi has never done anything for the better of the sport if it didn't serve his interests.

p4p1 said:

Casey Stoner. If not for his treatment by the Rossi fans and media he would likely still be in the championship.

Yes every athlete does it for themselves that's my point. Rossi has never done anything for the better of the sport if it didn't serve his interests.

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Casey Stoner is mentally weak. For every "fan" that disliked him, dozens of others admired him. He only focused on the negative and didn't truly enjoy the sport enough to want to continue. Stoner actually needed Rossi in order to showcase his own talent. You can't be considered one of the greats if you're not competing against the greats. If Stoner was competing for his own personal goals, he wouldn't have cared about how others perceived him, but apparently he was motivated by external things that he had no control over. Media and fans not treating him right? :cry: NOBODY can make EVERYONE like them. If Stoner didn't learn that lesson as a kid, tough ....! Hopefully he has learned it by now.

Rossi loves the sport so the things he does for his own enjoyment also benefits the sport and others. When Rossi invites young riders to his ranch and to Misano for training, do you think those kids give a damn about what motivates him? If Rossi helped them shaved seconds off their lap times while giving them valuable advice that would've taken them years to learn on their own, they're grateful!

moto vudu said:

Casey Stoner is mentally weak. For every "fan" that disliked him, dozens of others admired him. He only focused on the negative and didn't truly enjoy the sport enough to want to continue. Stoner actually needed Rossi in order to showcase his own talent. You can't be considered one of the greats if you're not competing against the greats. If Stoner was competing for his own personal goals, he wouldn't have cared about how others perceived him, but apparently he was motivated by external things that he had no control over. Media and fans not treating him right? :cry: NOBODY can make EVERYONE like them. If Stoner didn't learn that lesson as a kid, tough ....! Hopefully he has learned it by now.

Rossi loves the sport so the things he does for his own enjoyment also benefits the sport and others. When Rossi invites young riders to his ranch and to Misano for training, do you think those kids give a damn about what motivates him? If Rossi helped them shaved seconds off their lap times while giving them valuable advice that would've taken them years to learn on their own, they're grateful!

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Rossi loves racing when he is winning when he isn't he threatens quitting. He enjoys his position in the sport but he does not love the sport like you say he does. Last year he hurt the sport he supsedly loves and its future tremendously. The fact he invited some young kids to his ranch pales in comparison which again he does for himself so he has other talented riders to race against and sharpen his skills.

Stoner is not mentally weak. Mentally weak men do not compete with severe injuries, mentally weak men do however crack under pressure much like Rossi showed last year and previously when faced with true adversity.

You're right about needing greats to show you're talent and proving how great or overrated your talent is. Unfortunately for Rossi when he has competed against other greats he has come off second best in amount of champships, race wins and total points.

moto vudu said:

Casey Stoner is mentally weak. For every "fan" that disliked him, dozens of others admired him. He only focused on the negative and didn't truly enjoy the sport enough to want to continue. Stoner actually needed Rossi in order to showcase his own talent. You can't be considered one of the greats if you're not competing against the greats. If Stoner was competing for his own personal goals, he wouldn't have cared about how others perceived him, but apparently he was motivated by external things that he had no control over. Media and fans not treating him right? :cry: NOBODY can make EVERYONE like them. If Stoner didn't learn that lesson as a kid, tough ....! Hopefully he has learned it by now.

Rossi loves the sport so the things he does for his own enjoyment also benefits the sport and others. When Rossi invites young riders to his ranch and to Misano for training, do you think those kids give a damn about what motivates him? If Rossi helped them shaved seconds off their lap times while giving them valuable advice that would've taken them years to learn on their own, they're grateful!

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Yes, as has been said Rossi showed how much he cares about the sport in the events of late season 2015.

p4p1 said:

Rossi loves racing when he is winning when he isn't he threatens quitting. He enjoys his position in the sport but he does not love the sport like you say he does. Last year he hurt the sport he supsedly loves and its future tremendously. The fact he invited some young kids to his ranch pales in comparison which again he does for himself so he has other talented riders to race against and sharpen his skills.

Stoner is not mentally weak. Mentally weak men do not compete with severe injuries, mentally weak men do however crack under pressure much like Rossi showed last year and previously when faced with true adversity.

You're right about needing greats to show you're talent and proving how great or overrated your talent is. Unfortunately for Rossi when he has competed against other greats he has come off second best in amount of champships, race wins and total points.

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If Rossi only loved racing when he wins, he would've quit a long time ago. The man truly has a passion for motorcycle racing. That said, why bother competing if you don't want to or think you can win? Only people content with being mediocre have that type of "just play for fun" mindset. The most accomplished athletes are all obsessed with winning. You think Michael Jordan cared about the people that called him an .......? Think Kobe cared about all the .... that was said about him? Valentino doesn't give a .... that you hate him! These athletes were/are motivated by their own desires not by the opinions of others... especially not the opinions of people that aren't even driven to attempt to be the best in the world at whatever they do in life.

Rossi didn't do anything to hurt the sport last year. If anything, he increased the amount of viewers and brought in even more fans. It's only a select few on this forum that already disliked him who exaggerate the events and the effects of Sepang 2015. Rossi lost his cool on track (for the first time and very likely the last time), fans of athletes of all sports are not usually turned off by that. If anything it makes the athlete even more human and fans relate to them even more.

There's different levels and types of mental weakness. Being able to compete through some injuries doesn't mean your skin is thick enough to deal with criticism. Stoner's weakness is that he cares too much what others think of him. That's probably why Stoner kept turning down Ducati's offers to ride this year, he fears what people will think if he does poorly.

Rossi has competed against the best his entire career and his record speaks for itself. Every win & loss he has accumulated was earned while competing with others that reached the very pinnacle of the sport.

If he wasn't GREAT, you wouldn't give a .... about him. You do not come here to type up posts full of negative emotions for Tito Rabat finishing last. You don't care enough about Tito to invest that much energy into him. A person has to be SUCCESSFUL to get the type of haters that come to this forum day in and day out to talk about Rossi. Haters also have to already live miserable lives because no one that's truly happy wants to constantly think or speak negatively about anything or anyone... that would be decreasing their level of happiness!