Yamaha: Why Lorenzo won't test twice for Ducati

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Stoner could ride the Duke and be competitive Rossi couldn't . If you only compare competitive years the picture is much different.



Not being funny buddy, but isn't that being over selective?
Head to head comparisons are just that, no "forgetting bits because they don't suit Valentino's glory".
Shall we omit all the races it's been wet since Assen 2012? Jorge's not competitive in the wet[emoji1]
Let's face it buddy, if next year VR is going great guns on the Yamaha and JL is having a mare on the Ducati, you're hardly likely to say it doesn't count, because JL isn't competitive on the Ducati.
Are you?[emoji1]
 
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Not being funny buddy, but isn't that being over selective?
Head to head comparisons are just that, no "forgetting bits because they don't suit Valentino's glory".
Shall we omit all the races it's been wet since Assen 2012? Jorge's not competitive in the wet[emoji1]
Let's face it buddy, if next year VR is going great guns on the Yamaha and JL is having a mare on the Ducati, you're hardly likely to say it doesn't count, because JL isn't competitive on the Ducati.
Are you?[emoji1]

If you only compare competitive years and take into consideration the riders weight and disregard tracks that the riders had an unfair advantage on and remove any bad weather race results the riders crashed out on ...... It's clear that Uccio wins!
 
Not being funny buddy, but isn't that being over selective?
Head to head comparisons are just that, no "forgetting bits because they don't suit Valentino's glory".
Shall we omit all the races it's been wet since Assen 2012? Jorge's not competitive in the wet[emoji1]
Let's face it buddy, if next year VR is going great guns on the Yamaha and JL is having a mare on the Ducati, you're hardly likely to say it doesn't count, because JL isn't competitive on the Ducati.
Are you?[emoji1]

No, I think daniboy has a point.

but ..... if you compare how many races Stoner won and rossi won, in all the races where Stoner won .... rossi looks not so good .... eh dani!!! :confused: :D:D
 
You mean like wins and actual titles [emoji1]
You're proving that you'll select any set of statistics that suit your agenda.
I've never said VR isn't a great racer, but I will say his dominant days were in his earlier years. Since Casey, Dani, Jorge and Marc have arrived, he's been beaten more than he's won.

Your chosen stats prove your agenda, my chosen ones prove mine, since 2014 VR has scored more points than JL despite winning less races, that means more often than not he has beaten JL in a race.
 
Your chosen stats prove your agenda, my chosen ones prove mine, since 2014 VR has scored more points than JL despite winning less races, that means more often than not he has beaten JL in a race.



I haven't chosen stats, nor do I have any agenda. I'm happy comparing all riders since Casey in a head to head with Valentino. If he comes out on top then fine, I won't kick and scream and take it personally [emoji1]
The point I'm making is it's unfair to choose arbitrary start points or forget certain times, in order to effectively falsify the statistics to suit any rider.
I've said many times, all the riders are amazing, having reached levels that we can only dream of. I just don't think Valentino has done anywhere near as well since Casey and the others showed up.
 
Your chosen stats prove your agenda, my chosen ones prove mine, since 2014 VR has scored more points than JL despite winning less races, that means more often than not he has beaten JL in a race.
Points do mean prizes, but in the case of Rossi, they don't. He may have more points but against this competition he is a nearly man. Lorenzo just has more outright speed.

And let's face it, IF he wins on the duc it only cements the argument that Lorenzo is more talented than Rossi, as was stoner.
 
Points do mean prizes, but in the case of Rossi, they don't. He may have more points but against this competition he is a nearly man. Lorenzo just has more outright speed.

And let's face it, IF he wins on the duc it only cements the argument that Lorenzo is more talented than Rossi, as was stoner.

If Lorenzo somehow rides & wins on the 2011 - 2012 Duc, it cements he is better at Rossi on that bike. Winning on the GP17 does not compare to the POS that Rossi was riding.
 
If Lorenzo somehow rides & wins on the 2011 - 2012 Duc, it cements he is better at Rossi on that bike. Winning on the GP17 does not compare to the POS that Rossi was riding.

You're right the version Rossi rode didn't need a track with 3 straights and 9 corners to win as Stoner proved the year before.
 
You're right the version Rossi rode didn't need a track with 3 straights and 9 corners to win as Stoner proved the year before.

Stoner had way more experience on the bike than Rossi and even Stoner's wins were decreasing before he jumped ship to HRC.

Still no comparison between the 2011 - 2012 Duc to the GP17.
 
If Lorenzo somehow rides & wins on the 2011 - 2012 Duc, it cements he is better at Rossi on that bike. Winning on the GP17 does not compare to the POS that Rossi was riding.
Haha .......... Stoner won 3 races? In 2010 on that bike.

The GP16 has won one race. Therefore In 2011 Rossi inherited a better bike
 
Haha .......... Stoner won 3 races? In 2010 on that bike.

The GP16 has won one race. Therefore In 2011 Rossi inherited a better bike

:unsure: You're confused.

Stoner "The Ducati Master" was having less and less success with Ducati all the way through to his last year (2010). Rossi having no experience with the bike couldn't get up to speed on it in the two years he was there. It is not likely anyone would have had much (if any) success on the 2011 - 2012 Duc. Again, if Stoner knew the bike the best and even he struggled with it - it was highly unlikely for anyone to do better until Ducati made major changes to their team & bike (they've now done just that).

The GP16 also has nothing to do with the 2011 - 2012 Duc. You're incredibility foolish if you think GP bikes spanning multiple years are all identical bikes with the same performance capabilities.


:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
20112bducati2bdesmosedici2bgp112bfirst2blook.jpg

2016-Ducati-MotoGP-Team-8.jpg
 
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:unsure: You're confused.

Stoner "The Ducati Master" was having less and less success with Ducati all the way through to his last year (2010). Rossi having no experience with the bike couldn't get up to speed on it in the two years he was there. It is not likely anyone would have had much (if any) success on the 2011 - 2012 Duc. Again, if Stoner knew the bike the best and even he struggled with it - it was highly unlikely for anyone to do better until Ducati made major changes to their team & bike (they've now done just that).

The GP16 also has nothing to do with the 2011 - 2012 Duc. You're incredibility foolish if you think GP bikes spanning multiple years are all identical bikes with the same performance capabilities.


:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
20112bducati2bdesmosedici2bgp112bfirst2blook.jpg

2016-Ducati-MotoGP-Team-8.jpg
Not say their identical. I'm saying stoner won 3 races in 2010. The supposed goat rode the same or very similar bike in 2011 / 12 with NO Wins.

The GP16 has one win. Dovi is very experienced on it. Therefore I would say if Lorenzo wins on the duc he will win on a bike that has less wins than the 2010 bike. Therefore he is a better rider than Rossi.

Rossi was utter .... on the duc. He was found out. Your the fool for thinking it was the bike
 
In the two years Rossi was at Ducati, he had more or less a totally new bike built to his specifications and still failed to do anything with it.
Casey jumped on a bike he'd never ridden before in 2007 and took the title. Not bad eh? [emoji1]
 
Not say their identical. I'm saying stoner won 3 races in 2010. The supposed goat rode the same or very similar bike in 2011 / 12 with NO Wins.

The GP16 has one win. Dovi is very experienced on it. Therefore I would say if Lorenzo wins on the duc he will win on a bike that has less wins than the 2010 bike. Therefore he is a better rider than Rossi.

Rossi was utter .... on the duc. He was found out. Your the fool for thinking it was the bike

I would add that Nicky Hayden's results stayed more or less the same on the GP10 to the GP11.
 
Not say their identical. I'm saying stoner won 3 races in 2010. The supposed goat rode the same or very similar bike in 2011 / 12 with NO Wins.

I would expect Stoner to have a few wins in 2010 since he knew the bike best. Even Stoner was vocal about the bike issues.

The GP16 has one win. Dovi is very experienced on it. Therefore I would say if Lorenzo wins on the duc he will win on a bike that has less wins than the 2010 bike. Therefore he is a better rider than Rossi.

You're comparing the 2010 bike to the GP16, that's just ....... dumb and you know it.

Rossi was utter .... on the duc. He was found out. Your the fool for thinking it was the bike

You're in here comparing the GP16 to the 2011 - 2012 Duc... you cannot call anyone a fool. The bike WAS utter .... otherwise Stoner's wins wouldn't have been declining.
 
In the two years Rossi was at Ducati, he had more or less a totally new bike built to his specifications and still failed to do anything with it.
Casey jumped on a bike he'd never ridden before in 2007 and took the title. Not bad eh? [emoji1]

Ducati wasn't (and probably still isn't) building bikes to any rider's specifications. They were building bikes to the engineer's specifications and expected the riders to get the most out if it.
 
I would expect Stoner to have a few wins in 2010 since he knew the bike best. Even Stoner was vocal about the bike issues.



You're comparing the 2010 bike to the GP16, that's just ....... dumb and you know it.



You're in here comparing the GP16 to the 2011 - 2012 Duc... you cannot call anyone a fool. The bike WAS utter .... otherwise Stoner's wins wouldn't have been declining.
Sheep logic. Rossi was .... on duc, bikes fault. Stoner had more experience. He didn't in 2007.

GP 16 one win. GP 10 three win. Rossi inherited better bike. Rossi fan can't compute
 
You argue your case better than many, but I fear you confuse your conspiracy theories and conspiracy theorists. The underlying problem anyway for any Rossi supporter accusing anyone on this obscure Internet forum of propounding conspiracy theories is that Rossi has spent the last year alleging a rather major conspiracy to the whole world, and if the other thread is to be believed it took the great MotoGP mind and observational skills of Uccio to determine that MM nefariously won the PI 2015 race to screw Rossi, which makes the whole thing even less credible, something I would not have considered possible before Uccio spoke.

I thought myself Rossi was far and away the best candidate for the Yamaha seat in 2013; next in line was probably Espargaro.

Bridgestone as far as I know didn't ever design a tyre purely for Jorge, but they certainly produced a tyre which happened to uniquely suit him. The question was the availability of that tyre either in general or in the allocation for particular rounds. Michelin had a tyre at the start of the year which also quite suited him which is no longer available, for safety reasons because it tended to explode when run on Ducatis; to my knowledge no otherwise similar non-exploding replacement has appeared.

If I were Jorge I would certainly think the Yamaha team had backed Rossi's version of events last year, and I would be surprised if he had a view dissimilar to mine, being that version of events is preposterous and an insult to him particularly given the iron will, great composure under immense pressure and superior riding (certainly superior to Rossi's) in the late season races to win a 3rd championship for Yamaha. Jorge has apparently sinned more by his disapproval of Rossi's illegal actions at Sepang, which involved Rossi gaining a points advantage over Jorge by cheating, than Rossi did by his illegal take-out of MM. If you don't think Yamaha's attitude to him was influential in his decision to leave, you are kidding yourself.

I see no evidence Jorge didn't get equal treatment this year, and tend to think Rossi would have got equal treatment in 2011 had he stayed. Equal treatment is not what Rossi wanted or thought was his due then, however, and the same may well apply to Lorenzo now of course. Yamaha did seem to make Rossi's re-signing their priority this year, and there is certainly ample precedent for both Yamaha factory riders not getting equal treatment, cf Rossi's team-mates prior to Jorge, Jorge himself in 2008 given Rossi had Bridgestones, and Ben Spies.
Not really sure how Rossi's conspiracies about 2015 tie into this debate.

However the idea that Michelin designed a Rossi-specific tyre does relate to the issue of Lorenzo-specific tyres that you say were developed by Bridgestone. A theory that, as it happens, I was hearing for the very first time.

The question is - is there any real evidence that the tyre which happened to be exceptionally well suited to Lorenzo (arguably like the current Michelins are for Marquez) was developed by Bridgestone with that express purpose?

To return to the issue of 'mistreatment' by Yamaha -

1. It favoured its #1 rider over the #2 (eg. 2008... 2013, 2014). That is understandable.

2. It gave its riders equal status when their performance was comparable.

3. It offered contracts to Rossi & Lorenzo at the same time in 2016.

4. Treated Lorenzo professionally throughout his outgoing season.

5. Offered Lorenzo the same testing privileges as extended to its other outgoing riders, Smith & Espargaro.


With respect to the Sepang debacle, Yamaha backed its rider against a Honda rider. (And would presumably have done the same if it had involved another Yamaha rider.) It also took no sides in the Rossi-Lorenzo feud.
 
Haha .......... Stoner won 3 races? In 2010 on that bike.

The GP16 has won one race. Therefore In 2011 Rossi inherited a better bike

I do think the bike Lorenzo will get is a little better than the bike Rossi rode, not by miles though.

When you take Casey's really good and Crutchlow's really poor performances out of the equation, the bike seems to be pretty similar and if anything has slightly improved.

Casey GP10 - 3 wins 9 podiums 225 points 4th
Hayden GP10 - 1 podiums 163 points 7th
Rossi GP11 - 1 podiums 139 points 7th
Hayden GP11 - 1 podiums 132 points 8th

Dovi GP14 - 2 podiums 187 points 5th
Crutchlow GP14 - 1 podium 74 points 13th
Iannone GP15 - 3 podium 188 points 5th
Dovi GP15 - 5 podium 162 points 7th

Dovi GP16 - 3 podiums 124 points 6th
Iannone GP16 - 1 win 3 podiums 96 points 9th *injured
__________________

Dovi's results would have been a lot better this year he was crashed out two of the races.
 
With respect to the Sepang debacle, Yamaha backed its rider against a Honda rider. (And would presumably have done the same if it had involved another Yamaha rider.) It also took no sides in the Rossi-Lorenzo feud.

Maybe not officially but they did albeit somewhat subtly pick sides by supporting Rossi with regards to the incident and penalty (albeit that Jarvis did at one time call it fair then change the tune) and not supporting Lorenzo against the allegations that were made regarding conspiracies etc.

At no time did Yamaha show public support for Lorenzo after the allegations of conspiracy were raised and the media storm took off and nor was there any suggestions of condemnation or softening of the same conspiracy



Actually JK, a genuine question for you.

Have you ever managed a staff member out of a business?

I have, and publically at least you ensure that you show equal treatment between that staff member and all others in similar positions but it is what you do and how you do things (all perfectly legally) that can be used to 'persuade' someone to leave by providing a seemingly non-ideal workplace. No proof, but part of me suspects this as the Yamaha approach (and there is no illegalities in that) but also part of me believes that Lorenzo wants to prove to Yamaha, Furusawa (who is a Rossi fan afterall), Rossi, Jarvis and above all, himself that he is above a one bike wonder
 
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