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Vilifications continue: Max, Sete, Casey & Jorge

michaelm said:
There was a fair amount of "it was the bike not stoner" from people of your ilk, nuthuggers or not, prior to much if any "it was stoner not the bike". This is entirely different of course, since the first is your opinion and hence apparently by definition correct.
Click to expand...



Honestly speaking bike>stoner or stoner>bike i couldnt give a .........how many times do i have to say this? its 4 years ago and whatever was said then isnt really important to what i am debating now...i wasnt even registered then thank god.



Is this an aussie forum? i never bothered to check its country of origin but its beyond a joke the amount if abolute uneccesary crap you get for making even fair comments if they involve stoner.....good job i am not knocking him at every turn like barry does with rossi lol.....in fact if he supported rossi the way he clearly does stoner he would be driven off the boards like the blatant buffalo bill he is.



I will seriously laugh my ... of if i find out it is an aussie site.
 
Jumkie said:
You would quote something with a clear "citation needed". Do your homework, go find it.



All your arguments are flawed and not really worth the time to rehash a year's worth of debunking every point you've made.



Once you can explain how the fastest bike regularly were in the lowest finishing order and on well documented occasions the slowest bike won the race, then you may never understand a simple elementary truth about motorcycle roadracing.
Click to expand...





Tell you what just answer the question, it is so very simple.....



What would substantial horsepower over the yam and honda(accepted by haters like you or not) and a better tyre package do for rossi's 7th place.....



If you say nothing i say you are absoolutely full of .....



Nuff siad.
 
Rob said:
Tell you what just answer the question, it is so very simple.....
Click to expand...



LINK





What would substantial horsepower over the yam and honda(accepted by haters like you or not) and a better tyre package do for rossi's 7th place.....



If you say nothing i say you are absoolutely full of .....



Nuff siad.
Click to expand...



I enjoy making idiots like you look stupid. But a part of me always thinks, whats the point of doing that if you don't see just how stupid you are? To answer your question, at Qatar, probably nothing. If you are still stuck on 07, Rossi on the best handling bike on Michelins battled with Stoner in the last laps.



Regarding fast bikes, check this out since you are so fixated on this idea:



At the Qatar 2011 Event:



The fastest bike of the event was Hector Barbara. 330.2 kph, he came next to LAST.

The 3rd fastest bike was Karl Abraham. 326.2 kph, he came in LAST.

Casey Stoner was the 7th fastest bike, 325.7 kph, and was close to the slowest Honda, he WON the race.

The difference between Valentino Rossi's bike and Stoner's was 325.7-324.1=1.6 khp. Stoner WON and Rossi, 7th.

The Yamaha riders who keep screaming they need more power, Spies was the 4th fastest.

While Lorenzo was the 13th fastest (slower than Rossi) but came RUNNER UP.

Lorenzo and Rossi are a good point of comparison too, since they were on the factory Yamahas and seem rather matched:

Lorenzo 322.2kph, Rossi 325.7kph, that's a difference of 3.5kph. That means Lorenzo bike was SLOWER than twice the difference between Stoner and Rossi, yet Lorenzo whipped Rossi.





Do you still want to hold your hat on the speed thing?



Anybody else want to argue the debunked idea that a faster bike means ....???
 
Rob said:
Honestly speaking bike>stoner or stoner>bike i couldnt give a .........how many times do i have to say this? its 4 years ago and whatever was said then isnt really important to what i am debating now...i wasnt even registered then thank god.



Is this an aussie forum? i never bothered to check its country of origin but its beyond a joke the amount if abolute uneccesary crap you get for making even fair comments if they involve stoner.....good job i am not knocking him at every turn like barry does with rossi lol.....in fact if he supported rossi the way he clearly does stoner he would be driven off the boards like the blatant buffalo bill he is.



I will seriously laugh my ... of if i find out it is an aussie site.
Click to expand...

2007 is ancient history, but since you were the one who brought it up I don't see that you have much to complain about.



This is an english site, or at least based in england and run by an englishman, who I think is a pretty major rossi fan. It is a labour of love which he basically does as a public service for which we should all be thankful, and he seems to strike a nice balance between excessive moderation and anarchy.



Jumkie is a californian hayden fan engaging in payback for the belittling of nicky's world championship by rossi fans, and I don't think any other stoner fans, aussie or not, would agree with barry that stoner is an all-time great at this stage, let alone that he is or will ever be the GOAT, and I think few on the site would disagree that rossi is the GOAT. This still leaves some room for stoner to be fairly good, and for his stature to advance further if he continues this season as he has started it.
 
Jumkie said:
LINK









I enjoy making idiots like you look stupid. But a part of me always thinks, whats the point of doing that if you don't see just how stupid you are? To answer your question, at Qatar, probably nothing. If you are still stuck on 07, Rossi on the best handling bike on Michelins battled with Stoner in the last laps.



Regarding fast bikes, check this out since you are so fixated on this idea:



At the Qatar 2011 Event:



The fastest bike of the event was Hector Barbara. 330.2 kph, he came next to LAST.

The 3rd fastest bike was Karl Abraham. 326.2 kph, he came in LAST.

Casey Stoner was the 7th fastest bike, 325.7 kph, and was close to the slowest Honda, he WON the race.

The difference between Valentino Rossi's bike and Stoner's was 325.7-324.1=1.6 khp. Stoner WON and Rossi, 7th.

The Yamaha riders who keep screaming they need more power, Spies was the 4th fastest.

While Lorenzo was the 13th fastest (slower than Rossi) but came RUNNER UP.

Lorenzo and Rossi are a good point of comparison too, since they were on the factory Yamahas and seem rather matched:

Lorenzo 322.2kph, Rossi 325.7kph, that's a difference of 3.5kph. That means Lorenzo bike was SLOWER than twice the difference between Stoner and Rossi, yet Lorenzo whipped Rossi.





Do you still want to hold your hat on the speed thing?



Anybody else want to argue the debunked idea that a faster bike means ....???
Click to expand...



There is so much more to a powerful engine than simply top speed charts.....but then you keep clinging to them.



I asked the question anyway jumkie and you answered and basically copped out...



My question again:



A crap handling bike is still more likely to win with more power and grip, than without.



Your answer:



Absolutely WRONG!



This makes it pointless arguing because even faced with such an obvious answer you copp out with a bs reply. The same kind of dog handling bike is 100% more likely to do better with more power and grip, than without this benefit. To suggest otherwise is basically ridiculous....thats the only word for it.



No matter how you play it down with top speed charts the fact remains that BHP makes for a fast bike, and fast bikes help win races.
 
michaelm said:
2007 is ancient history, but since you were the one who brought it up I don't see that you have much to complain about.



This is an english site, or at least based in england and run by an englishman, who I think is a pretty major rossi fan. It is a labour of love which he basically does as a public service for which we should all should be thankful, and he seems to strike a nice balance between excessive moderation and anarchy.



Jumkie is a californian hayden fan engaging in payback for the belittling of nicky's world championship by rossi fans, and I don't think any other stoner fans, aussie or not, would agree with barry that stoner is an all-time great at this stage, let alone that he is or will ever be the GOAT, and I think few on the site would disagree that rossi is the GOAT. This still leaves some room for stoner to be fairly good, and for his stature to advance further if he continues this season as he has started it.
Click to expand...



Yes i appreciate that, but the ONLY reason i bought it up is because it was being unfairly and excessively used to compare to this season.



Then the inevitable "it was all stoner" and "you boppers cant let it drop"....



Pffffff.
 
Rob said:
There is so much more to a powerful engine than simply top speed charts.....but then you keep clinging to them.



I asked the question anyway jumkie and you answered and basically copped out...



My question again:



A crap handling bike is still more likely to win with more power and grip, than without.



Your answer:



Absolutely WRONG!



This makes it pointless arguing because even faced with such an obvious answer you copp out with a bs reply. The same kind of dog handling bike is 100% more likely to do better with more power and grip, than without this benefit. To suggest otherwise is basically ridiculous....thats the only word for it.



No matter how you play it down with top speed charts the fact remains that BHP makes for a fast bike, and a fast bikes help win races.
Click to expand...

aprilia cube
 
michaelm said:
aprilia cube
Click to expand...



Ok 2 aprilia cubes with same dog handling....one with 100bhp and one with 120bhp.



Which one laps quicker.



You can bs and say it would depend on this or that, but the FACT is that it will help and certainly not hinder.
 
Rob said:
Ok 2 aprilia cubes with same dog handling....one with 100bhp and one with 120bhp.



Which one laps quicker.



You can bs and say it would depend on this or that, but the FACT is that it will help and certainly not hinder.
Click to expand...

The facts are that the aprilia cube with a universally acknowledged and large power and straight line speed advantage did not win a race, let alone a championship. Something to do with the bike being unrideable I believe, much like the ducati 800 in most if not all of its iterations has been for riders other than stoner.



The straight line speed thing is obviously an advantage in that it is easy to pass on the straights if you are in range, but all indications are that getting the thing through the corners rapidly enough to be in range rather than being achieved by electronic means with little or no input from the rider as was widely opined by those of your ilk at the time was more than a little difficult.



In any case if stoner did have an advantage in 2007 and proves to have an advantage in 2011 it is just tough luck for valentino and his fans; this has always been part of the game in gp racing and has worked to valentino's benefit at times in the past as has been pointed out by others.
 
Rob said:
There is so much more to a powerful engine than simply top speed charts.....but then you keep clinging to them.



I asked the question anyway jumkie and you answered and basically copped out...



My question again:



A crap handling bike is still more likely to win with more power and grip, than without.



Your answer:



Absolutely WRONG!



This makes it pointless arguing because even faced with such an obvious answer you copp out with a bs reply. The same kind of dog handling bike is 100% more likely to do better with more power and grip, than without this benefit. To suggest otherwise is basically ridiculous....thats the only word for it.



No matter how you play it down with top speed charts the fact remains that BHP makes for a fast bike, and fast bikes help win races.
Click to expand...

Ok, i give up. U r worthless!
 
Just came in here to laugh at the term "Stoner Boners"
<
 
Rob said:
Ok 2 aprilia cubes with same dog handling....one with 100bhp and one with 120bhp.



Which one laps quicker.



You can bs and say it would depend on this or that, but the FACT is that it will help and certainly not hinder.
Click to expand...





The one with the better rider. End of story.
 
michaelm said:
In any case if stoner did have an advantage in 2007 and proves to have an advantage in 2011 it is just tough luck for valentino and his fans; this has always been part of the game in gp racing and has worked to valentino's benefit at times in the past as has been pointed out by others.
Click to expand...



I really dont have an issue with any advantage stoner HAD or HAS......many of my favourite riders won championships on the best bikes. Its purely an example of a rather key difference, 2 riders on the same/similar bike on their debut season......but one having more power over his rivals than the other that is all.



michaelm said:
The facts are that the aprilia cube with a universally acknowledged and large power and straight line speed advantage did not win a race, let alone a championship. Something to do with the bike being unrideable I believe, much like the ducati 800 in most if not all of its iterations has been for riders other than stoner.



The straight line speed thing is obviously an advantage in that it is easy to pass on the straights if you are in range, but all indications are that getting the thing through the corners rapidly enough to be in range rather than being achieved by electronic means with little or no input from the rider as was widely opined by those of your ilk at the time was more than a little difficult.
Click to expand...



OK for the sake of getting a straight answer then...the samer rider, same 2 bikes, one with more horsepower than the other.



Which laps quicker?



Cannot ask the question any simpler.
 
Rob said:
I really dont have an issue with any advantage stoner HAD or HAS......many of my favourite riders won championships on the best bikes. Its purely an example of a rather key difference, 2 riders on the same/similar bike on their debut season......but one having more power over his rivals than the other that is all.







OK for the sake of getting a straight answer then...the samer rider, same 2 bikes, one with more horsepower than the other.



Which laps quicker?



Cannot ask the question any simpler.
Click to expand...





it doesn't mean .... don't you get it?do you ride yourself??i guess not because every bloody teenager that has a mofa knows that hp advantage means .... of the thing won't handle right.



why do you bother to post the same stuff again and again how horsepower make a difference and then you're ignorant and arrogant enough to assume people arent able or too dumb to answer your stupid questions.



let me ask you a question instead : do you think horsepower made the difference yes or no? if so why couldnt rossi hold off spies and humiliate lorenzo ?
 
I won't join into the slanging match apart from the say that while a more powerful engine DOES help the speed of any racing machine. The amount of power it produces is totally and 100% irrelevant if that power cannot be effectively trnasferred to the tarmac. I remember reading about Nigel Mansell's early days at Lotus F1 and one weekend he was given the option of a crap chassis and good engine, or a good chassis and crap engine. He chose the latter for the reasons cited above.



Apart from drag racing, the myth that more power means more speed isn't really true. Ask any racing engineer and they'll tell you that far more gains in speed can be made from the brakes and chassis than any amount of engine development. A few years ago I gained about 0.4s a lap in my Superkart when I had about 3hp added to the engine. I fitted better brakes and gained nearer 1.4s.



Long story short, more power is always better but only if you have the brakes and handling to exploit it.
 

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