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Vilifications continue: Max, Sete, Casey & Jorge

1, Clearly it did turn....well enough to win 10 races in that year. The ONLY thing that we can say is similar about the ducati then and now is that it isnt an easy ride. Like it or lump it if either rossi or hayden could choose to have the advantages of 20bhp/better tyres then they would, and it would most definitely benefit both riders.......A crap handling bike is still more likely to win with more power and grip, than without afterall.



2, Oh no because nobody ever tested for bhp on machinery before....its impossible!!!



The figure i mention is quoted for all to see on a popular site:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ducati_Desmosedici#GP7



Although even without documented reports, only an absolute stoner nuthugging extraordinaire would deny

the duc being absolutely the quikest bike that year.



3, Thats good....finally a fair 2010 comparison, no they havent changed really, but this is another debate. My point is really not wether rossi is quicker/slower than stoner on the duc in 2010....but rather that when we do compare the two, then it should be using that season as a main point of comparison, instead of a totally unfair and unrealistic 2007 comparison. The bike didnt have the speed or tyre factors of 2007 last year......so these kind of things are fair points. To actually aswer you last point, yes stoner was quick in parts last year but utterly average in others, and as we are only one race in so far this year who knows how it will pan out over the whole season.



1. The Duc turned like ..... That's why only Stoner whose bike had lower top speed than the sattelite Ducs was capable of being competitive on it.

Everyone else who rode the Duc was in the mid-pack to back. That's indisputable.



2. It was noted in Motosprint[citation needed] that as of the Le Mans Grand Prix the GP7 had a 20 hp (15 kW) advantage over Honda and Yamaha MotoGP bikes.



Above quote from Wikipedia
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- was entered there by some racing fan like you or me and you will note - contains no corroborative evidence. It's hearsay; a guestimate possibly from a journalist. Even the best journalists don't get invited to witness factory bikes being run on the dyno.

from Motosprint. Means nothing.
 
Honestly speaking bike>stoner or stoner>bike i couldnt give a .........how many times do i have to say this? its 4 years ago and whatever was said then isnt really important to what i am debating now...i wasnt even registered then thank god.



Is this an aussie forum? i never bothered to check its country of origin but its beyond a joke the amount if abolute uneccesary crap you get for making even fair comments if they involve stoner.....good job i am not knocking him at every turn like barry does with rossi lol.....in fact if he supported rossi the way he clearly does stoner he would be driven off the boards like the blatant buffalo bill he is.



I will seriously laugh my ... of if i find out it is an aussie site.



Never heard the expression "Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it"?



Essentially - what you're saying is: I wasn't around in 2007 so that gives me license to ignore the facts.



Oh BTW - most of the folks here who take time to debate your bad-mouthing of Stoner are Americans.

Maybe you'd be happier dialoging with folks on IADOREROSSi.com or PLEASELETMEBLOWROSSI.NET

or ROSSIISTHEANNOINtEDONE.org
 
LINK









I enjoy making idiots like you look stupid. But a part of me always thinks, whats the point of doing that if you don't see just how stupid you are? To answer your question, at Qatar, probably nothing. If you are still stuck on 07, Rossi on the best handling bike on Michelins battled with Stoner in the last laps.



Regarding fast bikes, check this out since you are so fixated on this idea:



At the Qatar 2011 Event:



The fastest bike of the event was Hector Barbara. 330.2 kph, he came next to LAST.

The 3rd fastest bike was Karl Abraham. 326.2 kph, he came in LAST.

Casey Stoner was the 7th fastest bike, 325.7 kph, and was close to the slowest Honda, he WON the race.

The difference between Valentino Rossi's bike and Stoner's was 325.7-324.1=1.6 khp. Stoner WON and Rossi, 7th.

The Yamaha riders who keep screaming they need more power, Spies was the 4th fastest.

While Lorenzo was the 13th fastest (slower than Rossi) but came RUNNER UP.

Lorenzo and Rossi are a good point of comparison too, since they were on the factory Yamahas and seem rather matched:

Lorenzo 322.2kph, Rossi 325.7kph, that's a difference of 3.5kph. That means Lorenzo bike was SLOWER than twice the difference between Stoner and Rossi, yet Lorenzo whipped Rossi.





Do you still want to hold your hat on the speed thing?



Anybody else want to argue the debunked idea that a faster bike means ....???



In a nutshell Rob - what Jumkie (above) and the rest are trying to impress on you is the probably the THE most essential key to understanding what in the 800 era makes a GP bike competitive; and you seem to be the only one here who doesn't acknowledge it. It's all about corner speed. If the bike

turns badly into the corner, and everyone who's ridden it will attest that it's so (most voluably Rossi) - corner speed is inadequate making for

poor lap times. No doubt you will come up with some uncorrborated explanation why you think this is not true - but you and only you

will be bold-faced enough to claim to believe it - because you're too invested in trying to convince people who know better - than you

are in acknowleding reality.
 
don't bother kesh, its not about corner speed or any other sensible argument its aaaaaall about horsepower.which is why the suzuki was always as good as the yamaha or even better lol



all this talk about the ducati is meaningless, according to some folks it was the best bike ever but now all of the sudden when rossi rides it it isn't anymore.



lets talk about lorenzo instead . i want to hear "if rossi hadn't broken his leg blabla" one more time
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In a nutshell Rob - what Jumkie (above) and the rest are trying to impress on you is the probably the THE most essential key to understanding what in the 800 era

makes a GP bike competitive; and you seem to be the only one here who doesn't acknowledge it. It's all about corner speed. If the bike

turns badly into the corner and everyone who's ridden it will attest (and most voluably Rossi) - corner speed is inadequate making for

poor lap times. No doubt you will come up with some uncorrborated explanation why you think this is not true - but you and only you

will be bold-faced enough to claim to believe it - because you're too invested in trying to convince people who know better - than you

are in acknowleding reality.

If you listen to the bops version of history, Stoners 07 bike was so fast, his accomplishments for that year dont count. In fact, at Qatar race 07, Stoners bike was a whole 3mph faster than the next fastest non Ducati. The Ducs were undoubtedly fast, but it wasnt as big an advantage as some revisionist would lead you to believe. And like someone said, Stoners bike was not even the fastest Ducati. No one ever talks about the possibility of a superior aero package on the Ducati, maybe it just drafted better than the other bikes, thats when the speed difference was so apparent. Blowing by bikes on the straights was its forte, how much of that was possibly better aero. Check the other speed tracks, China, Mugello, you will find that the numbers are similar there as well.
 
Never heard the expression "Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it"?



Essentially - what you're saying is: I wasn't around in 2007 so that gives me license to ignore the facts.



Oh BTW - most of the folks here who take time to debate your bad-mouthing of Stoner are Americans.

Maybe you'd be happier dialoging with folks on IADOREROSSi.com or PLEASELETMEBLOWROSSI.NET

or ROSSIISTHEANNOINtEDONE.org





Firstly lol, yeah of course i have heard the saying, i play call of duty........
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Secondly that 2007 comment is just utter dog feaces, and actually not worthy of a proper response.



Third if i was guessing at stoners advantage in 2007 it would be more than 20 horses, although my earlier point is proven by the way you refer to it as "bad mouthing of stoner"......for all your boring bravado, you still cant actually take on a fair comment for what it is, instead going defensive and in the end the truth shines through.



"Stop picking on stoner" boohoo.....if you could see past your nose maybe youd get the point, which is not only a small point, but also rather harmless.



Pffff pathetic.
 
In a nutshell Rob - what Jumkie (above) and the rest are trying to impress on you is the probably the THE most essential key to understanding what in the 800 era makes a GP bike competitive; and you seem to be the only one here who doesn't acknowledge it.



Of course i acknowledge it.......when have i said cornering doesnt matter?



People just wont answer the simplest question if it involves having to take down their stoner defences.



What i am saying is rossi coming in 7th without the(even if you see them as small) advantages of 2007, means things are not looking as grim as a lot of the nuthuggers have been making out.



2011 Duc - Shoulder + bhp advantage + 2007 bridgestone effect = a podium at the very least in qatar.



Its not rocket science at alll....and yes i concur that cornering is the most important thing in motogp.



But to pretend like raw power just doesnt matter at all is absurd, because as casey himself proved.......in conjuction they make for a very fast rider.



This forum is just beyond belief at times.
 
It is an ugly side of the sport and Rossi certainly does seem to encourage it.



Despite my thread aiming to concentrate on Rossis riding talent, you have correctly exposed the dark side of Rossifanaticism.

I always thought true racing fans were remarkably silent on Rossis treatment to Gibernau in years past. It went well beyond the normal limits of gamesmanship.



Now, it would seem that Rossi's frustration with the Ducati , has manifested itself with a return to the worst side of Rossi,s personality. I do not know of any other top level gp rider to partake in such orchestrated attacks on his opponents. I would like anybody to correct me on this....................



Tainted, tarnished.............you name it, you,re seeing it all unravel right before your eyes.
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All things aside:

Rossi tore Gibernau a new one!

This particular bit of history was decided on the track...
 
Firstly lol, yeah of course i have heard the saying, i play call of duty........
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Secondly that 2007 comment is just utter dog feaces, and actually not worthy of a proper response.



Third if i was guessing at stoners advantage in 2007 it would be more than 20 horses, although my earlier point is proven by the way you refer to it as "bad mouthing of stoner"......for all your boring bravado, you still cant actually take on a fair comment for what it is, instead going defensive and in the end the truth shines through.



"Stop picking on stoner" boohoo.....if you could see past your nose maybe youd get the point, which is not only a small point, but also rather harmless.



Pffff pathetic.



Lost sight of this thread. 20HP??? Really? I mean, even for an uneducated guess, that's stratospherically silly.



Me defensive? Not really. The other way around I would say.



Picking on Stoner? Not a concern of mine. It's the complete lack of objectivity that you and Talpa display

in your critiques of Stoner. You guys constantly make baseless accusations in lieu of critical observations.

You, Talpa and Nino are the "defensive" ones in this equation. That much is evident in how abusive and

sneery and insulting all your posts are. You three are the triumverate of angry defensive Rossi-fans.

All three of you are angry because you know deep down inside that you bring little to the table

other than hearsay, sophmoric insults and pettifogging. The three of you are constantly imagining

slights to yourselves and as Rossi moves further and further along into the season without any

encouraging results - you're all becoming (Unlike your fearless leader) increasingly despondent

and paranoid.
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Of course i acknowledge it.......when have i said cornering doesnt matter?



People just wont answer the simplest question if it involves having to take down their stoner defences.



What i am saying is rossi coming in 7th without the(even if you see them as small) advantages of 2007, means things are not looking as grim as a lot of the nuthuggers have been making out.



2011 Duc - Shoulder + bhp advantage + 2007 bridgestone effect = a podium at the very least in qatar.



Its not rocket science at alll....and yes i concur that cornering is the most important thing in motogp.



But to pretend like raw power just doesnt matter at all is absurd, because as casey himself proved.......in conjuction they make for a very fast rider.



This forum is just beyond belief at times.

I know I am flogging a dead horse, but at the time of the debate I was aware that rossi had said during testing ( I think post sepang 1) that the ducati had more than adequate power. He has now been directly quoted as saying that the power delivery/throttle response is a significant problem with the bike, contributing to the poor turning, and that this was due to ducati's focus on ultimate performance; see kropotkin's jerez day 1 wrap on motomatters.
 
I know I am flogging a dead horse, but at the time of the debate I was aware that rossi had said during testing ( I think post sepang 1) that the ducati had more than adequate power. He has now been directly quoted as saying that the power delivery/throttle response is a significant problem with the bike, contributing to the poor turning, and that this was due to ducati's focus on ultimate performance; see kropotkin's jerez day 1 wrap on motomatters.

Rossi looking for a rule change, who wudda thunk it. After what, 11 years in the series, now all of a sudden his weight is a disadvantage. Lets say next year they do come up with a rider-bike weight rule. Do the small guys just put on some weight,or would it be more advantageous to have the ballast that you could move around.Im thinking weights. If that became an advantage, then the heavier guys would crash diet so they could get the weights.If Pedrosa chose to put on weight, he would look like Jumkie GP racer, if Rossi decided to lose weight, he would look more like a heroin addicted runway model than he already does
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