Valencia Tests.

povol said:

It would be very interesting to see injury statistics comparing the 500's to the 800's.. The 500's were evil, but if you stayed within bounds, they were semi predictable. The 800's, with all the gadgetry, you never know when it might short circuit and throw you to the moon.Just off the top of my head, , Rossi Pedrosa, Depuniet,, , Melandri, Capirossi,Aoyama, and who knows who else have missed a race or races this year. Going back, Hopper, Lorenzo, add name as you think of them. The 800 has been a very dangerous machine, considering it was devised under the guise of safety.

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Don't know about injuries but i have found this list of total crashes per weekend. Over all classes.



Estoril 2010 – 128

Donington Park 2007 – 109

Le Mans 2009 – 96

Donington Park 2005 – 93

Estoril 2002 – 90

Valencia 2008 – 83

Phillip Island 2008 – 83

Donington Park 2008 – 75

Suzuka 2002 - 75

Le Mans 2003 - 72



I think like you said the 500cc's could really bite, but many knew the limits of them. Guys like McCoy who where over the limit most of the time did feel it. The 800's have a very high limit, but it's hard to pinpoint that limit. But once you go over that limit you'r really screwed.

That's the way i see it.

Mental Anarchist said:

I understand that you are the forum lunatic but that does not excuse you from being completely hypocritical.



To start with Carmelo recently commented on Stoners lack of TC. As mentioned by another poster above several respected commentators have commented on it. An observation of even the most recent races would have highlighted it so the fact that you are still of the ignorant opinion that Stoner uses a heap of traction control is just straight out embarrassing for you.



Lets get back to the hypocrisy of your quoted comment above. It seems that Stoners comments on his bike or MotoGP bikes in general are not to be believed or used as evidence but yet you complain that Rossi has been gagged and therefore you can't use his lack of comments in your defence.



I for one would tend to put more weight on a Stoner comment about his bike then just about anyone on the grid for 2 reasons: 1) he takes the bike to the edge and over it with more regularity than almost anyone and this is where you would expect TC to be in operation more than anywhere else, and 2) he is well known for his non PC responses to questions asked in comparison to the everything is beautiful PC correct responses from most other riders.

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Ahh yes that make sense, Stoner takes the bike to the edge and over it more than anyone else, therefore his TC must be in use far less compared to all others???? Just to fill you in as you know doubt turned away and then blocked the memories, all of Stoner's crashes this year came form a loss of the front.



And Carmelo? WTF would he know about how much or how little TC the riders use, let alone how much the level from bike to bike and rider to rider differs, the man is heading up one of the worst governing bodies in world sport.....and commentators? Now there's a source you can bank on! I suggest you obtain some data from all of the top teams to prove your theories based on Casey's quotes



And whilst we are on these wild statements of yours, isn't there three other riders ahead of Stoner in the championship this year, as there was last. All Stoner has proven is that he doesn't know where the limit is. Fast yes, but consistently beaten by other riders 'finding the limit'(yes others can do it too!) and staying there-after all that's how you win races......



So we are onto Hypocrisy, well, I never stated that Casey's comments shouldn't be believed, what I did state is that your mindless assumptions which were deduced from his comments weren't to be believed.



I didn't want to use any comments in defense of Rossi at all, I hadn't heard any, as there are none, as he has been legally gagged by his current employer! Your the one who rather imaginatively said that Rossi stated something about the Ducati's front end.......Maybe you should pass it on to Yamaha's Legal team, I'm sure they would love to hear all about it!



Please enlighten us with the link to the official comments from Rossi on the Ducati which you referenced........

BarryMachine said:

So Talpa ..... do tell us how TC makes Casey faster

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Well its simple, Stoner just pins the throttle and the bike sorts it all out and makes him as fast as he is. Just ask Babel. Or for more evidence, just look at how Rossi could get on the same bike and do exactly the same thing Casey's been doing

J4rn0 said:

Why do you think he could not fix a wobble problem with Rossi? They had completely different issues than that. For all we know, next time at Sepang we could have a Ducati with its problems largely solved. I would wait before rushing to conclusions now, the risk of sounding arrogant is bigger for you right now, than for Burgess

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You seem to be confused. Burgess clearly implied that the riders other than Stoner on the Ducati were as slow as they are due to simple setup issues, and claimed that himself and Rossi could fix that very easily. He was wrong, in 2 days testing they couldn't get Rossi comfortable enough to get near the top ten.



I don't doubt that Rossi will be up front next seaon, i think we will see a large improvement at the next test. But like Preziozi said in his interviews, they are having to look at geometry and stiffness and things of that nature. In other words they are redesigning the chassis to make a bike Rossi can ride.

BarryMachine said:

Oh so insteadof getting a good idea of what he could do on the Duc. Rossi saw more benefit in just pottering around ........ all just to play mind games ............ well hell he must be pretty confident with the Duc. then! I hope they don't change it !!

Get real mate your opinion is really hard to find any justification for

Rossi was wasting time sandbagging ......

now I've heard everything.

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Not exactly sandbagging...but just focus on other things and the slow time just helped him (in my theory) as he could predicted it would.

If he was as fast as 99 or 27...and than in sepang slower, what would ppl think? What would he think? ..not good, not good...



Better to be slow at the tests or practises and suprise everyone on raceday...thats Vale.



Ducati is a beast and it will be Vale's beast soon

esco said:

Are you saying that because of this test this now proves that Rossi the 9 times champ is actually the 15th on the grid when it comes to adapting to a bike? Are you basing all your info on this 2 day test? Why not base it on his Carreer and previous years?

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Firstly - it was a tongue and cheek remark. Secondly - because Rossi didn't do any of that stuff on a Ducati - which if you

were paying attention - you would know by now - is the reason why this topic has such long legs.

chopperman said:

Showing his hand to soon. (again).

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No, he needed to show this much to get semi equality/precedence or whatever over puig/pedrosa. He is keeping the other 2 seconds up his sleeve .

Talpa said:

Ahh yes that make sense, Stoner takes the bike to the edge and over it more than anyone else, therefore his TC must be in use far less compared to all others???? Just to fill you in as you know doubt turned away and then blocked the memories, all of Stoner's crashes this year came form a loss of the front.



And Carmelo? WTF would he know about how much or how little TC the riders use, let alone how much the level from bike to bike and rider to rider differs, the man is heading up one of the worst governing bodies in world sport.....and commentators? Now there's a source you can bank on!

I suggest you obtain some data from all of the top teams to prove your theories based on Casey's quotes

And whilst we are on these wild statements of yours, isn't there three other riders ahead of Stoner in the championship this year, as there was last. All Stoner has proven is that he doesn't know where the limit is. Fast yes, but consistently beaten by other riders 'finding the limit'(yes others can do it too!) and staying there-after all that's how you win races......



So we are onto Hypocrisy, well, I never stated that Casey's comments shouldn't be believed, what I did state is that your mindless assumptions which were deduced from his comments weren't to be believed.



I didn't want to use any comments in defense of Rossi at all, I hadn't heard any, as there are none, as he has been legally gagged by his current employer! Your the one who rather imaginatively said that Rossi stated something about the Ducati's front end.......Maybe you should pass it on to Yamaha's Legal team, I'm sure they would love to hear all about it!



Please enlighten us with the link to the official comments from Rossi on the Ducati which you referenced........

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Ok so we take your word over the guy who owns the whole thing and those that are employed to pass professional comment on the sport. After all your qualifications speak for them self.



You did in fact say that Casey's comments couldn't be believed.



I did not say that Rossi had passed any opinion at all but it has been commented by those inside the garage that a front end redesign is required. But hey what does the mechanic who works on the bike know or the engineer who designed it. I will take your word over theirs from now on.



Please show me where I said that TC had anything to do with Stoner riding on the edge. I said that he is qualified to talk about his bike and MotoGP bikes in general because of this.



Unfortunately in your blind rage of defending he who does not know you exist, your irrationality taints every word you type. Rossi does not need you to defend him as he has the records that need no defence. They are in black and white. Your irrational behaviour is also black and white and out in the open for all to see. Do you notice how rare it is that anyone jumps on your band wagon. Even the Rossi fans leave you hanging out there on your own. I feel sorry for you as life must be so disappointing when you have such passion for someone and that passion has no chance of being reciprocated. I understand your need to strike out as it helps you feel close to your beloved. If it helps you then I am ok for you to strike out at me. I will consider it part of my charitable service to those less fortunate than me.

Tom said:

You seem to be confused. Burgess clearly implied that the riders other than Stoner on the Ducati were as slow as they are due to simple setup issues, and claimed that himself and Rossi could fix that very easily. He was wrong, in 2 days testing they couldn't get Rossi comfortable enough to get near the top ten.



I don't doubt that Rossi will be up front next seaon, i think we will see a large improvement at the next test. But like Preziozi said in his interviews, they are having to look at geometry and stiffness and things of that nature. In other words they are redesigning the chassis to make a bike Rossi can ride.

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Sorry again, you misread the statement. He never mentioned Stoner. He said they were wobbling because they were not able to use a stiff setup (which is the 80-seconds cure he indicated for the wobble).





Rossi's bike was not wobbling, so the 80-second cure worked. Now, you may say he was going slow, but note that 1.33.7 is the same time Rossi clocked in FP1 with his Yamaha, and as a race pace it would not have been that bad. Relatively crap compared to the other times in the tests, but still a racing pace, not like cruising around.

So let's sum up the results of the Valencia tests for Rossi and Ducati!



The rear end of the Ducati is beautifully set -- lots of grip. All of the three bikes Valentino tested had excellent rear traction, quite capable to manage the huge power surges of the desmo engine:









Whereas, the "problem" was with the front end - the two BIG front cylinders to which the front part of the frame is attached apparently induce too much vibration, so a partial redesign of the front frame is called for:









Let's hope they do not re-design it more than necessary

J4rn0...great examples/illustrations, it's all clear now!!!!!

J4rn0 said:

Sorry again, you misread the statement. He never mentioned Stoner. He said they were wobbling because they were not able to use a stiff setup (which is the 80-seconds cure he indicated for the wobble).





Rossi's bike was not wobbling, so the 80-second cure worked. Now, you may say he was going slow, but note that 1.33.7 is the same time Rossi clocked in FP1 with his Yamaha, and as a race pace it would not have been that bad. Relatively crap compared to the other times in the tests, but still a racing pace, not like cruising around.

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Oh i see what you've done, i think you have taken the quote far too litterally. I don't think JB was refering to the riders actually wobbling!! It's a figure of speach, commonly used to mean that the riders are tentative and have little confidence. I only mentioned Stoner because JB said 'lesser riders' and Stoner is definitely not that. So the way i've taken it, is that Rossi was still tentative, lacking confidence and slow. JB said that would not be the case, but like i said they'll get it fixed. Just not nearly as fast as he claimed.

notabikerther4useless said:

I know people say LOL....but honestly, I genuinely did laugh out loud. For a couple of minutes. The expression on Vale's face is perfect. And then I scrolled down to the next pic. .... I'm still chuckling as I type

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News is the best!

demingracer said:

As usual little respect for hayden. Little respect for him when he won the championship and little respect for him since he's joined ducati.Funny now that rossi is struggling with the bike everyone finally admits that the bike is junk. Well quess how bad it is if your the #2 rider and all the effort is being put into stoners bike leaving you with the leftovers. All year long i've been saying the engineers have done a bad job and now the rossi fans have jumped on the bandwagon.



I have faith in nicky and i think if he gets a decent bike he can run at the front. Hopefully he gets better treatment as a teamate with rossi than he did with stoner.

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I think hes been treated decent so far at Ducati. But the reality u point to is correct. Now imagine 10X worse at Honda post 05. Ive sAid this many times, perhaps seeing Rossi on Duc this reality may sink in. I contend Nicky has never been the #1 rider ever. If he had we'd no doubt see him in top 4 all the time.

povol said:

What jumps out when i see this list, is the names that are NOT on it. There is no Stoner, Lorenzo, or Pedrosa. This time around will be much tougher than 2004

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Didn't Rossi win 2 championships against them?

These young guns are also imo better than Biaggi,Gibernou, Hayden,...., but they still are behind Rossi on 1 to 1 battle and even in results.

Stoner has finished 5 seasons in motogp, and only finished once in 2007 in front of him, Even this year with Rossi's crash, Rossi finished in front of him.

Lorenzo, is 3 years, and lost two and won 1, Pedrosa has aslo finished 5 seasons in motogp and hasn't won a championsip, but he has finished 2 times in front of Rossi, though i,m sure he would love to changed that with a world championship like Horhay, and Casey.

Till now, i still see Rossi above them all, in both performance on track and results.

Tom said:

Oh i see what you've done, i think you have taken the quote far too litterally. I don't think JB was refering to the riders actually wobbling!!

It's a figure of speach, commonly used to mean that the riders are tentative and have little confidence. I only mentioned Stoner because JB said 'lesser riders' and Stoner is definitely not that. So the way i've taken it, is that Rossi was still tentative, lacking confidence and slow. JB said that would not be the case, but like i said they'll get it fixed. Just not nearly as fast as he claimed.

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Where did Rossi or Burgess claim they would fix everything fast?

J4rn0 said:

Where did Rossi or Burgess claim they would fix everything fast?

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They didn't claim they would fix everything fast.

VR: Hey Jeremy but... where's the frame?

JB: Who knows... I've looked everywhere!