I think that is a fair assesment, if you take any one of those riders motogp careers and compare it to Rossi over the same timescale Rossi has been better and achieved more. However you can also see that his advantage is getting smaller, his most recent world title was his hardest and this season he was 3rd of those 4 riders. That's what makes this such an exciting and fascinating time.
Valencia Tests.
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I think that is a fair assesment, if you take any one of those riders motogp careers and compare it to Rossi over the same timescale Rossi has been better and achieved more. However you can also see that his advantage is getting smaller, his most recent world title was his hardest and this season he was 3rd of those 4 riders. That's what makes this such an exciting and fascinating time.
I,m aware of this, that his advantage is getting smaller and smaller, but even so, he still is the main competition for them atm.
Of cource he is getting older and at the same time his rivals are getting stronger and more experienced, but we'r talking about these last few years racing along the young top gun's. I,m not even comparing his old records with them.
JB looks like he is getting younger, and try's to fcuk with someone's mind.
very nice pic.
Joined Feb 2007
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Tennessee
Good point, but
All 3 of them have beaten Rossi in points
Gibbers, Capirossi, and Biaggi never did. Thats why i say it will be harder, not impossible, but harder
Joined Jul 2006
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Texas
VR: Hey Jeremy but... where's the frame?
JB: Who knows... I've looked everywhere!
We're gonna Mind ....'m
No, he needed to show this much to get semi equality/precedence or whatever over puig/pedrosa. He is keeping the other 2 seconds up his sleeve.
imo casey is a very fast rider but could not develop a cold on a winter's day. He would rather ride the wheels off at a test and show the world he is fast then use this valuable test time to gain important information. This will show next season
Joined Oct 2006
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Your Mom's House
But he sure did imply it. Perhaps J4rno cant read between the lines? Burgess is good but this year uttered some very arrogant claims. The worst being his question of Casey integrity when he said Stone looks like hes already riding for Honda. I wonder if those words are ringing in his ears as he now presents the Ducati engineers with the Yamaha schematics he has in his back pocket.
Joined Oct 2007
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Tuscany, Italy
But he sure did imply it. Perhaps J4rno cant read between the lines? Burgess is good but this year uttered some very arrogant claims. The worst being his question of Casey integrity when he said Stone looks like hes already riding for Honda. I wonder if those words are ringing in his ears as he now presents the Ducati engineers with the Yamaha schematics he has in his back pocket.
You are the specialist in reading in between lines, Jum. You always ignore what is apparent and focus on the (according to you) hidden intentions, implications, sneaky devious subliminal meanings
Take things at face value now and then, for a change. It's not guaranteed that you projections into other people's minds are always correct
Of course he can't, he took the post as literal word for word. Rossi's Ducati didn't actually wobble around the circuit, job done
You hope. I said casey showed his hand at this test in 08-09? when he blitzed the field. All he did was give his competitors info as to how fast he was. He then went on to lose the championships. Rossi is not interested in posting mega fast lap time's at a test where he is on a new bike. He is after information to give to the engineers in how to develop the bike into a winning package.
imo casey is a very fast rider but could not develop a cold on a winter's day. He would rather ride the wheels off at a test and show the world he is fast then use this valuable test time to gain important information. This will show next season
I was serious about the part concerning pedrosa and puig, he did need to perform well in this test to lend weight to his argument towards support from hrc, particularly if his requirements are peculiar, or different from dani's and dovi's anyway which on precedent at ducati they may well be.
I certainly have not been one of those saying rossi has now suddenly transformed into a rider 1 1/2 seconds per lap slower than nicky hayden, and agree that pushing hard and risking aggravating his injury just to post a time would not have been smart, and he is as smart as any rider in history. I do agree with j4rno that he did not immediately gel with the bike as it is; if he had done so and could have set a reasonably fast time easily I think he would have done so. I think he made a fairly rapid assessment that the bike needs change, if it is to suit him at least, and proceeded accordingly. Stoner's method of riding the current bike at a pace competitive for race wins seems to involve a 50% dnf rate, a percentage I would imagine is not acceptable to valentino.
The issue as I see it and have been saying for a while is whether valentino's and jb's method will be applicable to a carbon fibre essentially chassis -less ducati; there is very adequate evidence for its efficacy with an aluminium twin spar chassis, but stunning as the rapidity and scale of the turn-around of the yamaha was in 2004 the chassis design was essentially similar to that of the honda.
Joined Aug 2007
11K Posts | 3K+
Pomona NY
You hope. I said casey showed his hand at this test in 08-09? when he blitzed the field. All he did was give his competitors info as to how fast he was. He then went on to lose the championships. Rossi is not interested in posting mega fast lap time's at a test where he is on a new bike. He is after information to give to the engineers in how to develop the bike into a winning package.
imo casey is a very fast rider but could not develop a cold on a winter's day. He would rather ride the wheels off at a test and show the world he is fast then use this valuable test time to gain important information. This will show next season
Yeah that's right - we all know that Rossi is humble and un-showy and is never the kind of guy to strut his stuff.
You hope.
Yeah that's right - we all know that Rossi is humble and un-showy and is never the kind of guy to strut his stuff.
You hope.
Hater
Joined Aug 2007
11K Posts | 3K+
Pomona NY
I've pondered that before. Between Stoner and all the people at Ducati they had four years to resolve any loss of
communication due to subtlety of language. My gut feeling is that the issue preventing Ducati from making a more user friendly machine, has more to do with their unwillingness to seriously create a Yama-cati precisely because it would devalue their whole
different-from-the-rest design philosophy. Look at the bike that BMW created for WSBK. It is basically a great Jap-Bike
clone and was competitive right out of the box - because they were willing to admit that nothing they'd built before using
the trademark BMW design philosophy would ever be truly competitive in a field of bikes that had be developed and
refined over a period of decades with an eye towards winning races. Ducati's uniqueness is their marque feature, what makes
them stand out from the pack. I speculate that down in the hole where the real core of engineers work to design the Duc
there is stubborn resistance to the idea of altering their design philosophy because egos are too tied up with technology
that the public identifies with; the one that defines the Ducati brand. That technology is their baby and I'm guessing the idea of
giving their scion the boot in favor of one with no epicantic fold (ie: one with slanty eyes) is a hard one to swallow. Half my family is from Naples and I can tell you... ....... Italians are nothing if not stubborn.
If i recall corectly one of the benefits of the carbon chassis is the control the designers have over its felxing properties and the repeatability of a particular specification in terms of manufacture. Once JB and Rossi give their feedback (renowned for its accuracy) the Ducati engineers should be able to produce a chassis to the necessary specification.
+1
I agree, Ducati definitely seem to have that elitist attitude that has arguably hindered them in developing a good all around race bike. And like said before, Casey was able to ride it anyway and bring it to a championship, so why really listen to him and his concerns? Either that, or the engineers are incapable of producing parts that work.
If Ducati, with the help from JB and Rossi, are able to produce a reliable and competitive bike for Vale and Hayden (and for anyone riding Ducati), I think that could be considered be an even bigger triumph for them (Val/JB) than the Honda/Yam switch.
How will the distribution of the redesigned bike work?
Are the satellite riders currently just riding last years bikes to tide them over to perhaps the last test when the redesigned bike has been tested again by Rossi and Hayden and refined further?
Then at the last test 12 new bikes turn up all reasonably similar as per previous years so the satellite guys start the year with the new more rider friendly Ducati? Or do they get a new bike at some stage in the season?
Are the satellite riders currently just riding last years bikes to tide them over to perhaps the last test when the redesigned bike has been tested again by Rossi and Hayden and refined further?
Then at the last test 12 new bikes turn up all reasonably similar as per previous years so the satellite guys start the year with the new more rider friendly Ducati? Or do they get a new bike at some stage in the season?
Joined Aug 2007
11K Posts | 3K+
Pomona NY
As regards Ducati's street bikes - they've been getting by primarily on stylishness and exclusivity
and high-price/snob appeal for decades. The Ducatis of the '70s and 80's were really awful bikes
but the same breed of rider who would buy incredibly unreliable old Brit bikes because they had
that whole cult-appeal, regardless of their poor electronics and .... brakes - made Ducati a
viable company. It's only in the last 15 years or so that they've been really producing street
bikes that were truly head to head with the much cheaper Jap bikes. And they're still friggin'
unreliable as hell. It has been I think, a painful and expensive realization for the Ducati engineers
to arrive at, ie: they have to truly match the technological brilliance of the Japanese. Doing this
using Ducati's long-standing design philosophy has been a major fail all in all. Stoner was a
brilliant band-aid for a while - but now they need to get down to some real surgery.
and high-price/snob appeal for decades. The Ducatis of the '70s and 80's were really awful bikes
but the same breed of rider who would buy incredibly unreliable old Brit bikes because they had
that whole cult-appeal, regardless of their poor electronics and .... brakes - made Ducati a
viable company. It's only in the last 15 years or so that they've been really producing street
bikes that were truly head to head with the much cheaper Jap bikes. And they're still friggin'
unreliable as hell. It has been I think, a painful and expensive realization for the Ducati engineers
to arrive at, ie: they have to truly match the technological brilliance of the Japanese. Doing this
using Ducati's long-standing design philosophy has been a major fail all in all. Stoner was a
brilliant band-aid for a while - but now they need to get down to some real surgery.
Joined Feb 2007
11K Posts | 2K+
Tennessee
Kind of like dropping out of WSBK because they cant bring themselves to give up on the VTwin and build a V4 like Aprilia did. That is stubborn. They have a V4 that would work just fine, but i guess at 75K they have hard time meeting the sales figures to make the bike eligible.
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